Bitcoin Forum
November 21, 2017, 12:33:11 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 [1133] 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 1182 1183 ... 1558 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010740 times)
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 11:59:56 AM
 #22641

In terms of economic incentives toward SC bleeding value out of MC, which appears to be a major misgiving with SCs; it has already happened with alts less so now (but I think it will accelerate again when a bull phase returns) and also with counterparty, mastercoin and bitshares that are in essence one-way pegged assets.

So we already have it in the protocol to create 1-way pegs, you can't stop that and they have shown how they siphon value out of the main chain, e.g. mastercoin has been many multiples of its btc 'cost' at times. In all probability, making a 2-way peg facility available that makes it more efficient to go in and out of the MC makes it less likely than it currently is for value in total to exit the MC via super successful 1-way pegged assets. Therefore in that analysis, as the protocol currently exists it is more vulnerable than one allowing for 2-way pegs. You could consider it as the 2-way peg closing the economic value loophole for an attack with very successful 1-way pegged assets ... shhhhh. After a successful soft-fork allowing for 2-way pegged assets any entity proposing 1-way pegged assets will be viewed skeptically and economically disadvantaged by the market perception of losing interoperability with the MC. The market will prefer 2-way pegged assets over 1-way pegged every time, and that is a net benefit to the total value proposition of bitcoin surely.

That is an interesting way to look at it, thanks

so we have supposedly all these one way 2.0's siphoning value out of the MC, so i have an even better idea:  we'll make a change to the protocol to make it even easier to facilitate a thousand more at least.  but it'll be better b/c the value can come back if it wants to!

In a SC the value cannot be permanently lost since it is still in the same circulatory system and the pressure (value) can be efficiently transferred around.

Comparing a diode to a copper wire is not controversial; one allows current in one direction only, the other both. Or a non-return valve to a tap. I'm not here to convince you btw, but you do seem to be making it harder than it needs to be.

The value of the currency unit is not lost but the value of the "system" consisting of the main chain plus the currency unit may be degraded if an alternative chain becomes dominant. The main chain would exist only for the purposes of mining distribution, and then once distribution is negligible or complete, not at all.

I see nothing particularly wrong with this, as it is an "upgrade path" but I think cypherdoc sees it as dilutive of the original Bitcoin system (which he would rather see improved-in-place rather than replaced).


i can't see how the value of the currency unit is not lost when passing thru to a SC.  the combo of unit + MC is what secures its value so w/o the original hashing power of the MC, the unit ceases to have equivalent value.  plus, all the risk of moving the unit over to the other side of a high friction 2wp that prevents seamless passage for at least 2d and is based on an spv lookback proof.

yes, that is my fear, that SC's dilute the value of the MC and thus the entire Bitcoin system.  one of the major purposes of SC's is to enable all sorts of other speculative asset trading.  i think that takes away from Bitcoin as an alternative form of money.  remember that the fiat money crisis is the major problem we have today and is what is enabling all the trickle down problems throughout the economy.  this is why all the "BC-only" crowd are working hard to get you to ignore Bitcoin "the currency".
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
sporket
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:01:46 PM
 #22642

...
try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load. ...

Bitcoin's got a bum liver, renal failure & has been bled out on top of all this.  Some additional plumbing is its only hope Sad

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:06:36 PM
 #22643

...
try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load. ...

Bitcoin's got a bum liver, renal failure & has been bled out on top of all this.  Some additional plumbing is its only hope Sad

-

since you're so into images, NLC, tell me who needed an emergency transfusion?:

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:07:51 PM
 #22644

crap, i'm getting on planes all day.  seem to get into these discussions at these times...
Meuh6879
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:17:57 PM
 #22645

Bitcoin's got a bum liver, renal failure & has been bled out on top of all this.  Some additional plumbing is its only hope Sad



Well, you can use an other illustration ...  Cool

sporket
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:21:23 PM
 #22646

...
since you're so into images, NLC, tell me who needed an emergency transfusion?:
[giant pic]

OMG, that really is something, Cypher!  Looks like USD is just absolute crap!

And yet...

USD price continues to rise vis-a-vis BTC Sad
BTC is even shittier shit than USD Huh
To fail so hard...
Cheesy
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:47:05 PM
 #22647

...
since you're so into images, NLC, tell me who needed an emergency transfusion?:
[giant pic]

OMG, that really is something, Cypher!  Looks like USD is just absolute crap!

And yet...

USD price continues to rise vis-a-vis BTC Sad
BTC is even shittier shit than USD Huh
To fail so hard...
Cheesy

Dude, I can get 244 of them for one measly bitcoin! Can you imagine that!
sporket
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:48:28 PM
 #22648

^Not for long Cheesy
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:50:55 PM
 #22649

^Not for long Cheesy

I know, I know.

I'll be able to get a whole lot Moar!
sporket
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:57:04 PM
 #22650

^A lifetime of organic solvent abuse is catching up to you, cypher.
Please head down to the hospital while you can still do it under your own steam Smiley

...
try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load. ...

Bitcoin's got a bum liver, renal failure & has been bled out on top of all this.  Some additional plumbing is its only hope Sad

Spaceman_Spiff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638


₪``Campaign Manager´´₪


View Profile
April 09, 2015, 12:58:53 PM
 #22651

try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load.  it can't as it is in equilibrium and its capacity is fine tuned for your body only.
Actually (though I don't know if anyone has ever done this on a human), this works fine in mice.  Look up 'parabiosis'.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 01:20:25 PM
 #22652

try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load.  it can't as it is in equilibrium and its capacity is fine tuned for your body only.
Actually (though I don't know if anyone has ever done this on a human), this works fine in mice.  Look up 'parabiosis'.

