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Author Topic: Scientific proof that God exists?  (Read 799962 times)
IadixDev
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July 28, 2017, 10:41:32 PM
 #7341

said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself. There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.

Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)

Things can exist as unmanifested "pure potential" before they "exists" as in manifesting themselves.

It's not because we dont understand the cause or reason that there isnt one.

Time is one dimension in the 4d  space according to relativity, and is affected by the nature of space itself.

God is not "sitting in the clouds" but exist as idea in the sky = mental plane = realm of idea.
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July 29, 2017, 12:43:51 AM
 #7342

said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself. There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.

Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)

Things can exist as unmanifested "pure potential" before they "exists" as in manifesting themselves.

It's not because we dont understand the cause or reason that there isnt one.

Time is one dimension in the 4d  space according to relativity, and is affected by the nature of space itself.

God is not "sitting in the clouds" but exist as idea in the sky = mental plane = realm of idea.
I have heard some lucid explanations for how "infinity became aware"; consider this:

The One Infinite Creator
The Law of One states that there is only one, and that one is the Infinite Creator (4.20), which Ra also calls “Infinite Intelligence” and “Intelligent Infinity.” It is impossible to describe the “one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole,” but It can be activated or potentiated (28.1). Each portion of the creation contains, paradoxically, the whole (13.13).

Illusion
Since all is one, all manifestation, or appearance of many-ness, is an illusion (1.6, 106.23). According to Ra, it is an illusion carefully engineered in order to give the Creator the opportunity to know Itself (27.17).
http://www.lawofone.info/synopsis.php

Philosophical Materialism is the philosophy of atheist scientists. I also claim that all rational atheists are humanists and that humanism is false based on readily available evidence.

"I don’t think the brain came in the Darwinian manner. In fact, it is disprovable. Simple mechanism can’t yield the brain. I think the basic elements of the universe are simple. Life force is a primitive element of the universe and it obeys certain laws of action. These laws are not simple, and they are not mechanical. "
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July 29, 2017, 12:50:09 AM
 #7343


I have heard some lucid explanations for how "infinity became aware"; consider this:

The One Infinite Creator
The Law of One states that there is only one, and that one is the Infinite Creator (4.20), which Ra also calls “Infinite Intelligence” and “Intelligent Infinity.” It is impossible to describe the “one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole,” but It can be activated or potentiated (28.1). Each portion of the creation contains, paradoxically, the whole (13.13).

Illusion
Since all is one, all manifestation, or appearance of many-ness, is an illusion (1.6, 106.23). According to Ra, it is an illusion carefully engineered in order to give the Creator the opportunity to know Itself (27.17).
http://www.lawofone.info/synopsis.php

Philosophical Materialism is the philosophy of atheist scientists. I also claim that all rational atheists are humanists and that humanism is false based on readily available evidence.

Those principle come from platonism or neo platonism.

Like plotinus
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotinus

"Materialism" is more or less aristotle metaphysics / natural science / empirism.

"Rationalism" is more or less socratic/platonic/euclidian .

The thing of the illusion of changing appearence vs permanent truth is from parmenides.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmenides

All conceptions of reality are the result of a mental process, no more no less.

Cultivating the mental process of understanding  ( aka rationalism ) is more important than cultivating memory of facts ( aka empirism ).


The concept of true or false can be interpreted both in term of factual evidence, or in the context of rational analysis like euclidian axiomatic reasoning.  

In the context of axiomatic reasoning, truth is not about "factual evidence" but  about logical deduction from axioms.


There is no "factual evidence" that 1+1=2, arithmetics, or to euclidian geometric principle, just logical deduction from axioms.


Riemann show very well the problematics of finding the good axiomatic model or geometry / space to describe physics, as there is no manner to demonstrate which geometry or axioms are true or false in themselves as far as physics is concerned.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemannian_geometry

http://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783319260402
On the Hypotheses Which Lie at the Bases of Geometry.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe

Relativity is special case of riemannian geometry, and show to be the more accurate model of space that correspond to physics so far.

Before riemann it was assumed euclidian geometry and axioms were more or less same than truth or physics.


Humanism is quite subjective concept, but it would be often considered platonic or socratic model are more humanist, they lead to republic in politics,  "science" derived from empirism, aka interpretation of facts lead to oligarchy, as long as this interpretation cannot be demonstrated rationally.


For plato truth is deeply related to good or justice, and concerned with humanism.

"I don’t think the brain came in the Darwinian manner. In fact, it is disprovable. Simple mechanism can’t yield the brain. I think the basic elements of the universe are simple. Life force is a primitive element of the universe and it obeys certain laws of action. These laws are not simple, and they are not mechanical. "

There are some good demonstration of this problematics in this book.

