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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807727 times)
rocks
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April 16, 2015, 06:51:02 PM
 #22841

Citibank economist wants to ban cash, for the express purpose of enabling rates to go below zero and to tax cash balances. (In order to save his employer and his paycheck).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

As horrible as this is, I wonder what the effect would be on people's perception of bitcoin? If they did this, then it would be plainly obvious to your average person that dollars are nothing more than an electronic ledger. Today a lot of people I know seem to be under the impression that cash is money and banks hold onto cash for you when you deposit money. Banning cash would break this thinking, it would be clear how money is all an accounting system only.

If they did this, and they taxed dollar holdings with a negative rate, I think more and more people would seek mechanisms to put money back into their control. Gold is one place, bitcoin wallets are another, land/stocks/etc are not since they are taxable as well.

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April 16, 2015, 07:16:25 PM
 #22842

Citibank economist wants to ban cash, for the express purpose of enabling rates to go below zero and to tax cash balances. (In order to save his employer and his paycheck).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

As horrible as this is, I wonder what the effect would be on people's perception of bitcoin? If they did this, then it would be plainly obvious to your average person that dollars are nothing more than an electronic ledger. Today a lot of people I know seem to be under the impression that cash is money and banks hold onto cash for you when you deposit money. Banning cash would break this thinking, it would be clear how money is all an accounting system only.

If they did this, and they taxed dollar holdings with a negative rate, I think more and more people would seek mechanisms to put money back into their control. Gold is one place, bitcoin wallets are another, land/stocks/etc are not since they are taxable as well.



gold is not really under one's control either.  you can't carry it across boarders, you can't store significant amts of it, you can't buy or sell significant amts w/o going thru a dealer (who will just document any sale), you can't carry significant amts of it due to weight, and you can't  transact with it b/c a coin isn't divisible (who here uses gold daily?).  

it should be crystal clear at this point in Bitcoin's evolution that it is infinitely more usable and efficient as a transaction medium worldwide compared to gold.  i don't think there is any question about that given the volume of tx's going on.  i think the only question remaining is the SOV function, oddly enough, due to the ever present threat of gvt intervention thru regulation or an outright ban it..  this is odd b/c Bitcoin has an even harder fixed supply than gold while gold could be banned just as easily if not more so.  this threat is being reflected in the price volatility.  

but this is why Satoshi decentralized Bitcoin round the world.
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April 16, 2015, 07:26:13 PM
 #22843

Citibank economist wants to ban cash, for the express purpose of enabling rates to go below zero and to tax cash balances. (In order to save his employer and his paycheck).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

As horrible as this is, I wonder what the effect would be on people's perception of bitcoin? If they did this, then it would be plainly obvious to your average person that dollars are nothing more than an electronic ledger. Today a lot of people I know seem to be under the impression that cash is money and banks hold onto cash for you when you deposit money. Banning cash would break this thinking, it would be clear how money is all an accounting system only.

If they did this, and they taxed dollar holdings with a negative rate, I think more and more people would seek mechanisms to put money back into their control. Gold is one place, bitcoin wallets are another, land/stocks/etc are not since they are taxable as well.



Interesting he thinks that rates should have went to - 6% during the crisis. Then the author says states that sometimes strongly negative nominal rates are called for - when? when financial institutions make shitty, high risk investments so they can be bailed out at the expense of the public?
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April 16, 2015, 07:38:30 PM
 #22844

Citibank economist wants to ban cash, for the express purpose of enabling rates to go below zero and to tax cash balances. (In order to save his employer and his paycheck).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

As horrible as this is, I wonder what the effect would be on people's perception of bitcoin? If they did this, then it would be plainly obvious to your average person that dollars are nothing more than an electronic ledger. Today a lot of people I know seem to be under the impression that cash is money and banks hold onto cash for you when you deposit money. Banning cash would break this thinking, it would be clear how money is all an accounting system only.

If they did this, and they taxed dollar holdings with a negative rate, I think more and more people would seek mechanisms to put money back into their control. Gold is one place, bitcoin wallets are another, land/stocks/etc are not since they are taxable as well.



Interesting he thinks that rates should have went to - 6% during the crisis. Then the author says states that sometimes strongly negative nominal rates are called for - when? when financial institutions make shitty, high risk investments so they can be bailed out at the expense of the public?

Yes, you got it. Socialized loses them but not for you.
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April 16, 2015, 07:39:29 PM
 #22845

Citibank economist wants to ban cash, for the express purpose of enabling rates to go below zero and to tax cash balances. (In order to save his employer and his paycheck).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

As horrible as this is, I wonder what the effect would be on people's perception of bitcoin? If they did this, then it would be plainly obvious to your average person that dollars are nothing more than an electronic ledger. Today a lot of people I know seem to be under the impression that cash is money and banks hold onto cash for you when you deposit money. Banning cash would break this thinking, it would be clear how money is all an accounting system only.

