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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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brg444
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April 23, 2015, 03:14:42 PM
 #23001

Cypherdoc, seeing as you were so much against 3 core developers working under the same hood at Blockstream do you have any comments about Gavin & co. setting up shop in NSA's antechamber working under a previous White House senior advisor?

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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April 23, 2015, 03:15:19 PM
 #23002

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Total internet advertising spend cannot justify outsized valuations of social media products that derive revenue from advertising.

We actually can't be certain about that statement until we know what percent of the money that pays for internet advertising originated in the intelligence agency budgets.
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April 23, 2015, 03:39:34 PM
 #23003

Cypherdoc, seeing as you were so much against 3 core developers working under the same hood at Blockstream do you have any comments about Gavin & co. setting up shop in NSA's antechamber working under a previous White House senior advisor?

i see it as a different situation.

Blockstream is a for-profit started by gmax himself in which they have equity shares which stand to appreciate enormously if SC's are successful and have specifically solicited numerous deep pocketed investors, many of whom have been anti-Bitcoin historically.  not only that, i specifically have admitted to having suspicions about gmax and Luke Jr's political views and shown examples of how they have mishandled community issues in the past.  plus, i don't like the entire concept of SC's in general as i don't believe moving BTC to a scBTC is a good economic idea for several reasons especially in regards to disrupting an equilibrium balanced mining industry.

as far as Gavin, Wlad, & Cory are concerned, they all were under the BF's roof all along before.  they have just moved over to MIT now which in theory is not a for profit afaik and doesn't exist for political reasons.  i'm only now getting a sense from some of you about concerns regarding MIT's past behaviors.  all i know about Aaron Swartz is that they didn't support him in his gvt struggles, is that right?  i think he was attacking/releasing some of their paywall informational archives, wasn't he?  if that's the case, then it seems understandable that their would be some tension btwn them.

i read Joi Ito's statement on the Media Labs intention and so far we should give him the benefit of the doubt.  of course, time will tell.  i did read that article this morning about Forde.  he's definitely someone worth keeping an eye on.  i would not like it if he ends up trying to steer core dev direction to a significant degree away from our ideal goals that we've espoused ad nauseum here in this thread.  one thing that did occur to me is that Gavin, et al won't be moving to MIT under the direct roof of the Media Lab, i'm sure.  they will continue to work remotely which helps shield them to a degree.  but yeah, accepting pay can be influential for sure.  somehow though, from what i've seen of MIT's overall contributions to tech, they seem to have libertarian leanings supportive of the Bitcoin culture and open source.  and the fact that it is a research institution is comforting.  do you have any evidence that it is an NSA "antechamber"?

tl;dr:  i don't see it as a problem right now; in fact, i see it as a positive that those 3 are going to continue to be paid.  but yeah, we have to keep an eye out.
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April 23, 2015, 03:52:45 PM
 #23004

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Total internet advertising spend cannot justify outsized valuations of social media products that derive revenue from advertising.

We actually can't be certain about that statement until we know what percent of the money that pays for internet advertising originated in the intelligence agency budgets.

Yes good point, when I take off my tinfoil hat and my rose coloured glasses. It looks like the secret owners of the old media giants are now renting a more effective tool, and paying for it with printed money.

We can own this tool and need to use it more effectively

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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April 23, 2015, 05:08:37 PM
 #23005

"One division at Deutsche Bank had a culture of generating profits without proper regard to the integrity of the market. This wasn't limited to a few individuals but, on certain desks, it appeared deeply ingrained."

"Deutsche Bank's failings were compounded by them repeatedly misleading us. The bank took far too long to produce vital documents and it moved far too slowly to fix relevant systems and controls," she said.

The FCA said that in one instance, Deutsche in error destroyed 482 tapes of telephone calls that should have been kept. "Deutsche Bank also provided inaccurate information to the regulator about whether other records existed," the FCA said.

