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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1902948 times)
cypherdoc
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May 11, 2015, 04:42:58 AM
 #23861

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.
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TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 04:48:26 AM
 #23862

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 04:59:33 AM
 #23863

I am headed to the gym. I wish you guys would work with me and get serious. We are headed into Orwellian hell if we don't stop bickering and go solve the damn problem.

Right now while Bitcoin is headed for bottom below $150 is our opportunity. We won't get another one.

lunarboy
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May 11, 2015, 05:00:12 AM
 #23864


Quote
[–]gavinandresenGavin Andresen - Bitcoin Expert

I think 1-minute blocks is a good idea. The best time to roll that out would be the next subsidy halving (makes the code much simpler).

We still need a bigger max block size, though.

   reddit

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, how about changing the block interval?
cypherdoc
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May 11, 2015, 05:00:44 AM
 #23865

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

the GUI's != owner's wallets.   owner's wallet are connected to the p2p network, not the Amazon's attacker ass.
TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 05:04:58 AM
 #23866

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

the GUI's != owner's wallets.   owner's wallet are connected to the p2p network, not the Amazon's attacker ass.

Masses will use the Circle, Paypal, Coinbase, Amazon, Facebook, etc wallet.

This is why the banksters are funding all the large scale wallet startups.

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

tvbcof
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May 11, 2015, 05:08:10 AM
 #23867


Quote
[–]gavinandresenGavin Andresen - Bitcoin Expert

I think 1-minute blocks is a good idea. The best time to roll that out would be the next subsidy halving (makes the code much simpler).

We still need a bigger max block size, though.

   reddit

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, how about changing the block interval?

I'm in favor of changing it.  About 16 block per day would be about right as far as I'm concerned.  Bitcoin never was a real-time system and real-time behavior when needed is best done for real in a proxy (e.g., a bitcoin-backed sidechain designed for such use-cases.)


TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 05:12:59 AM
 #23868


Quote
[–]gavinandresenGavin Andresen - Bitcoin Expert

I think 1-minute blocks is a good idea. The best time to roll that out would be the next subsidy halving (makes the code much simpler).

We still need a bigger max block size, though.

   reddit

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, how about changing the block interval?

I'm in favor of changing it.  About 16 block per day would be about right as far as I'm concerned.  Bitcoin never was a real-time system and real-time behavior when needed is best done for real in a proxy (e.g., a bitcoin-backed sidechain designed for such use-cases.)

That addresses only a small symptom of the overall problem, i.e. the orphan rate.I need to recheck the math for orphan rate. The size of block scales with block period, not sure if orphan rate is non-linear such that it would decline. I think so.

It does nothing for the fact that UXTO won't scale with RAM.

It does nothing for the Transactions Withholding attack, pool Sybil attack, and inefficacy of getblocktemplate-at-scale issues I've raised.

It can't help you scale to micropayments volume.

cypherdoc
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May 11, 2015, 05:18:03 AM
 #23869

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

the GUI's != owner's wallets.   owner's wallet are connected to the p2p network, not the Amazon's attacker ass.

Masses will use the Circle, Paypal, Coinbase, Amazon, Facebook, etc wallet.

This is why the banksters are funding all the large scale wallet startups.

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

sorry, none of the geeks should fall for it and alot of ppl have learned from mtgox and the other exchanges.  and all the current unbanked billions won't be eligible for those company accts and will work off their smartphones.  so no, an absurd cartel the likes of what you've described above will not be forming and even if it did, i just described how their share will be limited.  no one likes cartels anyways.
TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 05:24:06 AM
 #23870

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

the GUI's != owner's wallets.   owner's wallet are connected to the p2p network, not the Amazon's attacker ass.

Masses will use the Circle, Paypal, Coinbase, Amazon, Facebook, etc wallet.

This is why the banksters are funding all the large scale wallet startups.

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

sorry, none of the geeks should fall for it and alot of ppl have learned from mtgox and the other exchanges.  and all the current unbanked billions won't be eligible for those company accts and will work off their smartphones.  so no, an absurd cartel the likes of what you've described above will not be forming and even if it did, i just described how their share will be limited.  no one likes cartels anyways.

