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Author Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs  (Read 2696042 times)
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Totem22
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June 18, 2014, 11:59:27 AM
 #201

Distribute the unclaimed stakes among all stakeholders imo.
 This will increase the value of every stake including the devs. Its the only fair way to do it and will (should) make everyone happy.

obvious and easy solution fits everybody

Community Committee for development please Grin Everyone should discuss the possible candidates after the open Alpha Grin Grin Core team will hold the unclaimed fund in trust for claim until V1 blockchain.

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kattokassinen
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June 18, 2014, 12:01:30 PM
 #202

My thoughts about the unclaimed stakes:

As NEM has already launched in practice via NXT AE, stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE. The auction of around 150 stakes for BTC can be proceeded with, as this was known or should have been known by the buyers of NEM stake in NXT AE.

As such, I am suggesting that the unclaimed stakes would be distributed between all stakeholders who claim their stake prior the deadline. I remember that it was highlighted that 1 million NEM would be the minimum, therefore there is no barrier to issue more than 1 million NEM per stake. This would also be fair to the stakeholders, and better for the community. I think it's in NEM's best interest to have a strong community. However, I also understand that some of the promotion, developing etc. must be centrally controlled in the beginning, but shouldn't 15% of NEM (+BTC and NXT collected from the auction and registration) be enough for this purpose already?

For the above reasons I would like the developers of NEM to make a decision to distribute the unclaimed stakes between stakeholders. The sooner you decide, the better for NEM, as you would eliminate some of the uncertainty surrounding NEM.
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June 18, 2014, 12:24:26 PM
 #203

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

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June 18, 2014, 12:26:48 PM
 #204

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...

Totem22
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June 18, 2014, 12:33:16 PM
 #205

"NEM has not even launched" is a false claim.

Total FUD.
U write like NEM is already launched. It is NOT.
 

Correct. NEM will be launched at the genesis block. Before that stakeholders buy/sell their stake at their own discretion.

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kattokassinen
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June 18, 2014, 12:34:53 PM
 #206

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...
What I meant was that the value of the stake would naturally decrease if the unclaimed ones would be re-distributed. In my opinion that would be unfair for the ones who have bought their stakes from NXT AE as this would be unanticipated move. The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

And gimre please don't make such accusations even though I don't have many posts. Writing in a foreign language takes great energy from me, and have chosen to stay as "a reader" on these forums. Also, you can check that I haven't claimed my stake as nxt asset nor have I any plans to do so.
patmast3r
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June 18, 2014, 12:37:35 PM
 #207

... The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

Well afaik the auction is the only way we were planing to spread it further. So there really shouldn't be a problem right ?

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June 18, 2014, 12:40:14 PM
 #208

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...
What I meant was that the value of the stake would naturally decrease if the unclaimed ones would be re-distributed. In my opinion that would be unfair for the ones who have bought their stakes from NXT AE as this would be unanticipated move. The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

And gimre please don't make such accusations even though I don't have many posts. Writing in a foreign language takes great energy from me, and have chosen to stay as "a reader" on these forums. Also, you can check that I haven't claimed my stake as nxt asset nor have I any plans to do so.

That´s the point.

If you sell them, you just take money from the ones who decided to not sell their stake or even buy more, and put in developers pocket or in a developer fund. And there is already a developer fund.

Please state a decision as soon as possible.

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Momimaus
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June 18, 2014, 12:42:12 PM
 #209

... The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

Well afaik the auction is the only way we were planing to spread it further. So there really shouldn't be a problem right ?

The auction stakes are not the point.
But even with them it would have been smarter if the auction would have been finished before the token were issued on NXT ae.
Lack of a longterm plan, sorry nothing else.

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June 18, 2014, 12:43:13 PM
 #210

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...
What I meant was that the value of the stake would naturally decrease if the unclaimed ones would be re-distributed. In my opinion that would be unfair for the ones who have bought their stakes from NXT AE as this would be unanticipated move. The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

And gimre please don't make such accusations even though I don't have many posts. Writing in a foreign language takes great energy from me, and have chosen to stay as "a reader" on these forums. Also, you can check that I haven't claimed my stake as nxt asset nor have I any plans to do so.

That´s the point.

If you sell them, you just take money from the ones who decided to not sell their stake or even buy more, and put in developers pocket or in a developer fund. And there is already a developer fund.

Please state a decision as soon as possible.

The auction was announced before the Assets on the NXT AE. Therefore everyone knew that some more stakes will be distributed.
Ans stop saying everything goes into devs pocket.

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June 18, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
 #211



My points are pretty clear,. (...) Nxt was launched just 2 months after IPO and 25% of people never came back to claim their coins. Given much longer delay, this number could be even higher, but lets assume it's 25%



Why do you think 10% plus all the BTC isn't enough for future development? Nxt started with 21 BTC and unclaimed nxt equaled to 10 million ( which is only 1% of total nxt) .


What's wrong with you?


Nothing is wrong with me. Out of 100, 73 came back to claim their stake, so 25%+ never showed up. The second statement is correct too as those 25% had contributed BTC that were worth 1% of Nxt which was about 10 million Nxt. That doesn't change the fact that 25% of people never showed up to claim the coins. Since in Nem every stake is equal, if 25% don't show up that would be 750 million nem




We have to take that 25% number with a bit of skepticism.  There was no audit, and it is suspiciously high.  This points to sock puppets of BCnext, knowing that the money would revert back to "development".  