If they did this, and they taxed dollar holdings with a negative rate, I think more and more people would seek mechanisms to put money back into their control. Gold is one place, bitcoin wallets are another, land/stocks/etc are not since they are taxable as well.



Interesting he thinks that rates should have went to - 6% during the crisis. Then the author says states that sometimes strongly negative nominal rates are called for - when? when financial institutions make shitty, high risk investments so they can be bailed out at the expense of the public?

he's an idiot engaging in rhetorical tautology, bolding mine:

Buiter dismisses each of these concerns in turn (with no arguments provided), finishing with:

 ----In summary, we therefore conclude that the arguments against abolishing currency seem rather weak.

rocks
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April 16, 2015, 09:23:38 PM
 #22846

Citibank economist wants to ban cash, for the express purpose of enabling rates to go below zero and to tax cash balances. (In order to save his employer and his paycheck).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

As horrible as this is, I wonder what the effect would be on people's perception of bitcoin? If they did this, then it would be plainly obvious to your average person that dollars are nothing more than an electronic ledger. Today a lot of people I know seem to be under the impression that cash is money and banks hold onto cash for you when you deposit money. Banning cash would break this thinking, it would be clear how money is all an accounting system only.

If they did this, and they taxed dollar holdings with a negative rate, I think more and more people would seek mechanisms to put money back into their control. Gold is one place, bitcoin wallets are another, land/stocks/etc are not since they are taxable as well.



Interesting he thinks that rates should have went to - 6% during the crisis. Then the author says states that sometimes strongly negative nominal rates are called for - when? when financial institutions make shitty, high risk investments so they can be bailed out at the expense of the public?

he's an idiot engaging in rhetorical tautology, bolding mine:

Buiter dismisses each of these concerns in turn (with no arguments provided), finishing with:

 ----In summary, we therefore conclude that the arguments against abolishing currency seem rather weak.



The Science Is Settled!!!
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April 16, 2015, 10:47:44 PM
 #22847

http://www.wired.com/partners/bnymellon/futureofmoney/

Article sponsored by BNY Mellon...
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April 16, 2015, 11:27:06 PM
 #22848

The Science Is Settled!!!

Is Economics a science now?
The results just seem to be for sale to the highest bidders.
The international war on cash is accelerating.

What's next?...fine art, rare goods, will only exist in registries with a bank?

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
rocks
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April 16, 2015, 11:58:39 PM
 #22849

The Science Is Settled!!!

Is Economics a science now?
The results just seem to be for sale to the highest bidders.
The international war on cash is accelerating.

What's next?...fine art, rare goods, will only exist in registries with a bank?

It is a reference to climate scientists, who now all claim that "the science is settled" for global warming. This enables them to label anyone not on the climate change bandwagon as a "denier". (Never mind that there is very legitimate reasons that show the theory is bunk)

Climate scientists are in competition with economists and the psychiatry profession for seeing who can make up the most shit out of thin air and get away with calling it "science".
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April 17, 2015, 12:19:32 AM
 #22850


Climate scientists are in competition with economists and the psychiatry profession for seeing who can make up the most shit out of thin air and get away with calling it "science".

I'm going to print this quote on a bronze plaque.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
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April 17, 2015, 01:14:46 AM
 #22851

The Science Is Settled!!!

Is Economics a science now?
The results just seem to be for sale to the highest bidders.
The international war on cash is accelerating.

What's next?...fine art, rare goods, will only exist in registries with a bank?

It is a reference to climate scientists, who now all claim that "the science is settled" for global warming. This enables them to label anyone not on the climate change bandwagon as a "denier". (Never mind that there is very legitimate reasons that show the theory is bunk)

Climate scientists are in competition with economists and the psychiatry profession for seeing who can make up the most shit out of thin air and get away with calling it "science".
These propagandists wouldn't even have jobs if they weren't given block grants to fund their "research" time and time again. It's so irritating (and that's being nice about it) that these shysters get to preach their garbage with taxpayers paying for it in many cases.
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April 17, 2015, 08:31:56 AM
 #22852

The Science Is Settled!!!

Is Economics a science now?
The results just seem to be for sale to the highest bidders.
The international war on cash is accelerating.

What's next?...fine art, rare goods, will only exist in registries with a bank?

A K7 "oil painting from a foreign master" was recently sold for 14 million. Nobody has even seen what it looks like.

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April 17, 2015, 08:56:06 AM
 #22853

Oh btw, the voting on the top of the thread lead me to think...

