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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2013474 times)
Hunyadi
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May 13, 2015, 07:27:25 AM
 #23961

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1431444202.php

Getting closer to the moment it works until it doesnt.

Not quite there yet.

Happened for a few hours today as well. Japan, then Europe. Again though, someone stepped in.

How did you notice? Do you have any links?

e: germany generic govt 10y yield

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TPTB_need_war
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May 13, 2015, 07:34:11 AM
 #23962

What the US traded was a series of small but easily recoverable busts that continuously cleansed out the system, for a system that appears stable but in reality is not, the series of small busts are simply being allowed to build into one massive bust.

They exchange function for confidence, the real for the prettier illusion.

I suppose it is a risk...  If you are running such a really long con, even your successors might fall for it.

The problem is that the nanny-state psychology doesn't waterfall revert. This is why such centralized manipulation sometimes results in Dark Ages.

I am "gruff" because I see a very significant danger we are sliding into a Dark Age of NWO fascist totalitarianism with the masses fully conditioned to accept the slow burn eugenics paradigm.

Bitcoin seems to be doing its role to aid that outcome. As I said, I support Bitcoin because it can be conduit to a potential solution. But I want to remain frank about what I think Bitcoin's other impact will be.

That we and the elite both need Bitcoin, speaks to why it is succeeding. Anything that is more aligned to our true ideology and not aligned at all to the NWO outcome for Bitcoin is going to fought very hard by the current system.

P.S. apologies if my posts are depressing. I am realistic, optimist. Meaning I see the cup as half full when it is. But when it is empty, I call a spade a spade. I hope to present a half-full option soon that I can be inspired about...

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May 13, 2015, 10:56:59 AM
 #23963

Yet another escalation in the international War on Cash:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/denmark-central-bank-stop-printing-money-shops-can-refuse-accept-notes-coins/

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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May 13, 2015, 11:03:01 AM
 #23964

P.S. apologies if my posts are depressing. I am realistic, optimist. Meaning I see the cup as half full when it is. But when it is empty, I call a spade a spade. I hope to present a half-full option soon that I can be inspired about...
To me they seem less depressing and more simply incomprehensible.
You may well be a smart fellow with your eyes open, but these seem more http://www.godlikeproductions.com/ type messages.  Not sure at all what you are saying other than that there are big bad powerful things to fear out there somewhere.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
cypherdoc
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May 13, 2015, 01:04:03 PM
 #23965

You can't keep  it down
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May 13, 2015, 01:25:39 PM
 #23966

Here was my comment on IBLT:

https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/e20c3b5a1d4b97f79ac2#comment-1324639

My thought is it appears to me to be pie-in-the-sky in sense of hoping that parties will avoid the increasing probability of failure as the compression rate increases. In short, the system will need be highly centralized in order to cope with that loss of entropy.

Did you read the comment below yours? It is from Rusty Russell, a software genius who is behind parts of the Linux kernel. He and Kalle Rosenbaum exchange notes on their independently developed implementations of IBLT tested using tx recovered from the Bitcoin blockchain. It is not pie-in-the-sky. It works!
http://rustyrussell.github.io/pettycoin/2014/11/05/Playing-with-invertible-bloom-lookup-tables-and-bitcoin-transactions.html

Regarding "compression rate increase" == "system will need be highly centralized".
Successful compression rate increase is a function of the synchronization of node mempools, remember they are already all running the same software (consensus code), and receiving the same cascading p2p unconfirmed tx. They don't need to be centralized, they just need to avoid applying their own personal tx censorship rules (e.g. like Eligius who regards Counterparty tx as spam while encoding books is fine and dandy).

If all miners already have a copy of (nearly) all transactions and they only need to confirm that, then that is indeed very low entropy. For example it doesn't allow for any network disruption hiccups. When all-for-one-and-one-for-all (Communism, low entropy) have to agree on (nearly) everything then oligarchies naturally form into that power vacuum.

Again you are asking small miners to have connectivity, memory, and processing power to listen all transactions or trust a proxy (pool) to do it for them.

This worsens centralization egregiously when moving to micropayments scale.

