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Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805719 times)
cypherdoc
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May 06, 2015, 07:02:03 AM
 #23501

marcus, the above poll results and the general tenor of support on reddit for Gavin's proposal clearly indicates that it is you who doesn't get it.

no, you. don't get it.

you are so self-important you rely on a few dozen yes-men to back you up. and reddit.

There you go again. They're not backing me up: they've indicated support for Gavin's proposal. Better to point to something objective in the poll and on reddit than simply sling mud like you're doing. But that's what you're good at; I understand.
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cypherdoc
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May 06, 2015, 07:07:29 AM
 #23502

marcus, the above poll results and the general tenor of support on reddit for Gavin's proposal clearly indicates that it is you who doesn't get it.

no, you. don't get it.

you are so self-important you rely on a few dozen yes-men to back you up. and reddit.

Talk about not getting it. Do you realize you just insulted the intelligence of those very men you dare speak of?

I can see you've taken Dale Carnegies course on how to make friends and influence people.
lunarboy
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May 06, 2015, 08:48:51 AM
 #23503

Gentlemen a time out would be appreciated. It's getting a little warm in here.  Roll Eyes



Can someone please point me to the specific details of this 20Mb blocksize increase, other than the http://gavinandresen.ninja/time-to-roll-out-bigger-blocks (not many details here)

I'm trying to find out if this is different to the last gavin update, where the rolling increase was proposed 20mb first and X% per increment after. Or if this new proposal is a different hacked increase to 20mb, thus requiring another hard fork in the future should this new limit need changing?

thanks
bambou
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May 06, 2015, 09:00:50 AM
 #23504

Je suis Marcus. Thx for carrying with this Matter. Going back to github now.

Non inultus premor
justusranvier
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May 06, 2015, 10:51:01 AM
 #23505

Your opinion is mostly worthless at this point, so I'm not sure why you create so much noise instead of solutions?

Why do you post comments on github commits, are you making code commits? Seems pretentious.
What evidence exists to show that you're less pretensions and create more solutions vs noise than cypherdoc?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34prd6/i_made_a_3d_printed_stainless_steel_bitcoin/cqy2eoc
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34zj70/fincen_fines_ripple_labs_inc_in_first_civil/cqzta5c

I took the time to design a countermeasure to one form of attack on the network and then put up fifteen bitcoins as a bounty to fund a proof of concept.

What have you done to make the network safer recently?
hdbuck
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May 06, 2015, 11:03:48 AM
 #23506

Your opinion is mostly worthless at this point, so I'm not sure why you create so much noise instead of solutions?

Why do you post comments on github commits, are you making code commits? Seems pretentious.
What evidence exists to show that you're less pretensions and create more solutions vs noise than cypherdoc?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34prd6/i_made_a_3d_printed_stainless_steel_bitcoin/cqy2eoc
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34zj70/fincen_fines_ripple_labs_inc_in_first_civil/cqzta5c

I took the time to design a countermeasure to one form of attack on the network and then put up fifteen bitcoins as a bounty to fund a proof of concept.

What have you done to make the network safer recently?

Really? Only "contributors" have the right to raise concern now?

This thread is getting over pompous.
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May 06, 2015, 12:08:04 PM
 #23507

Really? Only "contributors" have the right to raise concern now?

This thread is getting over pompous.
Just to be clear - will you please identify who first brought that argument into the thread?
justusranvier
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May 06, 2015, 02:35:27 PM
 #23508

Speaking of things that make the network stronger, davec is doing great work:

https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd/pull/425

Quote
This pull request contains fixes from the results of a thorough audit of txscript to find any cases of script evaluation which doesn't match the required consensus behavior. These conditions are fairly obscure and highly unlikely to happen in any real scripts, but they could have nevertheless been used by a clever attacker with malicious intent to cause a fork.

Test cases which exercise these conditions have been added to the reference tests and will contributed upstream to improve the quality for the entire ecosystem.
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May 06, 2015, 02:54:31 PM
 #23509

marcus, the above poll results and the general tenor of support on reddit for Gavin's proposal clearly indicates that it is you who doesn't get it.

no, you. don't get it.

you are so self-important you rely on a few dozen yes-men to back you up. and reddit.

I'm no yes man, I don't agree on a lot of cypher's positions, in fact I hold some opposing opinions in equal or higher regard.

marcus_of_augustus is one although I  don't agree with him on SC, or the fact that Devs should just be respected for their contributions, Devs had the opportunity just because they were willing to make the sacrifices that don't make them authorities. Some may understand code but lack experience to understand the big picture.