I voted "gold" for the first time in years. Bitcoin seems to have too little leadership and too much issues with the fungibility. I mean, it was probably designed to be fungible, and in any meaning of common sense it is. But the money masters and their tools are not obliged to follow common sense, and leaving any loophole open for them to spy on people and make their life difficult as a result, has proven that it will be exploited. They are like domestic pests, to get rid of them you first remove any food and other desirability, and then poison your home for a time.

This should not be construed as advice to kill any approaching federal agents; "removing the food" means that you don't possess anything that they could be able to seize and "poisoning your home" refers to other precautions taken that lead to the attacker side to suffer the actual loss as a result of the attack (cf. Gandhi).


As a "funny" (Kafkaesque) sidenote: Don't write things such as "This should not be construed as advice to kill any approaching federal agents" on the Internet unless you are ready to be accused of instructing to kill the agents. It has happened to me once. I was finally sentenced in court for "calling Silverbank a bank" (which could with some imagination be considered to be illegal). Problem is that I never did it, and explicitly where Silverbank the name was even mentioned, it was accompanied with "Silverbank is not a bank."

That was the straw that broke my apprehension towards the justice system. I am ok if people engage in such charade in their private parties, and - as a man of wit - would consider to voluntarily attend. But cheese, these guys think that they for real can waste my time and actually do harm to me with their insane obsession of twisting the truth 180°. Police is gross-ironically the only Finnish government institution that still enjoys my respect. They commit crimes, like everyone, but the number of policemen killed on duty might actually be higher than the number of Police victims, and that's not very common. Also, many other state agencies can apparently freely be used to persecute me. Police seems to be different, a state institution with integrity, or at least checks in place to prevent extortion.

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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April 17, 2015, 09:16:25 AM
 #22854

The Science Is Settled!!!

Is Economics a science now?
The results just seem to be for sale to the highest bidders.
The international war on cash is accelerating.

What's next?...fine art, rare goods, will only exist in registries with a bank?
After cash is banned, it's likely gold will be next. They tried it once before and this time they will succeed. While nations are trying to repatriate their gold and Wall Street issues paper gold, physical gold itself will be under attack.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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April 17, 2015, 09:45:41 AM
 #22855

The Science Is Settled!!!

Is Economics a science now?
The results just seem to be for sale to the highest bidders.
The international war on cash is accelerating.

What's next?...fine art, rare goods, will only exist in registries with a bank?
After cash is banned, it's likely gold will be next. They tried it once before and this time they will succeed. While nations are trying to repatriate their gold and Wall Street issues paper gold, physical gold itself will be under attack.

Well, I think their goal is not just to make life miserable, but to actually end it. It is illogical (to me, I am open to ideas!) that the Matrix-type total slavery as just the provider of energy without free will, movement etc would be the final goal.

- They don't need it. Robotics can provide all the stuff that is needed, at max the "needed" amount of human servants could be a few times the population of the masters.
- If possible, to avoid retaliation, as much people as possible should be killed at once, once the killing begins. They can always be let multiply afterwards when control is easier.
- It has never happened in history that a country build concentration camps and they will not soon be filled with dissidents. (Or think of prisons if camp feels too bad.) Never. They have always been "correct" in estimating the "need"  Tongue This is a dire warning to the thinking people in the USA. According to historical evidence, you are targeted for extermination. Reversing the course of the tide is wishwork, battling against it may in some cases be heroic, but escaping it is not very stupid either.

To not sound repetitive, I repeat:

The implicit goal in the actions that the money masters are doing, is total control and enslavement of mankind. It is already much further than most readers are able to understand.

If that wasn't enough, they also have the explicit goal of killing off at least 90% of all people. While they have had the goal for decades at least, the reality has gone to the opposite direction. It is quite plausible that since reaching the total control of mankind enables killing off 90%, and both are the goals, one would follow the other.

People are deficient in logic since they cannot comprehend this, drugged in the mind since they don't care about this, and hopelessly conditioned to lick their money masters' a$$ since they believe that this would not happen even though their masters say it will, and the people themselves are assisting it by staying in their jobs, in their tyrannical countries, not speaking out, not helping their neighbor when he is targeted, ...

The only thing required for evil to triumph is that the good men do nothing.

I am disappointed that the prosperity of the 1960s in the USA created a generation that has allowed all their liberties taken away from them in 50 years, and soon their life as well.

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April 17, 2015, 09:52:36 AM
 #22856

to me, there are just 2 remaining levels at which this prolonged 1.5 yr bear mkt will stop; here at final support, or, at a double bottom down near 160.  it's a coin toss but it's possible we've just had the bottom:



Hmm. Wondering whether a complete meltdown at OKCoin would be enough to flash-crash a 2nd bear market bottom.