Also, some did come back, I think it was TaiZen who invested and then lost his password (Its hard to remember for sure).  I am sure he tried like crazy to get back in, but with those pass phrases, it was very tricky and a new type of login.  

I know every investment I make gets marked and I check on it regularly.  I am sure not all people are as strict as me, but some have to be even more stricter.  It seems pretty strange and sketchy that 25% didn't come back.  


--------------

That said, I am all for just burning the unclaimed stakes.  I mean really, they don't belong to the devs, and they don't belong to the NEMsters, they belong to the people that paid for them.  To me, the fair thing to do is promise to give the NEMsters their 1 mill, and give the DEVs their stated share and anybody that doesn't claim has their NEM destroyed. 
kattokassinen
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June 18, 2014, 12:51:22 PM
 #212

The auction was announced before the Assets on the NXT AE. Therefore everyone knew that some more stakes will be distributed.
Ans stop saying everything goes into devs pocket.
There's no problem about the auction of the 150 stakes for BTC. It was properly announced before the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

The thing is that as NEM has already practically launched on NXT AE, you can't anymore do whatever you like. I can only see two fair (or three) schemes regarding the unclaimed stakes:

- Destroy the unclaimed coins
- Distribute the unclaimed coins equally between stakeholders
- (Distribute the unclaimed coins equally in portions between stakeholders, developers and developing funds)

Just to make sure we are talking about the same subject, I am talking about the stakes that will be left unclaimed after you have finished distributing NEM. I am OK with the auction of the around 150 stakes for BTC.
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June 18, 2014, 12:56:51 PM
 #213

The auction was announced before the Assets on the NXT AE. Therefore everyone knew that some more stakes will be distributed.
Ans stop saying everything goes into devs pocket.
There's no problem about the auction of the 150 stakes for BTC. It was properly announced before the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

The thing is that as NEM has already practically launched on NXT AE, you can't anymore do whatever you like. I can only see two fair (or three) schemes regarding the unclaimed stakes:

- Destroy the unclaimed coins
- Distribute the unclaimed coins equally between stakeholders
- (Distribute the unclaimed coins equally in portions between stakeholders, developers and developing funds)

Just to make sure we are talking about the same subject, I am talking about the stakes that will be left unclaimed after you have finished distributing NEM. I am OK with the auction of the around 150 stakes for BTC.


Well then we were talking about 2 different things.
What we'll do with the "leftovers" is yet undecided but there is a heavy discussion going on as we see that it's important to the community to have a decision here.

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June 18, 2014, 01:03:20 PM
 #214

Destroy the "leftover" coins

INVALID BBCODE: close of unopened tag in table (1)
Totem22
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June 18, 2014, 01:06:04 PM
 #215

There are three choices for "unclaimed coins ":

1. Distribute proportionally to all current stakeholders.

2. Destroy all the coin.

3. Form a community committee to manage the coins aka Nxt's committee style.

I am for 3. Nxt's committee has been very effective. Choice 3 gives an incentive for NEMsters to do good things for NEM.  Grin

NEM: TC2L3G2VREUAZI7SE5WJW7TM6B3DBBKL4DJCO6AA
patmast3r
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June 18, 2014, 01:07:31 PM
 #216

There are three choices for "unclaimed coins ":

1. Distribute proportionally to all current stakeholders.

2. Destroy all the coin.

3. Form a community committee to manage the coins aka Nxt's committee style.

I am for 3. Nxt's committee has been very effective. Choice 3 gives an incentive for NEMsters to do good things for NEM.  Grin

I think we should have such a committee not only for the unclaimed stakes but in general. The community is supposed to have more power over what happens after V1.

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June 18, 2014, 01:11:15 PM
 #217

[...] Out of 100, 73 came back to claim their stake, so 25%+ never showed up. The second statement is correct too as those 25% had contributed BTC that were worth 1% of Nxt which was about 10 million Nxt. That doesn't change the fact that 25% of people never showed up to claim the coins. Since in Nem every stake is equal, if 25% don't show up that would be 750 million nem

Please don't count the chickens before they're hatched. Nxt was one of the first coins (indeed maybe the first coin) to do a fund raising. That's probably why 25% never showed up when Nxt finally was released. Now that there already were a lot of fund raisings people are more used to it so I doubt that it will be 25% in our case. But I don't know...and you don't know as well.
We are already discussing the issue internally. But due the fact that the core team is spread across different time zones and not everyone has time to discuss the topic on every day, we need a few days to come to a conclusion. It would be kind of you to give us some more time to prepare a statement before coming up with the issue again.

Nothing Else Matters
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NXT: 11095639652683007953
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June 18, 2014, 01:11:55 PM
 #218

no need to destroy them, rather make one side happy, than no one.

devs motivated by massive amount of NEM - I like it.

members motivated by bigger amount of NEM - I like it.

No one is motivated - I dont like it.
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June 18, 2014, 01:13:17 PM
 #219

no need to destroy them, rather make one side happy, than no one.

devs motivated by massive amount of NEM - I like it.

members motivated by bigger amount of NEM - I like it.

No one is motivated - I dont like it.

by destroying the coins the rest of them will become more valuable as they are more rare (in theory).
So everyone could still be happy Smiley

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June 18, 2014, 01:15:28 PM
 #220

6 days till alpha!!  Grin
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