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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2032126 times)
thezerg
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May 16, 2014, 02:29:00 PM
 #8081


not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.


There's one big flaw in your reasoning: I'm pretty sure most people don't have a safe and secure way to hold physical gold (especially 5% of their net worth). People cry about the security of crypto but to me it's a hell better to hold when looking at storage costs and costs of theft or loss. I'm sure we agree holding paper gold is no substitute.

Where am I (or most other people for that matter) going to safely store physical bullion?


Let's say you have a net worth of 1 million usd (most people have way less). 5% is 50000usd. 50000usd is around 4 small rolls of 10*1 oz gold maple leafs
http://www.apmex.com/product/79051/2014-1-oz-gold-maple-leafs-10-coin-mintdirect-tube

Don't tell me you won't be able to hide them safely somewhere. I can understand this argument for silver but gold is not bulky.


Yes, I'm going to tell you that. You need to feel extremely secure you really own your property to say the same. Also, how would you move them to another country if you needed to leave your current one?

Then I'm sorry if you are not recourceful. as for moving your gold, you simply take it with you  Grin People have done that for centuries.
...

"Who is that?" said Joseph with a smile. "You shouldn't ask 'Who is that?', You should ask 'What is that?'.
"That is five kilos of gold!"


If only it was that easy...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/world/asia/india-stomach-surgery-gold/
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El Cabron
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May 16, 2014, 02:33:10 PM
 #8082


not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.


There's one big flaw in your reasoning: I'm pretty sure most people don't have a safe and secure way to hold physical gold (especially 5% of their net worth). People cry about the security of crypto but to me it's a hell better to hold when looking at storage costs and costs of theft or loss. I'm sure we agree holding paper gold is no substitute.

Where am I (or most other people for that matter) going to safely store physical bullion?


gold is small and dense. you can hide in in a flower pot, in the water storage area of your toilet, you can wear it around your neck.

most people do not have $100,000 worth of gold they need to store, and if that really is your problem, you have a good problem to have. pretty sure you can come up with something.
 

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
El Cabron
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May 16, 2014, 02:38:19 PM
 #8083

it really is easy to move gold around. that is one of the whole points of my it has been worth so much for so long.

clearly im not a btc hater at all, but im just here saying that gold is not going away any time soon.

the us dollar and other fiat however might Smiley

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
cypherdoc (OP)
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May 16, 2014, 02:48:15 PM
 #8084


not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.


There's one big flaw in your reasoning: I'm pretty sure most people don't have a safe and secure way to hold physical gold (especially 5% of their net worth). People cry about the security of crypto but to me it's a hell better to hold when looking at storage costs and costs of theft or loss. I'm sure we agree holding paper gold is no substitute.

Where am I (or most other people for that matter) going to safely store physical bullion?


Let's say you have a net worth of 1 million usd (most people have way less). 5% is 50000usd. 50000usd is around 4 small rolls of 10*1 oz gold maple leafs
http://www.apmex.com/product/79051/2014-1-oz-gold-maple-leafs-10-coin-mintdirect-tube

Don't tell me you won't be able to hide them safely somewhere. I can understand this argument for silver but gold is not bulky.


Yes, I'm going to tell you that. You need to feel extremely secure you really own your property to say the same. Also, how would you move them to another country if you needed to leave your current one?

Then I'm sorry if you are not recourceful. as for moving your gold, you simply take it with you  Grin People have done that for centuries.
...

"Who is that?" said Joseph with a smile. "You shouldn't ask 'Who is that?', You should ask 'What is that?'.
"That is five kilos of gold!"


If only it was that easy...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/world/asia/india-stomach-surgery-gold/

It is that easy.

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-500-kg-of-gold-smuggled-into-india-every-day-1929753



wow, 5 oz or 5 gold coins.  whoop di doop!

let's face it.  i'm surprised ppl around here are talking such small amounts.  back in 2011 i had bags and bags and rolls and rolls of the stuff in my home safe.  it was a very uncomfortable feeling.  it was even worse carrying all that shit to the local bullion dealer to sell it.  almost broke my back.  no way is smuggling that stuff across a border possible.  who would even want to take that risk? 

gold is an Armageddon play where the entire internet gets shut off.  guns and bullets will do more in that situation. 
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May 16, 2014, 02:56:20 PM
 #8085



Sure gold could lose 70% of it's value before then, but fiat is dead....
 

now you can say you were right no matter what happens.
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May 16, 2014, 03:55:50 PM
 #8086



Sure gold could lose 70% of it's value before then, but fiat is dead....
 

now you can say you were right no matter what happens.

fiat can be highly unstable, i wont say gold will not lose value if they pull some stunts but my point was gold should have a place in a balanced investment portfolio.

5 to 10% is reasonable.

gold is not dead, i know im going to be able to say i was right. 5 years from now you are going to be wonder why the hell gold is still being bought and sold, i wont be.