Well now you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel and being either disingenuous or absurdly obtuse.

Denial of reality won't help you.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-exchange-coinbase-just-passed-2-million-users/

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The newly U.S. licensed Bitcoin Exchange Coinbase has just passed 2 million users. This is a large mark for Coinbase and we at CCN sends our congratulations.

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May 11, 2015, 05:24:12 AM
 #23871

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

"Because I've thought about this in depth, it is inconceivable that I am wrong." - This is not the way to bring people around to your side, seriously!
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May 11, 2015, 05:30:26 AM
 #23872

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

"Because I've thought about this in depth, it is inconceivable that I am wrong." - This is not the way to bring people around to your side, seriously!

I am not trying to win a Communist kiss my ass contest. I am trying to elucidate the facts.

If I say I have thought through all the details of the Transactions Withholding Attack ad nauseum over 2 years and entertained 100s of posts of debate, then it means I am speaking factually.

A good card-carrying Communist can't handle facts, and thus doesn't want success.

It doesn't mean I am not open to being wrong, but for how many posts do I have to debate before it becomes redundant and diminishing returns to 0?

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May 11, 2015, 05:31:46 AM
 #23873

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

the GUI's != owner's wallets.   owner's wallet are connected to the p2p network, not the Amazon's attacker ass.

Masses will use the Circle, Paypal, Coinbase, Amazon, Facebook, etc wallet.

This is why the banksters are funding all the large scale wallet startups.

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

sorry, none of the geeks should fall for it and alot of ppl have learned from mtgox and the other exchanges.  and all the current unbanked billions won't be eligible for those company accts and will work off their smartphones.  so no, an absurd cartel the likes of what you've described above will not be forming and even if it did, i just described how their share will be limited.  no one likes cartels anyways.

Well now you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel and being either disingenuous or absurdly obtuse.

Denial of reality won't help you.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-exchange-coinbase-just-passed-2-million-users/

Quote
The newly U.S. licensed Bitcoin Exchange Coinbase has just passed 2 million users. This is a large mark for Coinbase and we at CCN sends our congratulations.

I'm one of those 2M. And I pull my coin out immediately.
TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 05:36:32 AM
 #23874

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

the GUI's != owner's wallets.   owner's wallet are connected to the p2p network, not the Amazon's attacker ass.

Masses will use the Circle, Paypal, Coinbase, Amazon, Facebook, etc wallet.

This is why the banksters are funding all the large scale wallet startups.

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

sorry, none of the geeks should fall for it and alot of ppl have learned from mtgox and the other exchanges.  and all the current unbanked billions won't be eligible for those company accts and will work off their smartphones.  so no, an absurd cartel the likes of what you've described above will not be forming and even if it did, i just described how their share will be limited.  no one likes cartels anyways.

Well now you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel and being either disingenuous or absurdly obtuse.

Denial of reality won't help you.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-exchange-coinbase-just-passed-2-million-users/

Quote
The newly U.S. licensed Bitcoin Exchange Coinbase has just passed 2 million users. This is a large mark for Coinbase and we at CCN sends our congratulations.

I'm one of those 2M. And I pull my coin out immediately.

Grandma and moma aren't you. And that is entire point of this drive to push Paypal, Circle, Coinbase, etc onto the masses.

If you are arguing the masses will have the slightest clue that they need to move their wallet because of some obscure Digital Kill Switch that doesn't affect them, then you are disingenuous and absurd.

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May 11, 2015, 05:38:16 AM
 #23875

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

"Because I've thought about this in depth, it is inconceivable that I am wrong." - This is not the way to bring people around to your side, seriously!

I am not trying to win a Communist kiss my ass contest. I am trying to elucidate the facts.

If I say I have thought through all the details of the Transactions Withholding Attack ad nauseum over 2 years and entertained 100s of posts of debate, then it means I am speaking factually.