Cypher is open to learning and has deep understanding he has earned his respect. I don't like his character assassination either but it's fine with me it's not like it is unfair it's just we've been conditioned to be nice even to stupidity.

This video illustrates the difference between knowledge and understanding. nullc understands programing has knowledge about economics, he has made false accusations and uses his authority to back them up. https://youtu.be/MFzDaBzBlL0


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
msin
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May 06, 2015, 03:05:22 PM
 #23510

coinbase looks to me like the next mt. gox waiting to happen ... can't see why you guys always rally behind centralised organisations for your self-affirmation. coinbase will be hacked or corrupted in some way, will you be singing their praises for what that brings?

That's a lazy assumption. It's naive to think that BTC can be successful without help from "centralized" organizations. Coinbase is far more secure and intelligent than MTGox, it's not an anonymous international exchange.  They've also done far more than anyone here to help spread the adoption of BTC.  I can't see why you assume that a Bitcoin business is bad for Bitcoin.
bambou
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May 06, 2015, 03:16:52 PM
 #23511

coinbase looks to me like the next mt. gox waiting to happen ... can't see why you guys always rally behind centralised organisations for your self-affirmation. coinbase will be hacked or corrupted in some way, will you be singing their praises for what that brings?

That's a lazy assumption. It's naive to think that BTC can be successful without help from "centralized" organizations. Coinbase is far more secure and intelligent than MTGox, it's not an anonymous international exchange.  They've also done far more than anyone here to help spread the adoption of BTC.  I can't see why you assume that a Bitcoin business is bad for Bitcoin.

Mtgox was legit until US special agent Carl Mark Force froze its US assets.

Coinbase, with the support of The Bank, and tens of millions in freshly printed money invested should be doing ok.
But they'll sell you to USG. A la canibalistic US corporative centralization. Again and again.

No wonder they'll follow gavin anytime, anywhere.. Roll Eyes

Non inultus premor
cypherdoc
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May 06, 2015, 03:21:45 PM
 #23512

you know what i'm thinking, right?

cypherdoc
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May 06, 2015, 03:23:21 PM
 #23513

getting worse:

cypherdoc
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May 06, 2015, 03:44:12 PM
 #23514

more Gavin:

http://gavinandresen.ninja/big-blocks-and-tor
Adrian-x
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May 06, 2015, 03:59:48 PM
 #23515


I haven't read all his bog posts but he is showing signs of understand when it comes to engaging the community.

I can only imagine all these posts were written by taking feedback from lengthy consultations and he planned the release to capture all the fragmented interests in the Bitcoin community one buy one. Leaving specific interests to fight fires as he moves into virgin territory to start a new blaze.

I take my hat off to him he is creative and that's his biggest assets.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
justusranvier
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May 06, 2015, 04:02:28 PM
 #23516

Gloves starting to come off already. Suppose it was inevitable.

Quote
I think I first heard this objection to a larger maximum block size from Peter Todd, Chief Scientist of ViaCoin
cypherdoc
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May 06, 2015, 04:13:27 PM
 #23517


I haven't read all his bog posts but he is showing signs of understand when it comes to engaging the community.

I can only imagine all these posts were written by taking feedback from lengthy consultations and he planned the release to capture all the fragmented interests in the Bitcoin community one buy one. Leaving specific interests to fight fires as he moves into virgin territory to start a new blaze.

I take my hat off to him he is creative and that's his biggest assets.

i put this video up last month where Gavin clearly telegraphs what is happening now.  he said he might have to throw his weight around which is what he is now doing.  and he has the credibility to do so.  but you have to back up around 2y to understand why he's doing this.  my conspiratorial mind says this is when gmax first hatched the idea of Blockstream and started working on gathering up most of the other core devs into the scheme.  since that time, nothing substantial has gotten done around the core protocol as solex pointed out above. i say it's b/c Blockstream stands to make billions if tx's are forced off MC to SC's.  it's also the time when gmax started hitting Reddit and the forum about the SC idea.  while Gavin has always been respectful and even slightly positive about SC's, i don't think he's fully on board with the idea and i've pointed out subtle examples of such.  and for good reasons as i, and you, have tried to articulate in many settings.  but my point is, this is the setting around which his blog posts are occurring;  it's now time to open up Bitcoin to the masses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIafZXRDH7w
hdbuck
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May 06, 2015, 04:20:10 PM
 #23518


I haven't read all his bog posts but he is showing signs of understand when it comes to engaging the community.

