Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[sidhujag]

Sure it has value. Any open source development has tremendous value but not to the degree you wish for in this case because not even 1% of the population knows about bitcoin let alone tx times. Like I said confirm times may not matter in the future and shouldnt be used in this argument of yours.

The securing of the blockchain IS a valid issue and one that we will deal with WHeN it becomes an issue.. you shoudl know that ppl generally dont change until ina corner.. and at that point who knows which technology is available for people to switch over to or that bitcoin has already solved the problem somehow.

We are on an exponential curve technology wide and acceptance wise.. you cant assume anything about what the outcome can be or possibilities that lie ahead since we dont think that far ahead in general to care about it.. nem nxt should have waited, but ofcourse the 3000 stAkeholders would beg to differ.

[1714486269]

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[1714486269]

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[sidhujag]

Were not on the same level.

Average joe doesnt know about bitcoin yet so why would he give a ying fk about nem ?

I asked give me one thing he would care about?

You replied a physical goods decentralized exchange. Now this is a logical argument what else is possible with nemnxt thats not with bitcoin?

Is having a physical goods exchange like that something the world will see as groundbreaking And solve an everyday issue? i dont know but lets keep it logical.. list them out and maybe you can make us "see"  if there is something to see.

[kodtycoon]

Sure it has value. Any open source development has tremendous value but not to the degree you wish for in this case because not even 1% of the population knows about bitcoin let alone tx times. Like I said confirm times may not matter in the future and shouldnt be used in this argument of yours.

The securing of the blockchain IS a valid issue and one that we will deal with WHeN it becomes an issue.. you shoudl know that ppl generally dont change until ina corner.. and at that point who knows which technology is available for people to switch over to or that bitcoin has already solved the problem somehow.

We are on an exponential curve technology wide and acceptance wise.. you cant assume anything about what the outcome can be or possibilities that lie ahead since we dont think that far ahead in general to care about it.. nem nxt should have waited, but ofcourse the 3000 stAkeholders would beg to differ.

ok i agree pretty much with all of that. some how i dont think bitcoin will be able to solve much more than it already has. if it could implement even any of the stated items above. do you not think some of the best developers in the world, would have already?

and im not arguing that nxt or nem will over take bitcoin, i just cant understand how hero members of the crypto community fight tooth and nail against such revolutionary advances in the crypto scene?

you would agree that it takes years for this stuff to catch on right? as proven by bitcoin? would you agree that bitcoin has paved the way for new crypto technology to catch ground much much faster than bitcoin has? so perhaps nxt and nem have not come too fast as it will take a long time for them to grow and develope to a point where they can be used by the main stream. people dont know what possibilities are made possible by bitcoin, let alone second generation coins, so how could regular joe husband run home to his wife and tell her all the good stuff that can be done with second gens? because the tech needs to be realized before the potential of the tech can be realized by the pioneers and early adopters of the tech, which has to happen before main stream realizes and makes use of it. would you not agree?

what i cant understand is why crypto veterans, fail to recognize and take into account the stunning advances being made by second gens and continue to preach bitcoin as if there are no threats to bitcoin long term and act as if these second gens, have done little more than swap out an algorithm when in reality they have revolutionized block chain technology and taken it to a whole new unprecedented level of development and progression.

but still. tooth and nail. you all fight it. why?

[kodtycoon]

Were not on the same level.

Average joe doesnt know about bitcoin yet so why would he give a ying fk about nem ?

I asked give me one thing he would care about?

You replied a physical goods decentralized exchange. Now this is a logical argument what else is possible with nemnxt thats not with bitcoin?

Is having a physical goods exchange like that something the world will see as groundbreaking And solve an everyday issue? i dont know but lets keep it logical.. list them out and maybe you can make us "see"  if there is something to see.

companies can list stocks free of charge, free of wall street. people can buy those shares annonymously and dividends of these shares can be paid automatically to the share holders.. share holders can then also use voting system to vote on company issues.

businesses can crowd fund with the AE. so anyone who cant get a loan from a bank can put up a proposel of prospectus and get investment when a bank wont help.

an entire mmorpg thats played through the nxt client(i think) and totally built on the block chain can earn young gamers money while having fun at home. think decentralised world of war craft were if you win a battle you earn real money.

voting system could be used for governmental transparent voting that can not be corrupted and publicly audited and counted.

when bitcoin network costs 1 billion to run. nxt/nem i think can run for less than 10 million. 999,900,000 dollar saving. thats worth that much money per year isnt it? im sure those running the network will care about that.

nxttorrent will be totally decentralised bittorrent i think. piratebay and its users will love that one.

its hard to think of real world applications for technology im barely getting to grips with.

its going to have personal/business level privacy, so as far as i can tell thats like, hide balance but not transactions. hide TX but not ballance, hide shares, but show everthing else etc etc. you dont care if people see you bought a tv right? but you wouldnt want them to know how much green is in your piggy bank would you? or how many shares of company x you own or how much you earn from that right?

theres just so much its scary to think tech has become so advanced in such a short period.

also, what do you make of ethereum?

nxt automated transactions are at testing phase(very soon to start testing) and this is a total death blow to ethereum. because AT uses assembly code, any language can work with it, where as with ethereum you would have to learn their new language which could also have serious flaws, and could take years to pound out security holes. so essentially they are integrating a better ethereum into nxt and destroying ethereums first mover and main advantage over other coins.

[Peter R]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

[ErisDiscordia]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

[kodtycoon]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

[FNG]

More end of petro-dollar signs / statements everywhere.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-06/france-assures-push-against-petrodollar-not-fight-against-dollar-imperialism

[BldSwtTrs]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

NXT is not fully open-source AFAIK.

