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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1905066 times)
cypherdoc
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April 30, 2015, 10:54:55 PM
 #23321

oh my, Bears.  bend over:

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Chalkbot
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April 30, 2015, 11:21:32 PM
 #23322

oh my, Bears.  bend over:



I remember doodling on one like this before.... let me dig it up....




Edit:
I don't remember what happened next.
cypherdoc
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April 30, 2015, 11:23:39 PM
 #23323

oh my, Bears.  bend over:



I remember doodling on one like this before.... let me dig it up....




Edit:
I don't remember what happened next.

Haha, I think I remember that. Weren't you the master of a bunch of those?
cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 12:58:52 AM
 #23324

“The market is dead,” Jeffrey Rhodes, who has spent 27 years in Dubai’s gold industry and founded Rhodes Precious Metals Consultancy DMCC, said by telephone on April 21. “There’s no real demand here”...

 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-30/saudis-russians-no-longer-buying-gold-dubai-oil-slump-curbs-precious-metals-shopping
cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 01:03:36 AM
 #23325

sounds to me like the avg Joe in this country is already ALL IN:

    A broad look at the 6.5 million customer accounts at TD Ameritrade indicates that retail investors are "pretty fully invested" in stocks, the online brokerage's CEO said Thursday.
    Fred Tomczyk cited several signs of this: margin loans at high levels, client cash at low levels and account holders at the firm logging in frequently. "It's usually a good indication that people are very engaged in the markets and watching their investments closely," he said on CNBC's " Squawk Box ."
    But Tomczyk acknowledged the potential pitfalls of these trendsand what they may portend for stocks. "I wouldn't be surprised if we have a correction here. We've had six [or] 6½ years of up markets here."


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-30/no-more-greater-fools-retail-traders-are-pretty-fully-invested-stocks-td-ceo-says
iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


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May 01, 2015, 02:43:44 AM
 #23326

“The market is dead,” Jeffrey Rhodes, who has spent 27 years in Dubai’s gold industry and founded Rhodes Precious Metals Consultancy DMCC, said by telephone on April 21. “There’s no real demand here”...

 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-30/saudis-russians-no-longer-buying-gold-dubai-oil-slump-curbs-precious-metals-shopping

Even the hardcore bugs think silver is going to $12/oz.  That probably means it will rally back to $50.

You don't hear about it much, but there's substantial consolidation (M&A) afoot in the mining sector.  EG from my portfolio:

New Gold picked up the last piece of their Rainy River project by absorbing Bayfield.

Hecla just basically stole a gargantuan deposit in Montana for a song and a peck on the cheek.  Revett shareholders are, of course, suing over the lack of lube...  Grin

This period of peak Bitcoin/gold/silver production can't last forever, though I may not be solvent by the end of it.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004


Warning Dash is a planned instamine, it wasn't
cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 09:34:02 AM
 #23327

It's about time people are fighting back. These idiots need to be flat out embarrassed in  public over and over:

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/second-crypto-war-hearing-washington/
cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 09:43:31 AM
 #23328

SPV clients don't  normally carry the UTXO set around in their memory, correct?
thezerg
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May 01, 2015, 12:50:49 PM
 #23329

SPV clients don't  normally carry the UTXO set around in their memory, correct?

Right the "UTXO client" we've been talking about is a different animal with a stronger security model...
ssmc2
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May 01, 2015, 01:36:10 PM
 #23330

It's about time people are fighting back. These idiots need to be flat out embarrassed in  public over and over:

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/second-crypto-war-hearing-washington/

My fear is that in the end this is just theatrics and the 3 letter agencies will do as they please regardless.
jmw74
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May 01, 2015, 01:50:50 PM
 #23331

It's about time people are fighting back. These idiots need to be flat out embarrassed in  public over and over:

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/second-crypto-war-hearing-washington/

My fear is that in the end this is just theatrics and the 3 letter agencies will do as they please regardless.

You say this as if they don't already do as they please.
NewLiberty
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Gresham's Lawyer


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May 01, 2015, 02:53:02 PM
 #23332

It's about time people are fighting back. These idiots need to be flat out embarrassed in  public over and over:

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/second-crypto-war-hearing-washington/


"(Massachusetts District Attorney Daniel) Conley also said Apple and Google are 'protecting those who rape, assault, and kill' with their encryption policies."

Doesn't he realize how bad this argument is?
Traffic rules and copyright law also protects those who rape assault and kill...as well as everyone else.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Grafzep
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May 01, 2015, 03:00:57 PM
 #23333

Today's edition of The Economist has a short article  (p68) looking at the decline in the gold price.

"One reason may be that investors have so many options nowadays. Humble citizens who distrust their own currencies can buy assets ranging from shares to bitcoins."



Very encouraging to see bitcoin mentioned in the context of a global asset class in a magazine (sorry, newspaper) with this readership.
cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 03:11:30 PM
 #23334

SPV clients don't  normally carry the UTXO set around in their memory, correct?

Right the "UTXO client" we've been talking about is a different animal with a stronger security model...