I can only imagine all these posts were written by taking feedback from lengthy consultations and he planned the release to capture all the fragmented interests in the Bitcoin community one buy one. Leaving specific interests to fight fires as he moves into virgin territory to start a new blaze.

I take my hat off to him he is creative and that's his biggest assets.

i put this video up last month where Gavin clearly telegraphs what is happening now.  he said he might have to throw his weight around which is what he is now doing.  and he has the credibility to do so.  but you have to back up around 2y to understand why he's doing this.  my conspiratorial mind says this is when gmax first hatched the idea of Blockstream and started working on gathering up most of the other core devs into the scheme.  since that time, nothing substantial has gotten done around the core protocol as solex pointed out above. i say it's b/c Blockstream stands to make billions if tx's are forced off MC to SC's.  it's also the time when gmax started hitting Reddit and the forum about the SC idea.  while Gavin has always been respectful and even slightly positive about SC's, i don't think he's fully on board with the idea and i've pointed out subtle examples of such.  and for good reasons as i, and you, have tried to articulate in many settings.  but my point is, this is the setting around which his blog posts are occurring;  it's now time to open up Bitcoin to the masses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIafZXRDH7w



i fail to see what is preventing "the masses" to adopt bitcoin now.

How hard forking bitcoin would change this Huh
rocks
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May 06, 2015, 04:53:16 PM
 #23519

Re: The centralization discussion

I think it is important to remember that the most important aspect of bitcoin that needs to remain decentralized is mining (not pools), and that block size has no impact on miners since they already operate through pools.

For bitcoin to succeed, it needs to be used and managed directly by individuals. Not through 3rd party services. If bitcoin is primarily used through 3rd parties it will go the way of gold and eventually be co-opted and destroyed.

For bitcoin to be used directly P2P nodes need to be able to scale to much higher transaction throughput than VISA does today and maintain a massive history. I do not believe this is possible in a fully distributed manner. It will require centralization & specialization to the point where even companies such as coinbase may not maintain their own nodes but subscribe to node services run as cloud services.

But this is OK as long as mining stays distributed and there are some small number of public service nodes that monitor the full history and people trust to flag issues (think an MIT node, an EFF node, an Isle of Mann node, etc).

The distributed security mechanism of bitcoin (i.e. mining) was really the novel invention satoshi came up with. This distributed security is what bitcoin is. As long as it remains distributed we are OK. The other aspects (i.e. nodes) probably need to become more centralized if we want bitcoin to be used directly at a massive global scale.

cypherdoc
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May 06, 2015, 05:07:09 PM
 #23520


I haven't read all his bog posts but he is showing signs of understand when it comes to engaging the community.

I can only imagine all these posts were written by taking feedback from lengthy consultations and he planned the release to capture all the fragmented interests in the Bitcoin community one buy one. Leaving specific interests to fight fires as he moves into virgin territory to start a new blaze.

I take my hat off to him he is creative and that's his biggest assets.

i put this video up last month where Gavin clearly telegraphs what is happening now.  he said he might have to throw his weight around which is what he is now doing.  and he has the credibility to do so.  but you have to back up around 2y to understand why he's doing this.  my conspiratorial mind says this is when gmax first hatched the idea of Blockstream and started working on gathering up most of the other core devs into the scheme.  since that time, nothing substantial has gotten done around the core protocol as solex pointed out above. i say it's b/c Blockstream stands to make billions if tx's are forced off MC to SC's.  it's also the time when gmax started hitting Reddit and the forum about the SC idea.  while Gavin has always been respectful and even slightly positive about SC's, i don't think he's fully on board with the idea and i've pointed out subtle examples of such.  and for good reasons as i, and you, have tried to articulate in many settings.  but my point is, this is the setting around which his blog posts are occurring;  it's now time to open up Bitcoin to the masses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIafZXRDH7w



i fail to see what is preventing "the masses" to adopt bitcoin now.

How hard forking bitcoin would change this Huh

my sense is that major financial institutions and payment processors understand that Bitcoin is not scalable at 1MB.  therefore, they don't feel particularly threatened; yet.  this leads to investors large and small similarly being skeptical.  by lifting the limit, or by taking a baby step to 20MB, suddenly Bitcoin can be shown to scale.  once that realization kicks in, i suspect you will see a flood of investor capital into the coin itself, driving the price up, and subsequently encouraging an entirely new round of investment in merchant providers and mining companies.
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