Scientific proof that God exists?

[IadixDev]

Im not an academic ..

You re the one throwing sophistry around 3 times a post, which is a platonist concept that you claim being paganism ..

That's how socratic method works ..


You ignored the piece about self discipline of the body

The one about the scale of the Lord

The one about witnessing wickeds and siner with your eyes while remaining in the Lord shadow


And that's only a few but at this stage I guess you already contradicted much more bible sayings ..

You are bashing hinduism, catholics,  methaphysics, arab,jesuits, cabalist, free mason, sophists and what's not ..

That's quite a stray you got here, im just doing a service to you as showing it while you complain about christian bashing...

That's what jesus said no ?

[Przemax]

Im not an academic ..

You re the one throwing sophistry around 3 times a post, which is a platonist concept that you claim being paganism ..

That's how socratic method works ..

Just because I use words does not mean Im wordist.

I use word sophistry because thats what you do. I would be platonist if I would use dialectic as a form of argument. I do not do that.

You ignored the piece about self discipline of the body

The one about the scale of the Lord

The one about witnessing wickeds and siner with your eyes while remaining in the Lord shadow

I have said what I think about the first one and the third. What was the second one?

And that's only a few but at this stage I guess you already contradicted much more bible sayings ..

Thats unfair. You can't say that. Either say what I did and where or be silent.

You are bashing hinduism, catholics,  methaphysics, arab,jesuits, cabalist, free mason, sophists and what's not ..

Im not bashing them Im saying they are contradicting the Bible message, and that the christian message is not dependant on them or refferant in any means to them. Some of them had been rebuked by Jesus himself like cabalists. Some rebuke themselves like jesuits and catholics.

That's quite a stray you got here, im just doing a service to you as showing it while you complain about christian bashing...

If you had felt I had bashed any of those Im sorry. I only ment to show how unfit they are with the Christian message.
Im quite possitive about arabs... but saying it was highly scientific society would mean they should still be highly scientific now.

That's what jesus said no ?

Yes.

[IadixDev]

The thing is there is often confusion between science and logic.

Logic is not science, mathematics is not science.

Natural science was highly developed in arabic worlds, and is a branch of methaphysics.

Logic and mathematics is a whole another thing.

The coincidence between natural science and mathematics is purely accidental.


But both metaphysics and mathematics have been developped highly throught monotheist or monist belief.

Algebra was developed throught spiritual principle, with al jabir, book of balance, as a branch of metaphysics / chemistry / alchemy.

Newton was actually an alchemist. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_occult_studies ).

All his theory are derived from stuff studied mostly in arabic worlds before.

Most mathematicians are god believers in a way or another.

Geometry was also a very mystical study at the origin.

It's said there are Pythagorean encoding in the bible.

Its very hard to actually dissociate science from religion, either science is meant as logic / mathematics, or metaphysics / algebra.

[Przemax]

The thing is there is often confusion between science and logic.

Logic is not science, mathematics is not science.

Natural science was highly developed in arabic worlds, and is a branch of methaphysics.

Logic and mathematics is a whole another thing.

The coincidence between natural science and mathematics is purely accidental.


But both metaphysics and mathematics have been developped highly throught monotheist or monist belief.

Algebra was developed throught spiritual principle, with al jabir, book of balance, as a branch of metaphysics / chemistry / alchemy.

Newton was actually an alchemist. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_occult_studies ).

All his theory are derived from stuff studied mostly in arabic worlds before.

Most mathematicians are god believers in a way or another.

Geometry was also a very mystical study at the origin.

It's said there are Pythagorean encoding in the bible.

Its very hard to actually dissociate science from religion, either science is meant as logic / mathematics, or metaphysics / algebra.

All of what you said could be just a pure coincidence. There is no hard correlation in a development of civilisation which you seem to believe. Pardon me if thats not what you mean.

You just gives coincidences. What is a hard evidence of the roots of modern science is the works and the observations of people such as F. Bacon and such.

I do not believe in what you say. And sorry in my opinion you have to believe thats true as there is no hard evidences for it.

I could want to prove they all had eat pancakes - that could be coincidence. Or anything else that some of them might have eaten.

[IadixDev]

When you study their work and how the ideas are developed it's not coincidence at all. It's completely intricate with each other, all the time, since the begining.

Not sure what you call evidence other than all the books that the scientist and mathematician ever wrote work on concept of god, of intelligence and reason in nature, in some harmonious ratio between things, that all metaphysics leading to algebra come from islamic world, work related to justice, balance in nature etc

There is no evidence of the contrary  ..