The misconduct involved at least 29 Deutsche Bank individuals, including managers and traders, mainly based in London but also in Frankfurt, Tokyo and New York. It took place between 2005 and 2009."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32430710
brg444
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April 23, 2015, 05:46:42 PM
 #23006


as far as Gavin, Wlad, & Cory are concerned, they all were under the BF's roof all along before.  they have just moved over to MIT now which in theory is not a for profit afaik and doesn't exist for political reasons.  i'm only now getting a sense from some of you about concerns regarding MIT's past behaviors.  all i know about Aaron Swartz is that they didn't support him in his gvt struggles, is that right?  i think he was attacking/releasing some of their paywall informational archives, wasn't he?  if that's the case, then it seems understandable that their would be some tension btwn them.

i read Joi Ito's statement on the Media Labs intention and so far we should give him the benefit of the doubt.  of course, time will tell.  i did read that article this morning about Forde.  he's definitely someone worth keeping an eye on.  i would not like it if he ends up trying to steer core dev direction to a significant degree away from our ideal goals that we've espoused ad nauseum here in this thread.  one thing that did occur to me is that Gavin, et al won't be moving to MIT under the direct roof of the Media Lab, i'm sure.  they will continue to work remotely which helps shield them to a degree.  but yeah, accepting pay can be influential for sure.  somehow though, from what i've seen of MIT's overall contributions to tech, they seem to have libertarian leanings supportive of the Bitcoin culture and open source.  and the fact that it is a research institution is comforting.  do you have any evidence that it is an NSA "antechamber"?

tl;dr:  i don't see it as a problem right now; in fact, i see it as a positive that those 3 are going to continue to be paid.  but yeah, we have to keep an eye out.

About Aaron Swartz see here. :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXr-2hwTk58

tl;dr not only did they not support him, they supported the gvt with evidences and complicity in the prosecution of a victimless crime.

MIT may not "exist" for political reasons but like most every institutions in the united states are now rotten with government agents and politically captured by potato science "research" funding.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/08/08/leak_case_spotlights_an_mit_divide/

I mean, what else could have caused this much damage to a once great institution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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April 23, 2015, 05:59:06 PM
 #23007


as far as Gavin, Wlad, & Cory are concerned, they all were under the BF's roof all along before.  they have just moved over to MIT now which in theory is not a for profit afaik and doesn't exist for political reasons.  i'm only now getting a sense from some of you about concerns regarding MIT's past behaviors.  all i know about Aaron Swartz is that they didn't support him in his gvt struggles, is that right?  i think he was attacking/releasing some of their paywall informational archives, wasn't he?  if that's the case, then it seems understandable that their would be some tension btwn them.

i read Joi Ito's statement on the Media Labs intention and so far we should give him the benefit of the doubt.  of course, time will tell.  i did read that article this morning about Forde.  he's definitely someone worth keeping an eye on.  i would not like it if he ends up trying to steer core dev direction to a significant degree away from our ideal goals that we've espoused ad nauseum here in this thread.  one thing that did occur to me is that Gavin, et al won't be moving to MIT under the direct roof of the Media Lab, i'm sure.  they will continue to work remotely which helps shield them to a degree.  but yeah, accepting pay can be influential for sure.  somehow though, from what i've seen of MIT's overall contributions to tech, they seem to have libertarian leanings supportive of the Bitcoin culture and open source.  and the fact that it is a research institution is comforting.  do you have any evidence that it is an NSA "antechamber"?

tl;dr:  i don't see it as a problem right now; in fact, i see it as a positive that those 3 are going to continue to be paid.  but yeah, we have to keep an eye out.

About Aaron Swartz see here. :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXr-2hwTk58

i've watched that whole video.  so very sad.
Quote

tl;dr not only did they not support him, they supported the gvt with evidences and complicity in the prosecution of a victimless crime.

MIT may not "exist" for political reasons but like most every institutions in the united states are now rotten with government agents and politically captured by potato science "research" funding.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/08/08/leak_case_spotlights_an_mit_divide/

if you read the entire article you'll see that the institutions stance on issues of freedom are diverse; Daniel Ellsberg, Noam Chomsky, Bradley Manning supporters, Matthew Green of Zerocash, the MIT Bitcoin Club and Bitcoin Drop, Theodore Postol all came from MIT.
Quote

I mean, what else could have caused this much damage to a once great institution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334

bad link
brg444
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April 23, 2015, 06:01:21 PM
 #23008

bad link

working fine for me.

edit : another one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIhk9eKOLzQ

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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April 23, 2015, 06:08:07 PM
 #23009


what does that video really have to do with MIT students?
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April 23, 2015, 06:09:36 PM
 #23010


what does that video really have to do with MIT students?

Can you read?

Quote
MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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April 23, 2015, 06:10:42 PM
 #23011


what does that video really have to do with MIT students?