Some have stated Bitcoin can never work for micropayments scale, so if that is not the goal, and if pools are an acceptable outcome, then this IBLT method probably suffices for scaling Bitcoin within that low entropy paradigm and the potential Sybil attacks on pools.

I guess it is because I am looking at this from the perspective of my (conceptual) solution which makes orthogonal what must be centralized from what can be decentralized, and thus achieves an overall provable decentralization (no Sybil attack possible, no low entropy power vacuum, transactions can't be unspent by orphaned chains, etc) and micropayments scaling.

Agreed IBLT can be shown to work in such a low entropy constraint (all-for-one and very limited headroom scaling), which was the point of my comment. Thus afaics, Rusty has not refuted my comment (don't know if he was trying to).

IBLT doesn't alleviate the advantage w.r.t. higher orphan rate for larger pools with better connectivity (if the smaller miner can't listen to all micropayment transactions any way) which ameliorates cypherdoc's retort against one of my threat vectors. Again if Bitcoin isn't going to scale, then fine you can use IBLT up to Visa scale perhaps. But realize Visa was for brick and mortar industrial age and we are headed towards millions and billions of transactions per second in the knowledge age.

Some of you mention side-chains, but it doesn't matter where you put the chain, you just have to solve the fundamental design issue else you've just sugarcoated more centralization (e.g. you'll end up with a few behemoths such as Coinbase, Circle, Paypal, Facebook, etc processing the micropayments offchain).

I suppose any way you head off into the maze, you will always end up back at my solution.

You can't come  in here, criticize Bitcoin, tell us  you have the solution, not tell us what it is, ask for $10K to tell us, vomit voluminously all over the thread mostly  incoherently, tell us it doesn't involve blocks, and expect  us to take you seriously.

Your theory is all gvts are in bed together with all the banks and big retailers and they are all going to Sybil attack us into a  one world  currency. Most of us have already thought about that. It's not likely.

Any altcoin  of yours that excludes blocks had better be good because that is precisely what has made satoshi's Bitcoin possible.
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May 13, 2015, 01:53:23 PM
 #23967

Interesting gold price movement.

TPTB_need_war
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May 13, 2015, 01:58:09 PM
 #23968

To me they seem less depressing and more simply incomprehensible.

Could you be more specific please? Because my posts were very specific. You have not stated what specifically I enumerated which you think is incomprehensible?

And you post the following which supports my thesis:


boumalo
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May 13, 2015, 02:05:25 PM
 #23969

Interesting gold price movement.


It is often interesting, it has been resisting but when it will go up aggressively, the US bubble game will be over.

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May 13, 2015, 02:16:43 PM
 #23970

tell us it doesn't involve blocks

I didn't write that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonality#Computer_science

Quote
Orthogonality is a system design property which guarantees that modifying the technical effect produced by a component of a system neither creates nor propagates side effects to other components of the system. Typically this is achieved through the separation of concerns and encapsulation, and it is essential for feasible and compact designs of complex systems. The emergent behavior of a system consisting of components should be controlled strictly by formal definitions of its logic and not by side effects resulting from poor integration, i.e., non-orthogonal design of modules and interfaces.

Your theory is all gvts are in bed together with all the banks and big retailers

And people like you said the NSA isn't recording everything until Edward Snowden leaked.

If you had compiled all the corroborating data I have, you would realize how foolish you appear to me.

and they are all going to Sybil attack us into a  one world  currency.

The inevitable one world reserve currency is not likely to be Bitcoin for the reasons I explained in the detailed thread (where the poll says 30% agreed).

The powers-that-be are moving us into a cashless (meaning not P2P bearer) economy and control over Bitcoin while getting dumb-ass geeks to support their own enslavement has been major coup.

Sheesh I have female neurobiologist researcher friend who has stronger analytical skills than some of you men here appear to have.

Most of us have already thought about that. It's not likely.

Enlighten me with some delusion and myopia I haven't heard already?

Maybe you can convince me, but it needs to be solid.

Any altcoin of yours that excludes blocks had better be good because that is precisely what has made satoshi's Bitcoin possible.

I guess I should excuse your lack of reading comprehension because you are in an emotional fit of rage when you read my posts?