No genuine student of history of science would deny this ..


Only industrials seeing only money and profits as finality of everything who are not really scientists. . Just exploiter of existing science and mathematics for their own profit ..

[Przemax]

When you study their work and how the ideas are developed it's not coincidence at all. It's completely intricate with each other, all the time, since the begining.

Not sure what you call evidence other than all the books that the scientist and mathematician ever wrote work on concept of god, of intelligence and reason in nature, in some harmonious ratio between things, that all metaphysics leading to algebra come from islamic world, work related to justice, balance in nature etc

There is no evidence of the contrary. ..

You have no evidences. You cannot go 2300 years ago and start to trace origins of something that started only 600 years ago. Thats just impossible to prove. Its story telling. You want to believe them for some reason. In my opinion that reason is christian bashing. I dont say you are - thats just my opinion.

Thats not evidences - that something you have to believe in. Its too many variables that you ignore.

All we can know is wrong ideas are wrong ideas. You cannot say that wrong ideas lead to good ideas. Good idea could become good by disagreeing with wrong ideas not developing them. But thats not what is a definition of a good idea,

No genuine student of history of science would deny this ..

That is an irony of all this, is that a historiosophy or however you call it, is not a science.

[IadixDev]

Im looking for boyle in wikipedia


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Boyle

Robert Boyle was an alchemist;[23] and believing the transmutation of metals to be a possibility, he carried out experiments in the hope of achieving it; and he was instrumental in obtaining the repeal, in 1689, of the statute of Henry IV against multiplying gold and silver.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Boyle#Theological_interests

In addition to philosophy, Boyle devoted much time to theology, showing a very decided leaning to the practical side and an indifference to controversial polemics. At the Restoration of the king in 1660, he was favourably received at court and in 1665 would have received the provostship of Eton College had he agreed to take holy orders, but this he refused to do on the ground that his writings on religious subjects would have greater weight coming from a layman than a paid minister of the Church.

As a director of the East India Company he spent large sums in promoting the spread of Christianity in the East, contributing liberally to missionary societies and to the expenses of translating the Bible or portions of it into various languages.


Probably another coincidence  





All available evidence show this,  after can always discard all reasonable evidence and studies to pretend otherwise ..


But all studies and evidences show this



After if we cant know anything, then it's true for jesus, bible, Boyle and everything else and any claims is just make believe babbling ..


But when studying actual evidence, how actual science was formed, the path of reasoning, it's what comes out of it.

[Przemax]

Probably another coincidence  Roll Eyes

Sorry but yes.

Thats what people did that time. Like wearing silly hats. I could prove that wearing silly hats had made them smarter.

Wrong ideas are wrong. What else should I tell you. You cannot make gold out of lead without enourmous input of energy..... You just can't Im sorry to destroy your dreams.

But all studies and evidences show this Wink

Only if you want to believe thats any evidences are not coincidences. You cannot prove they are one or another.

[IadixDev]

No serious alchemist is about turning lead to gold, only scamer fake alchemist.


Philosopher stone, there is a strong hint in the name.

Philosophy is not about making gold.


But many fake alchemist pretended to be able to do this. Mostly for greed and scam.

But it was never the objective of true alchemists.


Gold is metaphor used by occultist for something of value.

Alchemy is about increasing value of raw natural things. Including human spirit through philosophy.


It's what true alchemist refer to as the "great work" refining natural things to increase their worth through knowledge, wisdom, philosophy etc.


In the metaphor lead is the coarse, raw, common, vulgarisation,  heavy s, natural state of human spirit, that can be turned to more valuable using philosophy.

[Przemax]

No serious alchemist is about turning lead to gold, only scamer fake alchemist.


Philosopher stone, there is a strong hint in the name.

Philosophy is not about making gold.


But many fake alchemist pretended to be able to do this. Mostly for greed and scam.

But it was never the objective of true alchemists.


Gold is metaphor used by occultist for something of value.

Alchemy is about increasing value of raw natural things. Including human spirit through philosophy.


It's what true alchemist refer to as the "great work" refining natural things to increase their worth through knowledge, wisdom, philosophy etc.

How do you prove, that this have anything to do with science, and it not being an intellectual fashion of some kind.

Its like you wouldnt become famous not wearing a fancy hat and not speaking about fancy alchemy something.