Between Leibniz, Newton, and Kant: Philosophy and Science in the Eighteenth

https://books.google.fr/books?id=D5fcBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT118&dq=leibniz%20mechanics%20vs%20newton&pg=PT21#v=onepage&q&f=false



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July 29, 2017, 06:11:48 AM
 #7344


I will quote from valerian as i just saw it lol

Love without limit, very cheap is the love that can be counted


This can apply for god too  Grin
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July 29, 2017, 10:34:17 AM
 #7345

Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.

More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.

Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.

I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol

Kinda show something too ..

It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world

French : always complaining,  never happy, always needs more.

American : more or less same.

Drama drama.

Money money.


The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol

Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.


As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.

Specially in developed country,  it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.

And nature already provide enough food .

Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Cool


You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?

Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)

Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.

"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.

Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.

You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.


Cool

So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?



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HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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July 29, 2017, 11:05:52 AM
 #7346

Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.

More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.

Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.

I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol

Kinda show something too ..

It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world

French : always complaining,  never happy, always needs more.

American : more or less same.

Drama drama.

Money money.


The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol

Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.


As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.

Specially in developed country,  it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.

And nature already provide enough food .

Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Cool


You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?

Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)

Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.

"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.

Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.

You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.


Cool

So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?

Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.

God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.

Cool
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July 29, 2017, 12:24:40 PM
 #7347

Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.

More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.

Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.

I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol

Kinda show something too ..

It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world

French : always complaining,  never happy, always needs more.

American : more or less same.

Drama drama.

Money money.


The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol

Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.


As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.

Specially in developed country,  it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.

And nature already provide enough food .

Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Cool


You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?

Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)

Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.

"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.

Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.

You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.


Cool

So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?

Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.

God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.

Cool

''In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.'' - Badecker 2017

Why would things outside the universe have no cause? How can you possibly know that? You are claiming to know things that are impossible to know, you are a joke.



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HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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July 29, 2017, 12:40:51 PM
 #7348

Actually it doesnt matter if science proof that God exist or not. What matters the most is you are believing that God exist. Even if you do not see God visually but in your heart, He is true. Just keep your faith towards Him, do not doubt in His words and plans to you.

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July 29, 2017, 03:12:23 PM
 #7349

Need to read the kaballah with the original void Smiley

All religion with god In heaven and angels as messenger are derived from the kaballah.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah#Tzimtzum.2C_Shevirah_and_Tikkun

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/kabbalah/Creation/creation.html


http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Realism/realism.html
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July 29, 2017, 06:24:03 PM
 #7350

Actually it doesnt matter if science proof that God exist or not. What matters the most is you are believing that God exist. Even if you do not see God visually but in your heart, He is true. Just keep your faith towards Him, do not doubt in His words and plans to you.

But people die and God lives forever. So it doesn't really matter what you believe... except if it matters to the emotional heart of God.

Cool
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July 29, 2017, 06:27:01 PM
 #7351

Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.

More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.

Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.

I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol

Kinda show something too ..

It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world

French : always complaining,  never happy, always needs more.

American : more or less same.

Drama drama.

Money money.


The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol

Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.


As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.

Specially in developed country,  it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.

And nature already provide enough food .

Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Cool


You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?

Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)

Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.

"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.

Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.

You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.


Cool

So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?

Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.

God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.

Cool

''In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.'' - Badecker 2017

Why would things outside the universe have no cause? How can you possibly know that? You are claiming to know things that are impossible to know, you are a joke.

You are so funny. You write the answer to your question. Then you ask the question right below it.

In the past you would ask a question, the answer to which was written several posts up. Now you are asking the question directly following its answer.

You are becoming rather humorous.

 Cheesy
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July 29, 2017, 08:19:01 PM
 #7352

Im not sure god has to be seen as something to provide for material needs.

More something to train spirit to be less dependent on materialism.

Im for one encouraging the practice of fasting to train the body to be less driven by needs.

I saw a video last time showing the tibetan kids, walking with bare foot for kilometers in the Mountain, all smiling & all, and they were like look at those chinese Kids they are lazy they cant walk a Mile without crying like babies lol

Kinda show something too ..

It's funny also to see on my facebook as i have friends from all over the world

French : always complaining,  never happy, always needs more.

American : more or less same.

Drama drama.

Money money.


The only who are just chilling with familly & friend and being smiling and happy not complaining about politics & economy are the one from south africa, or hispanics lol and they have not really much money or food lol

Even if you travel to islands like reunion or new caledonia, even burma, people live with very little and they are much less miserable than when moving back to big cities like Paris london or new York.


As long as you focus on your material needs and fear of lacking your always going to be scared of everything, anxiety & co.

Specially in developed country,  it's not like there is really that much scarcity of anything.

And nature already provide enough food .