Can you read?

Quote
MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery.

can you process?  do you really think that headline is reflective or some indictment on MIT education?
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April 23, 2015, 06:11:29 PM
 #23012


what does that video really have to do with MIT students?

Can you read?

Quote
MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery.

can you process?  do you really think that headline is reflective or some indictment on MIT education?


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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April 23, 2015, 06:16:09 PM
 #23013


what does that video really have to do with MIT students?

Can you read?

Quote
MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery.

can you process?  do you really think that headline is reflective or some indictment on MIT education?



my point is, that's a stupid video.  so what if they dumbfounded a few MIT students about how to power a light bulb.  we don't even know if they ARE MIT students.  and if they are, they probably cherry picked those who couldn't to try and make a predetermined point.  one wonders how many students they had to edit out who could light the bulb.  iow, i wouldn't throw the whole institution under the bus just b/c of this video.
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April 23, 2015, 06:28:53 PM
 #23014


what does that video really have to do with MIT students?

Can you read?

Quote
MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery.

can you process?  do you really think that headline is reflective or some indictment on MIT education?



my point is, that's a stupid video.  so what if they dumbfounded a few MIT students about how to power a light bulb.  we don't even know if they ARE MIT students.  and if they are, they probably cherry picked those who couldn't to try and make a predetermined point.  one wonders how many students they had to edit out who could light the bulb.  iow, i wouldn't throw the whole institution under the bus just b/c of this video.

it is strange to me you understand the truth of sound money yet do not grok the reality I apparently have to lead you to. it's like you only have one eye open.

these guys are slowly trying to co-opt Bitcoin to the government and its establishments and you can't see it

just look at the list of the Media Lab "sponsors" : https://www.media.mit.edu/sponsorship/sponsor-list

Quote
Brian Forde, former White House senior advisor for mobile and data innovation, has joined the MIT Media Lab as director of digital currency.

https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/brian-forde-media-lab-director-digital-currency-0415

Get a grip.

I'm not saying this will kill Bitcoin but this is certainly no less "bad" than what the folks are Blockstream are privately funding, whether they are for profit or not is irrelevant really.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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April 23, 2015, 06:37:52 PM
 #23015


what does that video really have to do with MIT students?

Can you read?

Quote
MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery.

can you process?  do you really think that headline is reflective or some indictment on MIT education?



my point is, that's a stupid video.  so what if they dumbfounded a few MIT students about how to power a light bulb.  we don't even know if they ARE MIT students.  and if they are, they probably cherry picked those who couldn't to try and make a predetermined point.  one wonders how many students they had to edit out who could light the bulb.  iow, i wouldn't throw the whole institution under the bus just b/c of this video.

it is strange to me you understand the truth of sound money yet do not grok the reality I apparently have to lead you to. it's like you only have one eye open.

these guys are slowly trying to co-opt Bitcoin to the government and its establishments and you can't see it

just look at the list of the Media Lab "sponsors" : https://www.media.mit.edu/sponsorship/sponsor-list

Quote
Brian Forde, former White House senior advisor for mobile and data innovation, has joined the MIT Media Lab as director of digital currency.

https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/brian-forde-media-lab-director-digital-currency-0415

Get a grip.

I'm not saying this will kill Bitcoin but this is certainly no less "bad" than what the folks are Blockstream are privately funding, whether they are for profit or not is irrelevant really.

i already addressed all your concerns above in my first answer to you.  if you'd rather look at the negatives around MIT and ignore the for-profit incentives of Blockstream, i can't help you.
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April 23, 2015, 08:19:27 PM
 #23016

MIT's Digital Currency Initiative is, for numerous reasons, a positive thing for Bitcoin.  Perhaps most importantly, it gives a sort of "social permission" to take Bitcoin seriously.  Efforts like this, combined with the Princeton Lecture Series and Stanford's Bitcoin Research group slowly shift Bitcoin research from a fringe idea to a serious field of scholarly inquiry.  If interest in Bitcoin proves robust, we'll later see other universities launch similar initiatives, greater involvement by academics, and peer-reviewed journals dedicated to Bitcoin research.  Haha, perhaps 30 years from now, undergraduate students will learn about Nakamoto Consensus or Maxwell's Coinjoin from textbooks. 

