Scientific proof that God exists?

[IadixDev]

tests are not stories, they are scientific observations. A measurement of the power of mind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Rama

Śrī Swāmī Rāma (1925–1996) was an Indian yógī. Several Indian yogis have influenced Westerners including Swami Vivekananda, Ramkrishna Paramhansa, Paramhansa Yogananda and many more. Swami Rama was one of the first yogis, however, to be studied by Western scientists. In the 1960s he was examined by scientists at the Menninger Clinic who studied his ability to voluntarily control bodily processes (such as heartbeat, blood pressure, and body temperature) that are normally considered to be non-voluntary (autonomic).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_nidra#Scientific_evaluation


The swami demonstrated the capacity to enter the various states of consciousness at will, as evidenced by remarkable changes in the electrical activity of his brain. Upon relaxing himself in the laboratory, he first entered the yoga nidra state, producing 70% alpha wave discharge for a predetermined 5 minute period, simply by imagining an empty blue sky with occasional drifting clouds. [7] Next, Swami Rama entered a state of dreaming sleep which was accompanied by slower theta waves for 75% of the subsequent 5 minute test period.[7] This state, which he later described as being "noisy and unpleasant", was attained by "stilling the conscious mind and bringing forth the subconscious". In this state he had the internal experience of desires, ambitions, memories and past images in archetypal form rising sequentially from the subconscious and unconscious with a rush, each archetype occupying his whole awareness.[7]

Finally, the swami entered the state of (usually unconscious) deep sleep, as verified by the emergence of the characteristic pattern of slow rhythm delta waves. However, he remained perfectly aware throughout the entire experimental period.[7] He later recalled the various events which had occurred in the laboratory during the experiment, including all the questions that one of the scientists had asked him during the period of deep delta wave sleep, while his body lay snoring quietly.


http://www.consciouslifestylemag.com/siddhis-attain-yoga-powers/

Mainstream science is not so sure. Many scientists and scholars trained within the Western worldview regard such powers not as supernormal capacities of the human mind, but as superstitions used solely to promote religious faith.


“In Buddhism, these are not miracles in the sense of being supernatural events, any more than the discovery and amazing uses of lasers are miraculous— however they may appear to those ignorant of the nature and potentials of light. Such contemplatives claim to have realized the nature and potentials of consciousness far beyond anything known in contemporary science. What may appear supernatural to a scientist or a layperson may seem perfectly natural to an advanced contemplative, much as certain technological advances may appear miraculous to a contemplative.”

Attaining The Siddhis

“The whole history of science shows us that whenever the educated and scientific men of any age have denied the facts of other investigators on a priori grounds of absurdity or impossibility, the deniers have always been wrong.”

— Alfred Russell Wallace

The Yoga Sutras provide a taxonomy of supernormal mental powers and a means of obtaining them. Today we would classify most of the siddhis as various forms of psychic, or psi, phenomena. Others might be called exceptionally precise means of controlling the mind- body relationship.


Before we begin our scientific examination of the siddhis, it is noteworthy that Patanjali and others specifically highlighted the dangers  of dwelling on the siddhis. Patanjali states in Sutra III.51 a warning that may be translated as:

Avoid invitations to display or identify with any accomplishments in yoga, including the siddhis, even if invited by a respected person, because this can reinforce one’s sense of separate self, leading to ego, pride, and arrogance, and this becomes an impediment toward further spiritual unfoldment. There are many ways that this trap can manifest. If personal pride or greed causes one to be seduced by the ever-present challenge of proving one’s abilities to skeptics, such as using psychic abilities to win a prize, then the power gained by that seduction is likely to corrupt the ethical restraints that are the very first lesson to learn on the eightfold path. That “power corrupts” is an unavoidable truth in human affairs, and the consequences of the fall in this case are profound because the goal of achieving enlightenment, which requires far more discipline than simply developing clairvoyance, is lost. Even if one does not personally identify with an attained siddhi, and instead attributes it to one’s teacher or a particular lineage, the damage is done.