A good card-carrying Communist can't handle facts, and thus doesn't want success.

It doesn't mean I am not open to being wrong, but for how many posts do I have to debate before it becomes redundant and diminishing returns to 0?

Anonymint registers account March 2013. What was price then, 80, I don't have access to chart. If he buys then, instead of being a bear, he's tripled his money? Maybe he wouldn't be struggling with bills?
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May 11, 2015, 05:42:32 AM
 #23876

Anonymint registers account March 2013. What was price then, 80, I don't have access to chart. If he buys then, instead of being a bear, he's tripled his money? Maybe he wouldn't be struggling with bills?

So now we stoop again to character assassination when you've lost the factual debate?

(this has been explained many times by me, thezerg don't accuse me of bringing my personal info in, now he is challenging me to explain what happened, but I won't repeat again, he can search my archives)

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May 11, 2015, 05:43:23 AM
 #23877

Usually, miners are good citizens and include many of the pending transactions. However, a block could be mined where all this consensus is ignored and the new block is full of transactions which the miner has "pulled out of his ass" (real-world business or not) with fees payable to himself. Apart from providing PoW security to older blocks, the new block is unhelpful, and many of them together is an attack.

So the "unauthorized" transactions are simply those that are already missing from the majority of the network's node mempools. The reason they are missing is that they have been discarded by most nodes, or never seen by them because the miner kept them quiet until finding a block.

There is no whitelisting or blacklisting unless 51% of the nodes are using the same whitelist or blacklist. If they are then there then that is a majority decision, and the risk of this is the same as today.
Also, standard new blocks with full tx would certainly remain supported even if IBLT was fully functional and in widespread use.

you just described AM's "targeted withholding attack".  also it's solution.

I hadn't read that.

That isn't a solution because it is the wrong characterization of the coming reality of NWO fascism.

I don't know if you've noticed the trend towards consolidation in the online retailing sector. For example here in the Philippines Ayosdito.com and olx.ph merged and now I can't buy imported vitamin D3 any more because the new cartel eliminated vitamin ads!  Angry

Consolidation will accelerate as the global economic implosion hits us 2016 (mostly in Europe) and accelerating in 2017 or 2018 in the USA.

The masses love their WalMart, Target, Amazon, and other big names. The Big 5s will be folded into the Amazons.

When we reach the point that 80% of online shopping is done through Amazon Payments, Paypal, Coinbase, Bitpay, Circle and a few others, then the case of the "transactions which the miner has 'pulled out of his ass'" (i.e. the txs that are for those big names) will be most of the transactions.

As I said, the masses are working against your theory of political containment. Sorry you can't win with politics. You need a truly technically decentralized solution.

As I said from my first comment in this thread that got you all so offended, you need to make the fundamental tenet of Satoshi's whitepaper the actual reality. Bitcoin isn't. Sorry.

when i use Mycelium to scan your Amazon "attacker" payment address, it sends my BTC  thru the Mycelium server who then forwards it out to the network  "indiscriminately".  thus, the payment tx cannot be hidden or held up Amazon's ass to be released en masse with billions of other Amazon tx's for the purpose of attacking and screwing other miners.

If 80% of txs are being coursed through the cartel because the complacent masses use the GUIs the cartel websites present them, then Mycelium won't be hearing about them.

And if the miners that didn't hear about them, don't approve those blocks, then they won't be participating in 80% of the economy and thus economically it is obvious who will win that battle of attrition.

Size matters in Bitcoin. I want to change that.

the GUI's != owner's wallets.   owner's wallet are connected to the p2p network, not the Amazon's attacker ass.

Masses will use the Circle, Paypal, Coinbase, Amazon, Facebook, etc wallet.

This is why the banksters are funding all the large scale wallet startups.

Sorry you can't win this argument. I thought about it in depth.

sorry, none of the geeks should fall for it and alot of ppl have learned from mtgox and the other exchanges.  and all the current unbanked billions won't be eligible for those company accts and will work off their smartphones.  so no, an absurd cartel the likes of what you've described above will not be forming and even if it did, i just described how their share will be limited.  no one likes cartels anyways.