Conjoined (that's conjoined, not coinjoined Wink)  twins are identical twins[1] joined in utero. A rare phenomenon, the occurrence is estimated to range from 1 in 49,000 births to 1 in 189,000 births, with a somewhat higher incidence in Southwest Asia, Africa and Brazil.[2] Approximately half are stillborn, and a smaller fraction of pairs born alive have abnormalities incompatible with life.
Thoraco-omphalopagus (28% of cases):[6] Two bodies fused from the upper chest to the lower chest. These twins usually share a heart, and may also share the liver or part of the digestive system.[7]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjoined_twins
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 01:33:12 PM
 #22653

^A lifetime of organic solvent abuse is catching up to you, cypher.
Please head down to the hospital while you can still do it under your own steam Smiley

...
try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load. ...

Bitcoin's got a bum liver, renal failure & has been bled out on top of all this.  Some additional plumbing is its only hope Sad


sporket, you've busted a sproket.
BuildTheFuture
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


View Profile
April 09, 2015, 01:53:59 PM
 #22654

try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load.  it can't as it is in equilibrium and its capacity is fine tuned for your body only.
Actually (though I don't know if anyone has ever done this on a human), this works fine in mice.  Look up 'parabiosis'.

Totally OT, but there's a lot of research now in this area because they discovered hooking old mice up to young mice causes cellular rejuvenation. A lot of work going on now to figure out what are the exact blood factors responsible for it.

Rejuvenation of aged progenitor cells by exposure to a young systemic environment
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v433/n7027/abs/nature03260.html
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 02:48:51 PM
 #22655

^A lifetime of organic solvent abuse is catching up to you, cypher.
Please head down to the hospital while you can still do it under your own steam Smiley

...
try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load. ...

Bitcoin's got a bum liver, renal failure & has been bled out on top of all this.  Some additional plumbing is its only hope Sad


Hey sproket, you got problems!

http://www.coindesk.com/telecom-giant-orange-to-back-bitcoin-in-silicon-valley/
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 03:23:36 PM
 #22656

^A lifetime of organic solvent abuse is catching up to you, cypher.
Please head down to the hospital while you can still do it under your own steam Smiley

...
try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load. ...

Bitcoin's got a bum liver, renal failure & has been bled out on top of all this.  Some additional plumbing is its only hope Sad


Even more problems! Increasing tx's means increasing adoption!

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?showDataPoints=false&timespan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=30&scale=0&address=
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2324


View Profile
April 09, 2015, 03:51:20 PM
 #22657

try grafting on an additional persons circulatory system to yours.  see if your heart can handle the extra load.  it can't as it is in equilibrium and its capacity is fine tuned for your body only.
Actually (though I don't know if anyone has ever done this on a human), this works fine in mice.  Look up 'parabiosis'.

Conjoined (that's conjoined, not coinjoined Wink)  twins are identical twins[1] joined in utero. A rare phenomenon, the occurrence is estimated to range from 1 in 49,000 births to 1 in 189,000 births, with a somewhat higher incidence in Southwest Asia, Africa and Brazil.[2] Approximately half are stillborn, and a smaller fraction of pairs born alive have abnormalities incompatible with life.
Thoraco-omphalopagus (28% of cases):[6] Two bodies fused from the upper chest to the lower chest. These twins usually share a heart, and may also share the liver or part of the digestive system.[7]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjoined_twins

Another fascinating and unusual condition is 'tetragametic chimerism'.  Basically, two fraternal twins so intermixed that they appear one person and the condition often goes undetected (though it is extremely rare anyway.)

The interesting thing is that if you take a tissue sample you never know what you'll get.  Different systems do tend to be from one cell line or the other.  So, the blood may be predominantly of one DNA while the muscle tissue from another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Fairchild

I suggest that Bitcoin is like that.  A given Bitcoiner may have diametrically opposed views from another and it is folly to infer the disposition and philosophies of one Bitcoiner by analyzing those of another.  Of course Bitcoin is hardly alone in displaying this feature.


cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 04:41:25 PM
 #22658

Many of you were subbed to my newsletter back in may 2013 during the San Jose conference when I penned that update "Wall Street vs. Silicon Valley. It's good to see that 2 yrs later Jamie Dimon is finally getting the message:

http://americasmarkets.usatoday.com/2015/04/09/jp-morgan-warns-silicon-valley-is-coming/
Ivanhoe
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 841



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 04:52:03 PM
 #22659

Many of you were subbed to my newsletter back in may 2013 during the San Jose conference when I penned that update "Wall Street vs. Silicon Valley. It's good to see that 2 yrs later Jamie Dimon is finally getting the message:

http://americasmarkets.usatoday.com/2015/04/09/jp-morgan-warns-silicon-valley-is-coming/
The netocracy is coming.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 09, 2015, 04:56:56 PM
 #22660

Many of you were subbed to my newsletter back in may 2013 during the San Jose conference when I penned that update "Wall Street vs. Silicon Valley. It's good to see that 2 yrs later Jamie Dimon is finally getting the message:

http://americasmarkets.usatoday.com/2015/04/09/jp-morgan-warns-silicon-valley-is-coming/
The netocracy is coming.

sproket, we're coming for you:

Pages: « 1 ... 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 [1133] 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 1182 1183 ... 1558 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!