[Przemax]

There are another evidences of the Bible credibility. It shows why it is rational to assume, the firnament of heavens in fact does exist, like it is explained in the Bible. Its the Karmans line on 100km above the ground. I will point out on why the glass is likely to be in the sky:



Another scientific evidences came from Ruperth Sheldrake. He had found scientificly that if one person is doing something around the world the other has easier time of learning that thing. Even when they had not physicly met. So its something that our lovely oriental/cabalistic friends are implying, but without all that Hindu "empty your mind" stuff and other metaphysical nonesense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

There are many evidences of biological truth from the Bible. For example every animal can reproduce only within its own kind. Where the kind is for example a dog, where fox, wolf and a dog are dogs etc etc.

So to summarise, there are genetical, biological, geographical, astonomical, physical, antropological and historical evidences of the Bible being right. Probably many many more are to be discovered still.

[IadixDev]

Metaphysics is the basic of natural science.

The first person to coin the term science also wrote the metaphysics. ( aristotle )

Emptying your mind is not "hindu stuff" lol

The thing on firmament ok, are you serious ?    


But otherwise yes there are many truth in ancient texts and scripture

[Przemax]

Metaphysics is the basic of natural science.

The first person to coin the term science also wrote the metaphysics. ( aristotle )

Emptying your mind is not "hindu stuff" lol

The rest ok, are you serious ?    

Observations and the experiments is the basis of natural science. Aristotle was more wrong than he was right.

The rest - why should I not be serious? Thats just logic, observation and deduction. Make your own mind if that is worth of taking into account. Or maybe you know only a meditation and yoga techniques.

But otherwise yes there are many truth in ancient texts and scripture Smiley

No. Im talking about the Bible specifically. Maybe some of the Wedas I would consider worth reading and to examine, but with a very critical and sharp mind.

[IadixDev]

Metaphysics is the basic of natural science.

The first person to coin the term science also wrote the metaphysics. ( aristotle )

Emptying your mind is not "hindu stuff" lol

The rest ok, are you serious ?    

Observations and the experiments is the basis of natural science. Aristotle was more wrong than he was right.

The rest - why should I not be serious? Thats just logic, observation and deduction. Make your own mind if that is worth of taking into account. Or maybe you know only a meditation and yoga techniques.

He is still the one who started to study object, classify knowledge as science, make observation write encyclopedia etc and the one who wrote metaphysics, which is the starting point of natural science, followed by arab , up to newton who studied deeply alchemy, and he wrote extensively on alchemy too.

He was the closest to the view of natural science in the Greek antiquity. More or less the one who invented natural science.

Methaphysics, natural science & alchemy are very close to each other.

You really think there is a glass firmament in the sky above earth ? Lol

[Przemax]

Metaphysics is the basic of natural science.

The first person to coin the term science also wrote the metaphysics. ( aristotle )

Emptying your mind is not "hindu stuff" lol

The rest ok, are you serious ?    

Observations and the experiments is the basis of natural science. Aristotle was more wrong than he was right.

The rest - why should I not be serious? Thats just logic, observation and deduction. Make your own mind if that is worth of taking into account. Or maybe you know only a meditation and yoga techniques.

He is still the one who started to study object, classify knowledge as science, write encyclopedia etc and the one who wrote metaphysics, which is the starting point of natural science, followed by arab , up to newton who studied deeply alchemy, and he wrote extensively on alchemy too.

Methaphysics, natural science & alchemy are very close to each other.

You act like if all the world started with Aristotle and Arabs.... Give me a break with that ok? Thats an obvious sign of indoctrination by the Jesuits one way or another and their beloved "Saint" Thomas.

[IadixDev]

Im just pointing to the origin of science lol

Before aristotle, no science. And he has been forgotten in occident for 1500 years.

So actually yes, the world of science started with aristotle and the arab.

I dont know any jesuits that I know of, im just trying to set the truth of the matter about science and metaphysics.

Not my fault if you are indoctrinated to think anything that make sense out of the 3 pages of bibles you have read come from jesuits or free mason, cabalist or hindu stuff lol

[Przemax]

Im just pointing to the origin of science lol

Before aristotle, no science. And he has been forgotten in occident for 1500 years.

So actually yes, the world of science started with aristotle and the arab.

I dont know any jesuits that I know of, im just trying to set the truth of the matter about science and metaphysics.