[kodtycoon]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

NXT is not fully open-source AFAIK.

when was the last time you checked? its been fully open source for months with all "clone traps" and injected flaws removed.

[BldSwtTrs]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

NXT is not fully open-source AFAIK.

when was the last time you checked? its been fully open source for months with all "clone traps" and injected flaws removed.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60166/

vbuterin:
I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics.

[kodtycoon]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

NXT is not fully open-source AFAIK.

when was the last time you checked? its been fully open source for months with all "clone traps" and injected flaws removed.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60166/

vbuterin:
I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics.

hes talking about transparent forging which hasnt been fully implemented in the core yet. not the source code of nxt.

this is the source code.

https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src
 
looks open source to me

[cypherdoc]

the war is on; for taxis that is.  and it won't end well; for Yellows:

"We just dropped uberX fares by 20%, making it cheaper than a New York City taxi. From Brooklyn to the Bronx, and everywhere in between, uberX is now the most affordable ride in the city."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-07/uber-launches-war-against-yellow-cabs-cuts-new-york-fares-20-ali-baba-launches-chine

[cypherdoc]

time for the roll:

[NewLiberty]

I found it interesting to read the comments of the ghash owner who said that pulling a  double spend is actually quite difficult from an  internal technical stand point.

I  wonder what he was talking about?  

He means that he almost didn't get away with it the last few times.  

Seriously though, can you explain to me the mechanics of an attack scenario that is technically and economically viable, repeatable, undetectable  and puts cash into his bank account as a result?

Having mentioned the one that you are already aware of and is public knowledge will have to be sufficient for this media.
Discussing past malicious acts is fine.
Discussing "theoretical" future crimes treads the line of conspiracy in many jurisdictions.  Folks know me and how to find me.  I'm not eager to do that in any public forum, nor ought you be.
Let it suffice that there are attack vectors using mining concentration.  I suspect you may be as aware of some of them as I, if you look at it critically.

That the current concentrators are eminently honorable and not presently subjected to coercive forces is nice, like a sunny spring day... but that is not to imagine that it won't sometimes rain.  It remains a systemic threat that smart folks are working on resolving in many ways.  I think they are not wasting their time.

A.A. also publicly dismisses and minimizes these threats.  I respect his position, but my own is very different from his.  I am less concerned with speedy adoption, and more with getting it as right as we can ahead of that and looking at it holistically.  With the prospects of "darker" more private coins, the discovery of malfeasance is increasingly difficult.

I tend to think that adoption will happen in its own time now anyway.  All the opposition are their own worst enemies.  Adoption is inevitable, excellence is what takes and deserves the effort.

[cypherdoc]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

[arbitrage001]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

Unlikely to happen.

Who is going to enforce law and order? No nation will willingly give up their own army and police and the power to suppress their citizen.

[Adrian-x]

I found it interesting to read the comments of the ghash owner who said that pulling a  double spend is actually quite difficult from an  internal technical stand point.

I  wonder what he was talking about?  

He means that he almost didn't get away with it the last few times.  

Seriously though, can you explain to me the mechanics of an attack scenario that is technically and economically viable, repeatable, undetectable  and puts cash into his bank account as a result?

Having mentioned the one that you are already aware of and is public knowledge will have to be sufficient for this media.
Discussing past malicious acts is fine.
Discussing "theoretical" future crimes treads the line of conspiracy in many jurisdictions.  Folks know me and how to find me.  I'm not eager to do that in any public forum, nor ought you be.
Let it suffice that there are attack vectors using mining concentration.  I suspect you may be as aware of some of them as I, if you look at it critically.

That the current concentrators are eminently honorable and not presently subjected to coercive forces is nice, like a sunny spring day... but that is not to imagine that it won't sometimes rain.  It remains a systemic threat that smart folks are working on resolving in many ways.  I think they are not wasting their time.

A.A. also publicly dismisses and minimizes these threats.  I respect his position, but my own is very different from his.  I am less concerned with speedy adoption, and more with getting it as right as we can ahead of that and looking at it holistically.  With the prospects of "darker" more private coins, the discovery of malfeasance is increasingly difficult.

I tend to think that adoption will happen in its own time now anyway.  All the opposition are their own worst enemies.  Adoption is inevitable, excellence is what takes and deserves the effort.

To this end, thinking about this on the weekend, in 2010 when ArtForz developed the OpenGL GPU mining algorithm, he obviously realised quickly he had to make it publicly available, or he would be controlling the Bitcoin network, in open sourcing his innovation after a brief profiteering, he not only secured his investment in the network but secured the network it’s self.

Now the vertically-integrated operation  GHash.IO / CEX / BitFury / setup is in the same position, as you point our the owners intentions can easily be subverted by kidnapping his family or by any other Power Structures attack method, looking at the human rights violations underway in the Ukraine, it wouldn’t be a surprise if some of that 3 billion war loan from the IMF is directed to this end.  

So decentralisation is the only defense, what that essentially means is BitFury/CEX/Ghash, have to start securing there profit by commoditising the distribution of their ASIC’s, much like ArtForz opted for decentralised control of his competitive advantage with OpenCL mining.

If they don’t they will have to eventually compete against the existing pyramid power structures – guns bombs, propaganda and all, from a position as the underdog. What that vertically-integrated operation need to realise, is there success is dependent of decentralisation, eliminating all points if failure / attack. There undoing is going to be there myopic vision not greed, and success is almost guaranteed if they can take the long view and delay greed and opt for short term sacrifice of decentralisation.    

[Adrian-x]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

much WOW, that article paints a very bullish picture.

[BetMoose]

Just noticed we had a thread on here following BTC vs gold; wanted to share our site where we also have some gold vs bitcoin proponents!

https://www.betmoose.com/searchBets?category=&tags=&status=accepting&sort=rising_desc&text=gold

Cheers