Cause and effect shows that God is the source of all things. It works like this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Cool


You said cause and effect doesn't prove god in an earlier post.<- You misquote me. I said that C&E alone doesn't prove God. We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously.<- Haven't found a spontaneous event that we know factually is spontaneous. But we have countless billions of C&E events. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause. The universe might not need a ''cause'' either, time might not be viewed as a vector quantity, but rather a scaler one. Under this, there are no beginnings, and the universe was the start of time itself.<- Have you read Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz? There was no time when the universe began to exist, because there is no 'before' time itself didn't exist. Just because something caused the universe, doesn't mean a god did so.<- Under the circumstances of the universe, where C&E, entropy, and complexity exist as they do, show me something that fits the definition of "God" but is not God. Also, there is a jump between 'something happened' and 'a man sits on a cloud watching humanity and rewarding good people with eternal life, meanwhile controlling everything' that the first cause argument fails to solve.<- God is not man. Man may have some of God's attributes. When God understands and controls everything, He does it in ways that man barely understands at all. Or have you been tracking a molecule of wind as it travels around the world?

Finally, and perhaps most damningly, the argument has a serious loophole. One of the premises is everything needs a cause, yet the argument fails to say where God came from. (Which you never explained)

Actually, you never seem to listen - or is it comprehend - when I tell you about where God came from.

"Things" are of this universe. Since God is not of this universe, He is not a thing. But if He takes on the quality of a thing to some extent, He still maintains his quality of NOT being a thing. C&E isn't something that effects God unless He wants to be affected by it.

Like we barely know any details about the universe, in the same way our limitations keep us from knowing anything about that which is outside of the universe. Questions about the details of the things that make up God are not even things that we can ask, because God is so extremely different than us.

You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.


Cool

So because god is outside the universe he doesn't need a cause? How did you determine that?

Cause is only something that applies to this universe. In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.

God doesn't have a cause. You are wasting your time with this constant questioning, which does not apply to God even as a question.

Cool

''In Heaven, or in some other universe, there might be a corresponding thing like cause. However, it isn't cause. If it were, it would be part of this universe rather than being outside of this universe.'' - Badecker 2017

Why would things outside the universe have no cause? How can you possibly know that? You are claiming to know things that are impossible to know, you are a joke.

You are so funny. You write the answer to your question. Then you ask the question right below it.

In the past you would ask a question, the answer to which was written several posts up. Now you are asking the question directly following its answer.

You are becoming rather humorous.

 Cheesy

Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.



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.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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July 29, 2017, 08:36:27 PM
 #7353

I do not know what, but I am very concerned about the directions of atheism in humanity. Blasphemy is a very great sin and it seems to me that today the whole planet suffers from this disease.

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July 29, 2017, 09:12:44 PM
 #7354

I do not know what, but I am very concerned about the directions of atheism in humanity. Blasphemy is a very great sin and it seems to me that today the whole planet suffers from this disease.

Believing in the bible is also a sin in other religions so i don't know about the directions of christianity. Believing in other gods is a great sin and it seems to me that everyone believes in different gods.



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July 29, 2017, 09:50:27 PM
 #7355

I do not know what, but I am very concerned about the directions of atheism in humanity. Blasphemy is a very great sin and it seems to me that today the whole planet suffers from this disease.

Believing in the bible is also a sin in other religions so i don't know about the directions of christianity. Believing in other gods is a great sin and it seems to me that everyone believes in different gods.

Searching for truth in honest maner always converge to the same things.

Believing in the bible is sin in which religion ? Your's ?

All religions agree on many things, only the impurity in the individual understanding create divergence.

Or cultural indoctrination that goes against the teaching.
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July 29, 2017, 11:13:15 PM
 #7356


Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.

The claim isn't what makes it true. The fact that if it has a cause, it is part of our universe. This is what makes it true.

In other words, show us something that is not part of the universe, yet has a cause.

Cool
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July 30, 2017, 12:06:44 AM
 #7357


Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.

The claim isn't what makes it true. The fact that if it has a cause, it is part of our universe. This is what makes it true.

In other words, show us something that is not part of the universe, yet has a cause.

Cool

How would I do that? Have you studied something that is outside the universe? If it has a cause it's a part of the universe and if it doesn't, it's not? How do you know all this, maybe you are god.



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July 30, 2017, 12:25:08 AM
 #7358

actually i belive Gods, even without science

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July 30, 2017, 07:34:54 AM
 #7359


Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.

The claim isn't what makes it true. The fact that if it has a cause, it is part of our universe. This is what makes it true.

In other words, show us something that is not part of the universe, yet has a cause.

Cool

How would I do that? Have you studied something that is outside the universe? If it has a cause it's a part of the universe and if it doesn't, it's not? How do you know all this, maybe you are god.

Answered your questions, here, already.    Cool
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July 30, 2017, 09:00:48 AM
 #7360


Claiming that everything outside the universe needs no cause doesn't make it true.

The claim isn't what makes it true. The fact that if it has a cause, it is part of our universe. This is what makes it true.

In other words, show us something that is not part of the universe, yet has a cause.

Cool

How would I do that? Have you studied something that is outside the universe? If it has a cause it's a part of the universe and if it doesn't, it's not? How do you know all this, maybe you are god.

Answered your questions, here, already.    Cool

No, you just claimed things without any evidence. You said that is a fact that if something has a cause it must be part of our universe, where is the evidence backing that statement?



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