Not my fault if you are indoctrinated to think anything that make sense out of the 3 pages of bibles you have read come from jesuits or free mason, cabalist or hindu stuff lol

Methaphysics, natural science & alchemy are very close to each other.

So explain one thing to me. Before the Aristotle the natural observations was the basis of greek philosophy, after the Aristotle almost non had indentify philosophy with natural observations. And how would you explain that after the overthrow of metaphysics from natural science it has become a very succesful science made by puritans.

Yes there is a connection - its exclude itself like day and a night.

Jesuits control the education. I know. I've been there, seen it, and I do not agree with them on many topics.

[IadixDev]

Greek philosophy is not about natural observation. Rational Philosophy is not about observation. Euclidian geometry is not about observation. Socratic method is not about obszrvation. I posted about this in previous post.

Read plato  ( rationalism, pre christianism) vs aristotle natural science, empirism, metaphysics.

Natural science is different from rational philosophy and mathematics.

[Przemax]

Greek philosophy is not about natural observation. Rational Philosophy is not about observation. Euclidian geometry is not about observation. Socratic method is not about obszrvation. I posted about this in previous post.

Read plato  ( rationalism, pre christianism) vs aristotle natural science, empirism, metaphysics.

Natural science is different from rational philosophy and mathematics.

I don't care about what they had taught you ok? Plato was a pagan not a christian. And there were a lot of people that wanted to found a logos in nature, objects, forms and such.

There were a variety of schools of thoughts before greeks, persian, indian, babylonian, asyrian, egyptian and so on and so forth.

None of it, not even aristotle or arabs were scientific, no matter anyone had told you. Science is a method of inquiry based on the scientific method. And thats it. Anything else you say about the science is just unprovable sophistry ok?

Why would I idolise a man? Thats a paganry. Leave that to yourself ok? Im far from a notion that one man can change the world ok? If you do you are a pagan and your god is not my God, so why would I care about what you think, if Im right, on what proves his existance? You can prove the existance of your god, you need to indentify him first. My God is the God of the Bible.

You love the idea, that is being pushed, because thats a christian bashing. It has no substance at all. Nada. Nicht. Makes no sense. Make sense only to people wanting to bash christian on the face.

[qwik2learn]

Listen up, Astargath!

You are posting but not doing research, that is not how these discussions work! Do your homework before you claim to know something, otherwise you are only promoting an opinion, I will now show you why your opinion is unreasonable by proving that your claims are unreliable.

Most magicians when they do this kind of thing, well you know that it’s all a show, however in Guy Bavli’s case he tells everyone it is real.

You gave me no reference to the specific tests so you did not even bother to do any work to make sure your opinion about these tests was accurate. You did not conduct a scientific criticism so I will naturally reject your unfounded claims about this phenomenon.
How is it that a mentalist can produce such a distinct and obviously mysterious illusion that also has a unique signature on the EEG? You don't have a clue about how your simple explanation applies in practice? How is Occam's Razor supposed to explain a phenomenon like that without TK? Why is it that the "fake/fraud/illusion" explanation quickly falls apart when faced with having to explain the mountains of evidence already posted here?

40 cases: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml
EEG of telekinesis in action: http://eegym.com/can-eeg-tell-if-telekinesis-is-a-magicians-trick-2/
Find the telekinesis video on your own: http://googl.com/#q=telekinesis+superhumans

I mean we already discussed the 40 cases link and they were all bullshit and debunked so from there on I just didn't really care about what you had to say. I will say it again, where are the applications if all those things you claim are real, where are the applications?

Besides not addressing case #1 at all,
You brought up mostly invalid points for the 40 cases, you obviously failed to consider the totality of the evidence and instead focused on prejudices like "the researcher believes in GOD, so he is not reliable". You still hold to the fallacy that survival has been ruled out, you thereby avoid giving a complete account of the evidence. What good is science if you are expecting an outcome and will ignore the results if they do not meet those expectations?

You never replied to my questions about your burden of proof:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg19336271#msg19336271

You think that you have no burden of proof in this discussion, that is why you never make an ADEQUATE rebuttal. All the other atheists who argued with me have stopped responding too.