Well now you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel and being either disingenuous or absurdly obtuse.

Denial of reality won't help you.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-exchange-coinbase-just-passed-2-million-users/

Quote
The newly U.S. licensed Bitcoin Exchange Coinbase has just passed 2 million users. This is a large mark for Coinbase and we at CCN sends our congratulations.

I'm one of those 2M. And I pull my coin out immediately.

Grandma and moma aren't you. And that is entire point of this drive to push Paypal, Circle, Coinbase, etc onto the masses.

If you are arguing the masses will have the slightest clue that they need to move their wallet because of some obscure Digital Kill Switch that doesn't affect them, then you are disingenuous and absurd.

So let's assume for a moment you have a functioning brain and you're right that the gvt teams up with all the banks and retail companies all within a giant cabal and the masses all are in Bitcoin.

They hit the dreaded Digital Kill Switch. What happens then?
TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 05:50:56 AM
 #23878

...

Grandma and moma aren't you. And that is entire point of this drive to push Paypal, Circle, Coinbase, etc onto the masses.

If you are arguing the masses will have the slightest clue that they need to move their wallet because of some obscure Digital Kill Switch that doesn't affect them, then you are disingenuous and absurd.

So let's assume for a moment you have a functioning brain and you're right that the gvt teams up with all the banks and retail companies all within a giant cabal and the masses all are in Bitcoin.

They hit the dreaded Digital Kill Switch. What happens then?

Dissidents and competitors are targeted and eliminated (Digital Kill Switch one of the important tools of discipline on anyone who doesn't conform). The masses huddle into the NWO one world reserve currency and Global Technocracy fascist economy.

1984.

It is a slow burn eugenics paradigm to achieve Ted Turner's 500 million population goal.

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May 11, 2015, 05:56:16 AM
 #23879


Quote
[–]gavinandresenGavin Andresen - Bitcoin Expert

I think 1-minute blocks is a good idea. The best time to roll that out would be the next subsidy halving (makes the code much simpler).

We still need a bigger max block size, though.

   reddit

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, how about changing the block interval?

I'm in favor of changing it.  About 16 block per day would be about right as far as I'm concerned.  Bitcoin never was a real-time system and real-time behavior when needed is best done for real in a proxy (e.g., a bitcoin-backed sidechain designed for such use-cases.)

That addresses only a small symptom of the overall problem, i.e. the orphan rate.

It does nothing for the fact that UXTO won't scale with RAM.

Take them out of RAM.  Slow the whole system, and more importantly, use it as the slow system that it is.  Make quality (robustness) the over-arching goal over quantity and speed.  It will never be competitive in this role and will burn itself up trying...even with minimal assistance from those whom it threatens.

It does nothing for the Transactions Withholding attack, pool Sybil attack, and inefficacy of getblocktemplate-at-scale issues I've raised.

More time to cross-check and verify when the system is operating slowly.  More critically this slow rate expands and diversify the pool of potential operators which fosters decentralization into realms (virtual and otherwise) where it can really make a difference.

It can't help you scale to micropayments volume.

Even the most stary-eyed gave up on the micro-payment-on-native-bitcoin pipe dream a long time ago.  They are, however, one of the driving forces behind using Bitcoin in it's current proven form as a backing upon which target solutions such as micropayments can ride and thus become nearly a pure proxy.  (Sidechains of course.)


molecular
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May 11, 2015, 05:59:12 AM
 #23880

An attack I thought of years ago would be to formulate UTXO's systematically to chain blocks together in such a way that 1) their count would stress the working database (currently implemented in RAM most often) and 2) verifying them would touch as many blocks as possible making rendering of much of the actual blockchain itself require for many transactions.  I'm sure there is a name for such an attack.  If not, call it the 'tvbcof attack' I suppose.

Mining a block with such a tx is disincentivized by its long block propagation time (and hence higher orphan risk). Miners could evaluate tx verification time before inclusion and compare to fee.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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