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May 13, 2015, 02:27:22 PM
 #23971

Interesting gold price movement.


It is often interesting, it has been resisting but when it will go up aggressively, the US bubble game will be over.

Goldbugs make me want to vomit. Gold is a bystander and has no impact on the US bubble game. It will get interesting to me at $850. It will go high because of the general rush into private assets as the global sovereign debt collapse gets underway. But it is not the lever driving the default of the bubble. Sheesh maybe a $trillion market cap versus $250+ trillion in global net worth.

Cripes I remember arguing with you guys when Bitcoin was $600 the first time and saying it would go to $300. Then I said headed to $150 when it bounced the second time to $600. Now I say it is going below $150 and you again will think I am incorrect. How many times do I have to be correct before I get some respect?

Was my exact timing call on the movements of silver not correct?

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23786.html

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May 13, 2015, 02:29:19 PM
 #23972

Interesting gold price movement.


It is often interesting, it has been resisting but when it will go up aggressively, the US bubble game will be over.

Goldbugs make me want to vomit. Gold is a bystander and has no impact on the US bubble game. It will get interesting to me at $850. It will go high because of the general rush into private assets as the global sovereign debt collapse gets underway. But it is not the lever driving the default of the bubble.

See Exter's pyramid.

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May 13, 2015, 02:32:37 PM
 #23973

Interesting gold price movement.


It is often interesting, it has been resisting but when it will go up aggressively, the US bubble game will be over.

Goldbugs make me want to vomit. Gold is a bystander and has no impact on the US bubble game. It will get interesting to me at $850. It will go high because of the general rush into private assets as the global sovereign debt collapse gets underway. But it is not the lever driving the default of the bubble.

See Exter's pyramid.

I was writing about and expounding on Exter since 2005. You are preaching to someone who knows all your tricks because I used to be a silverbug.

Exter's pyramid will only be correct if we go into a lights out Dark Age, because if everything moves to gold, it won't stop there and then society moves to food as money. Strong moves into gold (as a hedge against government) only last for a few years. Severe moves into gold are when capital goes into hiding and society collapses entirely F.U.B.A.R..

Society will much prefer to be managed from a NWO top-down system than move to total collapse. The coming chaos is by design to beingbring the detractors to their knees and to gain the social will to adopt the one-world reserve compromise.

Armstrong opened my eyes to reality.

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May 13, 2015, 02:44:57 PM
 #23974

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1431444202.php

Getting closer to the moment it works until it doesnt.

Not quite there yet.

Happened for a few hours today as well. Japan, then Europe. Again though, someone stepped in.

How did you notice? Do you have any links?

e: germany generic govt 10y yield

updated version

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-12/bund-plunge-protection-team-rescue-again
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May 13, 2015, 03:09:54 PM
 #23975

Society will much prefer to be managed from a NWO top-down system than move to total collapse.

This right here I find to be the biggest reason why we need to work on alternative, decentralized systems and do it fast. Because do we really know when the crash will happen? A basic infrastructure has to be present when the collapse of the old system gets underway, otherwise we'll find ourselves being dragged towards a fully centralized control system by popular demand and it won't even matter if the system has been premeditated by some existing power groups, or not.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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May 13, 2015, 03:12:47 PM
 #23976

They exchange function for confidence, the real for the prettier illusion.

I suppose it is a risk...  If you are running such a really long con, even your successors might fall for it.
100 years is such a long time that anyone working at a CB has to believe that they are following tried and tested principles.
What saved the long con for so long was the 20th century population boom and technological revolutions.

Those two factors created wealth at a faster rate than the central banks could destroy it. So much so, that it wasn't apparent to anyone that the central banks were destroying wealth at all.

That no longer appears to be the case.
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May 13, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
 #23977

Pruden, i think it would be PrudenT to get the hell out:

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May 13, 2015, 03:46:46 PM
 #23978

tell us it doesn't involve blocks

I didn't write that.

then you need to explain this:

In my novel new design, transactions don't have to be put in blocks in order to be confirmed. That is a very strong head scratching hint for you!

Quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonality#Computer_science

Quote
Orthogonality is a system design property which guarantees that modifying the technical effect produced by a component of a system neither creates nor propagates side effects to other components of the system. Typically this is achieved through the separation of concerns and encapsulation, and it is essential for feasible and compact designs of complex systems. The emergent behavior of a system consisting of components should be controlled strictly by formal definitions of its logic and not by side effects resulting from poor integration, i.e., non-orthogonal design of modules and interfaces.

Your theory is all gvts are in bed together with all the banks and big retailers

And people like you said the NSA isn't recording everything until Edward Snowden leaked.

please provide quote where i said that
Quote

If you had compiled all the corroborating data I have, you would realize how foolish you appear to me.

any "proof" you've provided here is just plain old news articles most of us are already aware of.  your interpretation of those articles is what i disagree with.  you're not alone; most geeks have a doom and gloom view of the world it seems to me and are extremely paranoid like you.  doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong but my assessment of the situation is different.  i'm not going to waste my time outlining why, as i have already done so voluminously thru this thread.  you, being a relatively newcomer here (March 2013) could be excused for not reading everything i've written in the past.  but that's no excuse for making unfounded assumptions of where i stand nor their validity. 
Quote

and they are all going to Sybil attack us into a  one world  currency.

The inevitable one world reserve currency is not likely to be Bitcoin for the reasons I explained in the detailed thread (where the poll says 30% agreed).

The powers-that-be are moving us into a cashless (meaning not P2P bearer) economy and control over Bitcoin while getting dumb-ass geeks to support their own enslavement has been major coup.

Sheesh I have female neurobiologist researcher friend who has stronger analytical skills than some of you men here appear to have.

Most of us have already thought about that. It's not likely.

Enlighten me with some delusion and myopia I haven't heard already?

Maybe you can convince me, but it needs to be solid.

Any altcoin of yours that excludes blocks had better be good because that is precisely what has made satoshi's Bitcoin possible.

I guess I should excuse your lack of reading comprehension because you are in an emotional fit of rage when you read my posts?

i actually feel sorry for you.  you seem to have fallen on hard luck despite having a modicum of intelligence.  but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who claims he understands Bitcoin when you totally missed the runup from the early days and enter in March 2013 and missed the biggest runup of them all.  now you claim you called it just b/c it fell from 1200.  i'm not even finding your technical discussion to be that interesting b/c it involves many assumptions i don't agree with.  and worse, those assumptions are based on doom and gloom political factors.

but it's ok, Bitcoin needs a healthy population of skeptics on the way up.  bull mkts don't go up in straight lines and can't bring everyone along.  most ppl, and it looks like you're going to be one of them, will lose money in cryptocurrencies.
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May 13, 2015, 03:49:16 PM
 #23979

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1431444202.php

Getting closer to the moment it works until it doesnt.

Not quite there yet.

Happened for a few hours today as well. Japan, then Europe. Again though, someone stepped in.

This is really interesting. I think it goes back to a fundamental flaw in debt-based money, particularly when FRB means that 95% of a currency is not even government printed "fiat". The flaw is interest, specifically that debt-money which attracts interest is only sustainable long-term if real GDP grows faster than the real interest rate which debt-money requires to service it. Otherwise most money is drained from the productive economy and winds up at the banks where the only cleansing mechanism is bank insolvencies which returns money to the economy. Since bank insolvency is pretty much "banned" by CBs as banks are backstopped by printed money, then wealth transfers and economic distortions continue to build up relentlessly.

Equity-based money and asset alternatives (Gold, silver, real-estate, Picasso paintings) do not have this flaw, however, until Bitcoin was invented, none of them were suitable for 21st (or even 20th) Century long-distance, fast moving commerce.

Paradigm change. Your time is coming!

yes

from the article:

Quote
You do realize gold and silver are THE only monies out there that are not “credit based” or derive their values via the credit markets

author doesn't know yet Wink

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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May 13, 2015, 03:49:21 PM
 #23980

Armstrong opened my eyes to reality.

this explains right here why you are such a doom and gloomer.

i used to casually read his writings, especially the ones when he was behind bars.  but ever since he got out, he has been selling his conferences on world collapse in a shameless way.  i've stopped listening.
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