Because it is a huge problem if the researchers already believe in that. How many times did christians claim to find the noah's ark and it turned out to be false? It is the same with them and since there is no concrete evidence a part from eye witnesses and stories there is no point in believing any of it. There are ton of stories about ton of ''paranormal'' phenomena but there is never concrete evidence, just stories. There is no point in believing any of it and I don't gain anything by believing on it either, I don't know what you are getting from it.

These tests are not stories, they are scientific observations. A measurement of the power of mind.

It is claimed to be a test but if it really was a scientific test, don't you think we would already hear about this all the time? Don't you think scientists would have applied that to something? Why do you think virtually all scientists do not believe in that kind of stuff if it really was proved to be true? You think they purposely say it's false?

A famous paper recently showed that the claimed results of most scientific studies are simply false:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
So why should we BLINDLY trust mainstream opinion of scientists (an opinion based in ignorance)? Stick to hard evidence and you will be fine. I have disclosed the evidence, so anyone who doubts it can debate the facts with me.
In my opinion, the scientists who reject survival are also wrong, but the brightest scientists like Wallace did find evidence and cocncluded that survival is real.

[Przemax]

Listen up, Astargath!

You are posting but not doing research, that is not how these discussions work! Do your homework before you claim to know something, otherwise you are only promoting an opinion, I will now show you why your opinion is unreasonable by proving that your claims are unreliable.

Most magicians when they do this kind of thing, well you know that it’s all a show, however in Guy Bavli’s case he tells everyone it is real.

You gave me no reference to the specific tests so you did not even bother to do any work to make sure your opinion about these tests was accurate. You did not conduct a scientific criticism so I will naturally reject your unfounded claims about this phenomenon.
How is it that a mentalist can produce such a distinct and obviously mysterious illusion that also has a unique signature on the EEG? You don't have a clue about how your simple explanation applies in practice? How is Occam's Razor supposed to explain a phenomenon like that without TK? Why is it that the "fake/fraud/illusion" explanation quickly falls apart when faced with having to explain the mountains of evidence already posted here?

40 cases: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml
EEG of telekinesis in action: http://eegym.com/can-eeg-tell-if-telekinesis-is-a-magicians-trick-2/
Find the telekinesis video on your own: http://googl.com/#q=telekinesis+superhumans

I mean we already discussed the 40 cases link and they were all bullshit and debunked so from there on I just didn't really care about what you had to say. I will say it again, where are the applications if all those things you claim are real, where are the applications?

Besides not addressing case #1 at all,
You brought up mostly invalid points for the 40 cases, you obviously failed to consider the totality of the evidence and instead focused on prejudices like "the researcher believes in GOD, so he is not reliable". You still hold to the fallacy that survival has been ruled out, you thereby avoid giving a complete account of the evidence. What good is science if you are expecting an outcome and will ignore the results if they do not meet those expectations?

You never replied to my questions about your burden of proof:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg19336271#msg19336271

You think that you have no burden of proof in this discussion, that is why you never make an ADEQUATE rebuttal. All the other atheists who argued with me have stopped responding too.

Because it is a huge problem if the researchers already believe in that. How many times did christians claim to find the noah's ark and it turned out to be false? It is the same with them and since there is no concrete evidence a part from eye witnesses and stories there is no point in believing any of it. There are ton of stories about ton of ''paranormal'' phenomena but there is never concrete evidence, just stories. There is no point in believing any of it and I don't gain anything by believing on it either, I don't know what you are getting from it.

These tests are not stories, they are scientific observations. A measurement of the power of mind.

It is claimed to be a test but if it really was a scientific test, don't you think we would already hear about this all the time? Don't you think scientists would have applied that to something? Why do you think virtually all scientists do not believe in that kind of stuff if it really was proved to be true? You think they purposely say it's false?

A famous paper recently showed that the claimed results of most scientific studies are simply false:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
So why should we BLINDLY trust mainstream opinion of scientists (an opinion based in ignorance)? Stick to hard evidence and you will be fine. I have disclosed the evidence, so anyone who doubts it can debate the facts with me.
In my opinion, the scientists who reject survival are also wrong, but the brightest scientists like Wallace did find evidence and cocncluded that survival is real.

Im not on the subject. What if its real? Is the experiment falsifiable? If not, thats a doubtful science at best.