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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May 16, 2014, 05:23:41 PM
 #8087

Gold is supremely impractical in the modern world.  Bitcoin solves every problem that gold solves and even some that gold can't solve.

fiat is dead as they have printed up too much and people will lose faith in it. people will then go back to something else, will nations use some new crypto coin to do large international trade? fuck no, they will use oil or gold. gold is a perfect for this, everyone knows where it is, what it is and how much it is worth.


there is no way in the world nigeria will take btc for their oil or ukrain will take btc for their wheat. they will not want govt debt but something real over the last 6000 years, they will want gold!

btc can break or fork or get cracked at anytime. btc is way too new to be the new world standard, in 100 years? or 50 years? maybe... in 5 years? no fucking way.

if we have a 2008 again and cant fix it by printing up money they will just keep printing until they either do buy some more time or print forever.



i love crypto, its is great but Gold is not worthless like some people keep wanting it to be.


its crazy that gold is worth anything at all, but where there is nothing else for international trade, it is what we will have to use.

not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.


anyway gold will far outlive any fiat around the world today.... and keep in mind btc could break and become worthless at any second... dont keep all your money in one basket... you need some gold in case the massive massive fail that we know will happen happens...  (get some silver too)


goat out...
You are mixing two issues together which are unrelated.  Gold will outlive fiat is like saying the earth or the sun will outlive fiat.  Until a way to convert energy into specific matter will be discovered it's a good idea to own some because it is a useful material of limited quantity.  But the discussion here is if gold will be used as money and therefore acquire extra value above and beyond industrial and jewelry uses.  Gold has been used in trade international or otherwise for ages but the problems with transport, assay and counter-party risk is what bitcoin solves quite elegantly.  In a world with a computer in everyone's pocket it's hard to see the rationale of using gold coins for trade.  Just the simple issue of making change requires all kinds of extra machinations.  It's like mail vs email.  Sure you can send a letter but the extra machinations ensure its use keeps declining.  Sure 5 years from now it will still be traded but you think the worlds population 5 years from now will have less computer devices or will have less interactions with the internet???  At the end of the day money is just an accounting system.  So unless something major is broken with crypto it is hard to picture the worlds population deciding to use gold to do accounting vs computers to do accounting.  That doesn't mean bitcoin will be the winner but gold as money will likely be the loser.

cypherdoc (OP)
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May 17, 2014, 11:34:37 PM
 #8088

great summary of where we are:

http://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/20140510_international_banking.pdf
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May 17, 2014, 11:35:57 PM
 #8089

explains this:

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May 17, 2014, 11:44:00 PM
 #8090

i just love these graphs.

and i still want some of this:

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May 18, 2014, 01:32:30 AM
 #8091


Damn, that is a great report. The economist doing what it does best. Thanks for sharing!
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May 20, 2014, 03:21:40 AM
 #8092

Boom
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May 20, 2014, 03:40:12 AM
 #8093

hugely disappointing intraday reversal:

El Cabron
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May 20, 2014, 09:52:42 AM
 #8094

hugely disappointing intraday reversal:




Gold is down 2.5 dollars from 30 days ago... It is fucking free falling!!!1!

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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May 20, 2014, 02:27:48 PM
 #8095

hugely disappointing intraday reversal:




Gold is down 2.5 dollars from 30 days ago... It is fucking free falling!!!1!


We touched it once. We'll touch it again.

As we blow by it. This could be it.
El Cabron
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May 20, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
 #8096

we are now down 40 cents for the last 30 days! panic!

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
thezerg
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May 20, 2014, 03:10:31 PM
 #8097


Damn, that is a great report. The economist doing what it does best. Thanks for sharing!

halfway through... great article but so far it has not been that specific in describing why the "shadow" system can offer loans banks cannot.  Is it efficiency?  Is this a poster-child example of regulatory compliance pushing an industry to the point where it can no longer function?

Edit: @Goat: troll much?  Grin  cypherdoc has previously admitted in this thread that the "collapsing" subject was meant more to trigger controversy... personally, I don't see a collapse either; I see a slow drain of value which could be completely overrun by the movement of assets currently held in fiat denominated instruments shift to non-central-bank controlled means of exchange.
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May 20, 2014, 03:27:08 PM
 #8098

we are now down 40 cents for the last 30 days! panic!

Goat

you're better off selling your gold and silver now and switching to Bitcoin.
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May 20, 2014, 03:45:05 PM
 #8099

we are now down 40 cents for the last 30 days! panic!

Goat

you're better off selling your gold and silver now and switching to Bitcoin.

I think Goat is in what's also known as a "win-win situation"
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May 20, 2014, 04:13:40 PM
 #8100

we are now down 40 cents for the last 30 days! panic!

Goat

you're better off selling your gold and silver now and switching to Bitcoin.

I think Goat is in what's also known as a "win-win situation"

what you really mean is that just b/c he said this...:



Sure gold could lose 70% of it's value before then, but fiat is dead....
 

...he can claim he was right no matter what happens. 

par for his course.
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