[IadixDev]

Because there is no or very little science that actually exist today that is not derived from this lol

Alchemy is very old art, practiced since ancient egypt, and many were not fancied at all, many had to hide, and actually most published under fake name, or using metaphor to avoid issues ..


So it's more the opposite of this

[NikS13]

God doesn't exist, get over it

[Przemax]

Because there is no or very little science that actually exist today that is not derived from this lol

Alchemy is very old art, practiced since ancient egypt, and many were not fancied at all, many had to hide, and actually most published under fake name, or using metaphor to avoid issues ..


So it's more the opposite of this

Thats just a provable nonsense. Like it would not be nonsense enough to create a term protoscience you say that every protoscientist was a pursuer of the kings art or alchemy or whatever coincidental.

How about no?

How about you are almost right, as the alchemists are almost scientist ok?

God doesn't exist, get over it Cheesy

He does. And what about science then?

[IadixDev]

When coincidence are systematic and all natural science come from alchemy it start to make it reasonable to think it's more than coincidence lol

All the al - starting thing are Arabic, al-gebra , al- chemy , al- gorithm , etc

Al = the

Gebra = gebber = jabir (book of balance first mention of algebra ever)

Chemy = you guessed ( hint on the cover of boyle book )


Etc


Again it's just objective study of the thing ..


It's more the contrary that is quite the exception ...

[Przemax]

Like I wrote before.

I admitt you almost won the debate just like alchemists are almost chemists.

Maybe its more than coincidence. Its more like people are doing the same silly stuff as others. If one is doing others are doing it too. Its called being a human - I think its prerequisite to being protoscientist. Yeah I think being human is not a coincidence.

[IadixDev]

It's hard to miss this when really studying the origin of things.

To me the only two real schools are really metaphysics and rationalism.

The greatest genius like jabir or liebniz were able to concile the two path.

It's even said there can be alchemical reading of the bible, with crucifixion and resurection and this whole she Bang as process of transformation .

Crucifix can be an alchemical symbol.

But yeah it all comes down to human mind processing of things.

I dont think it make much sense to separate religion and science, outside of the context of pure industry and profit making, the two are always very intricate with each others.

It's even almost funny how most "scientist" ignore this side of things while it's all over the place when looking into it out of the context of engineering school formating.

[Przemax]

It's hard to miss this when really studying the origin of things.

To me the only two real schools are really metaphysics and rationalism.

That all depends on definitions. Im not aware how you define those two. In my honest opinion if you believe there are only two you should stick to dualism. Because if you like pairs dualism is the way to go. Why only two?

I believe in anti-ism personaly.

[IadixDev]

Ultimately the true genius are always able to concile the two.

It's all the things with light vs matter, earth vs heaven, mind vs body etc

It's said the goal of the highest form of alchemy is also union of opposites.

All chemistry deal with electron ( - charges) proton ( + charges) etc.

Mathematics as in Pythagoras is the most elaborated system to deal with opposites in a single coherent system. It's why it's so efficient in all areas of sciences.

[Przemax]

It's even said there can be alchemical reading of the bible, with crucifixion and resurection and this whole she Bang as process of transformation .

Maybe there are. But the message of the Bible is easy for everybody. Why should I search between the lines? Jesus had said that he is not hiding anything. There is no hidden message - no secret society with secret knowledge needed.

And the holy ghost is helping people to understand even that easy straightforward message. It can be as deep as you want. Message of the gospel is wonderful, it is as easy and as hard as you want it. I'ts like the best designed computer game. Rules are simple, but it's as complex and sophisticated like you are. It's very lovely.

Ultimately the true genius are always able to concile the two.

It's all the things with light vs matter, earth vs heaven, mind vs body etc

It's said the goal of the highest form of alchemy is also union of opposites.

All chemistry deal with electron ( - charges) proton ( + charges) etc.

Mathematics as in Pythagoras is the most elaborated system to deal with opposites in a single coherent system. It's why it's so efficient in all areas of sciences.

I like to keep my mind open to any possibility. Dualism would mean, that I close the door to knowledge, because I would always seek two's. I would ignore the one's third's seventh's lol - I hope you get the point.

[IadixDev]

He says more that nothing will be hidden, as everything will be revealed one day for those who seek. As in all can be known for seekers.


For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

It's always using future tense if im not mistaken, implying things are hidden or concealed at some point.


Many of the wises says key to wisdom is able to hold paradoxes or contradictory belief in one's mind.

Recognizing dualism doesnt necessarily mean only holding to one side.