Are the experiments repeatable? If not, its hard to call it science actually.

And what if you are right. How does that proves God? It proves the existance of spirits not God per se.

[Astargath]

Listen up, Astargath!

You are posting but not doing research, that is not how these discussions work! Do your homework before you claim to know something, otherwise you are only promoting an opinion, I will now show you why your opinion is unreasonable by proving that your claims are unreliable.

Most magicians when they do this kind of thing, well you know that it’s all a show, however in Guy Bavli’s case he tells everyone it is real.

You gave me no reference to the specific tests so you did not even bother to do any work to make sure your opinion about these tests was accurate. You did not conduct a scientific criticism so I will naturally reject your unfounded claims about this phenomenon.
How is it that a mentalist can produce such a distinct and obviously mysterious illusion that also has a unique signature on the EEG? You don't have a clue about how your simple explanation applies in practice? How is Occam's Razor supposed to explain a phenomenon like that without TK? Why is it that the "fake/fraud/illusion" explanation quickly falls apart when faced with having to explain the mountains of evidence already posted here?

40 cases: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml
EEG of telekinesis in action: http://eegym.com/can-eeg-tell-if-telekinesis-is-a-magicians-trick-2/
Find the telekinesis video on your own: http://googl.com/#q=telekinesis+superhumans

I mean we already discussed the 40 cases link and they were all bullshit and debunked so from there on I just didn't really care about what you had to say. I will say it again, where are the applications if all those things you claim are real, where are the applications?

Besides not addressing case #1 at all,
You brought up mostly invalid points for the 40 cases, you obviously failed to consider the totality of the evidence and instead focused on prejudices like "the researcher believes in GOD, so he is not reliable". You still hold to the fallacy that survival has been ruled out, you thereby avoid giving a complete account of the evidence. What good is science if you are expecting an outcome and will ignore the results if they do not meet those expectations?

You never replied to my questions about your burden of proof:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg19336271#msg19336271

You think that you have no burden of proof in this discussion, that is why you never make an ADEQUATE rebuttal. All the other atheists who argued with me have stopped responding too.

Because it is a huge problem if the researchers already believe in that. How many times did christians claim to find the noah's ark and it turned out to be false? It is the same with them and since there is no concrete evidence a part from eye witnesses and stories there is no point in believing any of it. There are ton of stories about ton of ''paranormal'' phenomena but there is never concrete evidence, just stories. There is no point in believing any of it and I don't gain anything by believing on it either, I don't know what you are getting from it.

These tests are not stories, they are scientific observations. A measurement of the power of mind.

It is claimed to be a test but if it really was a scientific test, don't you think we would already hear about this all the time? Don't you think scientists would have applied that to something? Why do you think virtually all scientists do not believe in that kind of stuff if it really was proved to be true? You think they purposely say it's false?

A famous paper recently showed that the claimed results of most scientific studies are simply false:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
So why should we BLINDLY trust mainstream opinion of scientists (an opinion based in ignorance)? Stick to hard evidence and you will be fine. I have disclosed the evidence, so anyone who doubts it can debate the facts with me.
In my opinion, the scientists who reject survival are also wrong, but the brightest scientists like Wallace did find evidence and cocncluded that survival is real.

Im not on the subject. What if its real? Is the experiment falsifiable? If not, thats a doubtful science at best.

Are the experiments repeatable? If not, its hard to call it science actually.

And what if you are right. How does that proves God? It proves the existance of spirits not God per se.

Also, if you believe most studies are false why do you believe so hard in 1 study you found that ''proved'' what you claim, doesn't make much sense to me.

[IadixDev]

Greek philosophy is not about natural observation. Rational Philosophy is not about observation. Euclidian geometry is not about observation. Socratic method is not about obszrvation. I posted about this in previous post.

Read plato  ( rationalism, pre christianism) vs aristotle natural science, empirism, metaphysics.

Natural science is different from rational philosophy and mathematics.

I don't care about what they had taught you ok? Plato was a pagan not a christian. And there were a lot of people that wanted to found a logos in nature, objects, forms and such.

There were a variety of schools of thoughts before greeks, persian, indian, babylonian, asyrian, egyptian and so on and so forth.