Its a good idea.
cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 03:55:49 PM
 #23335

another example of outrageous volatility in the stock mkt that makes Bitcoin look trivial.  in fact, in the milliseconds in after hour earnings reporting, you have absolutely no chance to react to protect yourself.  and that's even if you have privileges to trade in after hours which most don't have.  how many examples of this have i shown over the years?  ans:  many:

cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 03:58:16 PM
 #23336

here's the daily chart.  look at all those frickin gaps.  at least with Bitcoin, there are no gaps:

ssmc2
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May 01, 2015, 04:21:11 PM
 #23337

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34g0s1/apple_cofounder_steve_wozniak_joins_next_gen/cquezii

Heavy hitters indeed   Cool
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May 01, 2015, 04:24:02 PM
 #23338

another example of outrageous volatility in the stock mkt that makes Bitcoin look trivial.  in fact, in the milliseconds in after hour earnings reporting, you have absolutely no chance to react to protect yourself.  and that's even if you have privileges to trade in after hours which most don't have.  how many examples of this have i shown over the years?  ans:  many:



linked-in 250?  Holy sh*t.  Our attempts to advertise with them were utterly useless... I couldn't even find my own ad on the site until marketing pointed it out to me (you had to scroll to see it).  Bubble anyone?

There is a reason why ppl use the term "liquid" to refer to dollars.  Someday, its all going to come crashing back out, desperate for a place to go...
rocks
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May 01, 2015, 05:19:53 PM
 #23339

SPV clients don't  normally carry the UTXO set around in their memory, correct?

Right the "UTXO client" we've been talking about is a different animal with a stronger security model...

SPV clients only request information on transactions involving addresses that they care about (well actually they ask for a range of address to preserve some level of anonymity).

Using the merkle tree an SPV is able to link a single transaction up the tree to the block's header. Since they do maintain the header chain of the longest blockchain, this mechanism allows them to verify for themselves the validity of a transaction. However since they do not keep data on other addresses or transactions, they are not able to verify blocks or other new transactions on the P2P network. Think of them as leaves to the network. SPV clients take information, but do not contribute to the P2P network's security in any way, they are leaches.

All full nodes maintain the full UTXO set. This is what enables them to verify blocks and new transactions on the network.

The UTXO hash clients mentioned before are still full clients. The only difference is how the node obtains the current UTXO set from the longest blockchain. One method is to download and process the complete history, another method is to download only the UTXO set (current as of block xxx) and verify that UTXO set within the current block (i.e. with a hash embedded in the block). Once done, such a node would be in the same state as another who processed the complete history and would contribute to the P2P network as a full node.

I would argue that a UTXO hash would be as secure as a coinbase transaction, which is very secure. The risk to UTXO hashes is that a miner might insert an invalid hash for a new incorrect UTXO set. Miners can do the same thing with coinbase transactions, i.e. reward themselves 1000 BTC instead of 25 BTC. But they don't because such a block is invalid and would be rejected. Same with a UTXO hash, a miner could insert an incorrect hash, but such a block is invalid and would be rejected. And if you were still worried you could always scan the complete history, there will always be some nodes who do so and who would scream if there was a falsification.
cypherdoc
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May 01, 2015, 06:05:23 PM
 #23340

SPV clients don't  normally carry the UTXO set around in their memory, correct?

Right the "UTXO client" we've been talking about is a different animal with a stronger security model...

SPV clients only request information on transactions involving addresses that they care about (well actually they ask for a range of address to preserve some level of anonymity).

Using the merkle tree an SPV is able to link a single transaction up the tree to the block's header. Since they do maintain the header chain of the longest blockchain, this mechanism allows them to verify for themselves the validity of a transaction. However since they do not keep data on other addresses or transactions, they are not able to verify blocks or other new transactions on the P2P network. Think of them as leaves to the network. SPV clients take information, but do not contribute to the P2P network's security in any way, they are leaches.

All full nodes maintain the full UTXO set. This is what enables them to verify blocks and new transactions on the network.

The UTXO hash clients mentioned before are still full clients. The only difference is how the node obtains the current UTXO set from the longest blockchain. One method is to download and process the complete history, another method is to download only the UTXO set (current as of block xxx) and verify that UTXO set within the current block (i.e. with a hash embedded in the block). Once done, such a node would be in the same state as another who processed the complete history and would contribute to the P2P network as a full node.

I would argue that a UTXO hash would be as secure as a coinbase transaction, which is very secure. The risk to UTXO hashes is that a miner might insert an invalid hash for a new incorrect UTXO set. Miners can do the same thing with coinbase transactions, i.e. reward themselves 1000 BTC instead of 25 BTC. But they don't because such a block is invalid and would be rejected. Same with a UTXO hash, a miner could insert an incorrect hash, but such a block is invalid and would be rejected. And if you were still worried you could always scan the complete history, there will always be some nodes who do so and who would scream if there was a falsification.

You're doing a great job articulating this but what's a bit confusing, at least for me, is from which type of node's perspective you're arguing from;  namely 1. Archival nodes, 2. SPV clients, or 3. Pruned nodes.

I think it matters because I don't think that current SPV clients have the capability to download the UTXO set to verify the UTXO hash embedded in their block headers. Do you think it would just be a small additional implementation detail that these wallet providers will insert once this protocol change gets enacted? Do smartphones have that memory capability?
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