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April 17, 2015, 09:57:38 AM
 #22857

The Science Is Settled!!!

Is Economics a science now?
The results just seem to be for sale to the highest bidders.
The international war on cash is accelerating.

What's next?...fine art, rare goods, will only exist in registries with a bank?
After cash is banned, it's likely gold will be next. They tried it once before and this time they will succeed. While nations are trying to repatriate their gold and Wall Street issues paper gold, physical gold itself will be under attack.

Well, I think their goal is not just to make life miserable, but to actually end it. It is illogical (to me, I am open to ideas!) that the Matrix-type total slavery as just the provider of energy without free will, movement etc would be the final goal.

- They don't need it. Robotics can provide all the stuff that is needed, at max the "needed" amount of human servants could be a few times the population of the masters.
- If possible, to avoid retaliation, as much people as possible should be killed at once, once the killing begins. They can always be let multiply afterwards when control is easier.
- It has never happened in history that a country build concentration camps and they will not soon be filled with dissidents. (Or think of prisons if camp feels too bad.) Never. They have always been "correct" in estimating the "need"  Tongue This is a dire warning to the thinking people in the USA. According to historical evidence, you are targeted for extermination. Reversing the course of the tide is wishwork, battling against it may in some cases be heroic, but escaping it is not very stupid either.

To not sound repetitive, I repeat:

The implicit goal in the actions that the money masters are doing, is total control and enslavement of mankind. It is already much further than most readers are able to understand.

If that wasn't enough, they also have the explicit goal of killing off at least 90% of all people. While they have had the goal for decades at least, the reality has gone to the opposite direction. It is quite plausible that since reaching the total control of mankind enables killing off 90%, and both are the goals, one would follow the other.

People are deficient in logic since they cannot comprehend this, drugged in the mind since they don't care about this, and hopelessly conditioned to lick their money masters' a$$ since they believe that this would not happen even though their masters say it will, and the people themselves are assisting it by staying in their jobs, in their tyrannical countries, not speaking out, not helping their neighbor when he is targeted, ...

The only thing required for evil to triumph is that the good men do nothing.

I am disappointed that the prosperity of the 1960s in the USA created a generation that has allowed all their liberties taken away from them in 50 years, and soon their life as well.

It is the fallacy, that after WWI and II we think, we are much more prudent, than our ancestors beside we are not. Every (few) generation will go to the same shit over and over again (just the enviroment changes), because we are not able to see or try to explore the blind spots in ourselves. We always seek for improvement and new frontiers outside of us (I look at you - "progress", the god of our time). The biggest battle we ever will have to fight is the one with our own lack of insight.

Always wrong until not.
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April 17, 2015, 10:37:01 AM
 #22858

I would like to point out this article on self defence. Self defence can be executed on every level, for example to protect the value of your savings by diversification and using sound money. But ultimately, the pressure, theft and coercion comes down to one individual using force to violate another's rights, therefore called violation of rights, or just violence.

Self defence is a mirror of rights, and you can not have the one without the other. This is broken down in this splendidly written short article by Major Caudill (can be found many places on the net):

http://whatonearthishappening.com/images/stories/woeih/podcast/190/The-Gun-Is-Civilization.pdf
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April 17, 2015, 10:43:20 AM
 #22859

to me, there are just 2 remaining levels at which this prolonged 1.5 yr bear mkt will stop; here at final support, or, at a double bottom down near 160.  it's a coin toss but it's possible we've just had the bottom:



Hmm. Wondering whether a complete meltdown at OKCoin would be enough to flash-crash a 2nd bear market bottom.

or it could gap up because the source of all the fake 'future' coins has finally blown up on settlement

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April 17, 2015, 10:49:46 AM
 #22860

I would like to point out this article on self defence. Self defence can be executed on every level, for example to protect the value of your savings by diversification and using sound money. But ultimately, the pressure, theft and coercion comes down to one individual using force to violate another's rights, therefore called violation of rights, or just violence.

Self defence is a mirror of rights, and you can not have the one without the other. This is broken down in this splendidly written short article by Major Caudill (can be found many places on the net):

http://whatonearthishappening.com/images/stories/woeih/podcast/190/The-Gun-Is-Civilization.pdf

I get some points of your argumentation. It is essential to the world view of separation (me and the others). Philosophy, physics and neuroscience show, that there is no separartion of me and the "sorrounding" enviroment. In this (broader) world view, you have to rethink the concept of life as a whole. This is why I think. The gun is just an evolutionary step, that has a role to play, but not so much in the way you (or your argumentation suggest it to). At least not in the long-term. You look for a crooked stick, if you want guns to be the big equalizer of our society.

Always wrong until not.
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