None of it, not even aristotle or arabs were scientific, no matter anyone had told you. Science is a method of inquiry based on the scientific method. And thats it. Anything else you say about the science is just unprovable sophistry ok?

Why would I idolise a man? Thats a paganry. Leave that to yourself ok? Im far from a notion that one man can change the world ok? If you do you are a pagan and your god is not my God, so why would I care about what you think, if Im right, on what proves his existance? You can prove the existance of your god, you need to indentify him first. My God is the God of the Bible.

You love the idea, that is being pushed, because thats a christian bashing. It has no substance at all. Nada. Nicht. Makes no sense. Make sense only to people wanting to bash christian on the face.

Plato was 400bc so he could hardly be a Christian.

Platonism and neo platonism influenced greatly Christian theology.

Most early christian were stoics who had lot of respect for plato.

Jesus was hellenistic, lot of part of the bible are plain platonism - neo platonism.

All science as we know it today is developpement from aristotle and arabs, that's just history lol

Im not Christian basher, but people just self proclaiming themselves as Christian without even reading their bible are the one who are brainwashed.

They are not Christian, actually act on the opposite of what's is told in the bible that they dont even read or understand.

Just exploiting religion to give some pseudo consistence to any non sense they are saying, playing victim of christian bashing when people put some actual truth in front of their eyes .. while they bash everyone left and right without remorse .. very christian indeed lol

[IadixDev]

A famous paper recently showed that the claimed results of most scientific studies are simply false:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
So why should we BLINDLY trust mainstream opinion of scientists (an opinion based in ignorance)? Stick to hard evidence and you will be fine. I have disclosed the evidence, so anyone who doubts it can debate the facts with me.
In my opinion, the scientists who reject survival are also wrong, but the brightest scientists like Wallace did find evidence and cocncluded that survival is real.

Industrial empirism is killing science

If it's good enough to make money with it selling pseudo therapy or iPhone then it's truth lol

[Przemax]

Greek philosophy is not about natural observation. Rational Philosophy is not about observation. Euclidian geometry is not about observation. Socratic method is not about obszrvation. I posted about this in previous post.

Read plato  ( rationalism, pre christianism) vs aristotle natural science, empirism, metaphysics.

Natural science is different from rational philosophy and mathematics.

I don't care about what they had taught you ok? Plato was a pagan not a christian. And there were a lot of people that wanted to found a logos in nature, objects, forms and such.

There were a variety of schools of thoughts before greeks, persian, indian, babylonian, asyrian, egyptian and so on and so forth.

None of it, not even aristotle or arabs were scientific, no matter anyone had told you. Science is a method of inquiry based on the scientific method. And thats it. Anything else you say about the science is just unprovable sophistry ok?

Why would I idolise a man? Thats a paganry. Leave that to yourself ok? Im far from a notion that one man can change the world ok? If you do you are a pagan and your god is not my God, so why would I care about what you think, if Im right, on what proves his existance? You can prove the existance of your god, you need to indentify him first. My God is the God of the Bible.

You love the idea, that is being pushed, because thats a christian bashing. It has no substance at all. Nada. Nicht. Makes no sense. Make sense only to people wanting to bash christian on the face.

Plato was 400bc so he could hardly be a Christian.

Platonism and neo platonism influenced greatly Christian theology.

One question. Do you have a monopoly for the truth? You seems to act like if you did. You speak authoritative with no explanation what so ever other than - thats the established position. I do not care what established positions are. When you can not explain IN YOUR OWN WORDS without labeling its just lame.

Platon influenced nothing but platonists.

Words of Jesus christ are enough to be christian. No need for Platon. If someone is incorporating platon to christianity he is an apostate.

And yes. I think catholics are apostates. Thats the end of the subject.

Most early christian were stoics who had lot of respect for plato.

The sons of millers and bakers were studying in a greek college? Thats absurd. Early christians were flying pigs. Prove me Im wrong.

Jesus was hellenistic, lot of part of the bible are plain platonism - neo platonism.

Why do you need to label Jesus? Jesus was Jesus - the greatest being ever lived, living and that will live. I suggest you to talk to him and meet him personaly, he will enjoy you labeling him.