"Centralization" at MIT will later be offset by similar initiatives at other universities.  In fact, in a lot of ways, academia has always been sort of "peer-to-peer" and "decentralized"; in my opinion, it's a good place to foster continued Bitcoin research and development.   

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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April 23, 2015, 08:19:39 PM
 #23017

A consequence of the "adoption" that so many of us want, is that Bitcoin must permeate through big institutions such as universities and branches of government.  Indeed this presents the risk of unfavourable changes to Bitcoin, but it's also the force that creates the social permission necessary for widespread adoption.  Furthermore, I think the "co-opt and control" concerns expressed here and on Reddit are largely misplaced.  From the people I've met, whether it's an analyst at the SF Fed, a MIT professor, or an executive at RBC, the feeling I get from them is one of genuine interest and curiosity. Bitcoin is simply a new useful tool and so, they want to understand it and potentially use it.  Exactly how it will be used in this post-bitcoin-adoption world is undefined.  It's up to us to try and shape it…

Eventually, we may find ourselves deep within the belly of the beast…and at that point I think Bitcoin will have already succeeded.

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April 23, 2015, 08:42:12 PM
 #23018

A consequence of the "adoption" that so many of us want, is that Bitcoin must permeate through big institutions such as universities and branches of government.  Indeed this presents the risk of unfavourable changes to Bitcoin, but it's also the force that creates the social permission necessary for widespread adoption.  Furthermore, I think the "co-opt and control" concerns expressed here and on Reddit are largely misplaced.  From the people I've met, whether it's an analyst at the SF Fed, a MIT professor, or an executive at RBC, the feeling I get from them is one of genuine interest and curiosity. Bitcoin is simply a new useful tool and so, they want to understand it and potentially use it.  Exactly how it will be used in this post-bitcoin-adoption world is undefined.  It's up to us to try and shape it…

Eventually, we may find ourselves deep within the belly of the beast…and at that point I think Bitcoin will have already succeeded.
Grnuine interest cause they dont understand it yet... Which is good.. By the time they do understand it it will be too late to try to manipulate.

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April 23, 2015, 09:00:10 PM
 #23019

A consequence of the "adoption" that so many of us want, is that Bitcoin must permeate through big institutions such as universities and branches of government.  Indeed this presents the risk of unfavourable changes to Bitcoin, but it's also the force that creates the social permission necessary for widespread adoption.  

Fully agree that for large scale adoption, Bitcoin must also be embedded with and work with existing institutions and government. In the end this must happen from tax code compliance to legal frameworks.

The outstanding question though is who will change for who? Will society/government change to match bitcoin? Or will bitcoin be changed to match our current society/government?

Furthermore, I think the "co-opt and control" concerns expressed here and on Reddit are largely misplaced.  From the people I've met, whether it's an analyst at the SF Fed, a MIT professor, or an executive at RBC, the feeling I get from them is one of genuine interest and curiosity. Bitcoin is simply a new useful tool and so, they want to understand it and potentially use it.  Exactly how it will be used in this post-bitcoin-adoption world is undefined.  It's up to us to try and shape it…

Eventually, we may find ourselves deep within the belly of the beast…and at that point I think Bitcoin will have already succeeded.

That is great to hear, but the reality is the people you listed do not determine or shape policy in the end. Policy is determined by regulatory bodies (mostly) and by legislative bodies (somewhat). Take New York for example, Lawsky is none of the above and he is putting New York down a path that makes Bitcoin unworkable there. Other states are taking opposite and positive approaches. At some point it will go federal and it is not known if they will go with the NYDFS's view or something less draconian.

That fact that we can not say for sure who will change for who, is itself cause for concern.

IMHO the best method to make Bitcoin secure, is to make it very difficult for governments to force change into. The more this is true the more they have to change for bitcoin and not the other way around.

Having mining be as distributed as possible is one method to help secure Bitcoin, i.e. if >50% of mining is outside the US it is hard for the FED to force change. Having more mining be P2Pool based instead of centralized pools is even better. Another method is to have as many people use bitcoin through their own wallets with the P2P directly. If everyone uses coinbase wallets, it is easy for the feds to force changes in bitcoin usage, but if everyone uses their own wallets it becomes harder to make enough people switch if they don't see a reason to.
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April 23, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
 #23020

http://reut.rs/1EwgLtD

First Bitcoin exchange to file for a banking license.

I wondered who'd be first. Expecting Coinbase & Circle to follow.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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