All science as we know it today is developpement from aristotle and arabs, that's just history lol

Why do you say so? They are not the same, hence they are not the same. End of the subject. To accept your view on the role of the Aristoteles I would have to be Aristotelian to believe you. Its a circular logic.

Im not Christian basher

Yes you are. You are implying, not directly as every sophist do, that everything scientific is of everybody else but the christians. Thats just unfactual. And actualy you can see for yourself that science of the west is better, that was invented by christian puritans, because other types of science was never existant.

, but people just self proclaiming themselves as Christian without even reading their bible are the one who are brainwashed.

Yes. I have never met a catholic that was Christian in your sense of the word. Are you implying im not a christian?

[IadixDev]

I dont claim to have as much monopoly on truth and legitimity to bash everyone left and right on the basis of self proclaimed flawless christianism and monopoly on belief on the one god of the bible as you do lol

Ha .. the straw in the eyes ..

I already explained in my own words lol

But then if it's just your own word, it's not the bible, and it's not christianism lol

Plato influenced the whole occident, including christianism. You know who even coined the term of sophist that you seem to love to throw around so much right ? Most likely not ..

Yes im implying you are everything but a christian. I guess it's even more than implying at this stage.

Just playing victim of christian bashing while you dont even read the bible lol

[Przemax]

I dont claim to have as much monopoly on truth and legitimity to bash everyone left and right on the basis of self proclaimed flawless christianism and monopoly on belief on the one god of the bible as you do lol

I already explained in my own words lol

But then if it's just your own word, it's not the bible, and it's not christianism lol

Plato influenced the whole occident, including christianism. You know who even coined the term of sophist that you seem to love to throw around so much right ? Most likely not ..

Yes im implying you are everything but a christian. I guess it's even more than implying at this stage.

Just playing victim of christian bashing while you dont even read the bible lol

You are not a christian basher like a woman basher that says that woman are worthless is not.

Logic worth of Aristotelian.

And yes I know what sophism means. You deliberatly try to include some wrong facts as the truth with a logic that seems plausible at the first sight. You do not know what christianity means. Yes I know who coined it Socrates.

And yes I have read the bible. Have you? If you would you would have no reason to believe I have not read it.

The only person that is claiming to have superior morality is you.

[IadixDev]

And you know that socrate didn't write a word and all we know about socrate was wrote by plato right ..

See that make you a platonist lol

Doh    

It's already at least two time I showed you piece of the bible that you seemed to ignore ..

I dont claim any superiority on anything lol

I read the bible and many other things, im an humble student of the light, my spirit is free as the air

Im not the one bashing everything left and right because it doesnt correspond to my own self proclaimed christian faith lol

[Przemax]

And you know that socrate didn't write a word and all we know about socrate was wrote by plato right ..

See that make you a platonist lol

Doh    

It's already at least two time I showed you piece of the bible that you seemed to ignore ..

I dont claim any superiority on anything lol

You claim superiority as you have say of a stray in the eye.

Now you are eristic. Does that make me a Shoppenhauerist to point it out to you? Its not my fault you are using the the acadamia education to destroy my points. My points remain valid. Im pointing to you that you are doing it, and I want you to consider Im a worthy adversary on arguments here.

Yes I as well had a formal higher education in philosophy and I hate labeling.

What bible pieces I had ignored? Point it out to me.

Im not bashing anything. Could you please stop labeling and name calling and throwing a mind shortcuts?

P.S I might be too harsh about the metaphysics and arab culture. Im not the enemy of it, neither I claim it to be wrong because I dont know much about alchemy for example. Its not wrong its just unscientific. Im sorry if you might feel hurt by my words. I have not claimed everything I say is what a christian should do. I sin. I repent using some words that I might not use.

Im not the enemy of meditation, I am just a person that is very sceptical to say it has anything to do with God. And thats my message.

I try for nothing to be my enemy - thats a hard goal to make. My only adversary is the adversary of the God - Satan. And Im not saying someone is Godless. Christ said not to do that. Im just pointing out thats a possibility that you might be cooperative with the adversary unknowingly or knowingly.

my spirit is free as the air Smiley

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

I hope you won't call me Goetheist now. And yes I know that Goethe had wrote the Faust.