Scientific proof that God exists?

[BADecker]

You're getting more and more like, how do you call him, nomind.

Both nomind and I know your fairy tale does not exist. 

Everybody knows that fairy tales don't exist. The fact that you have to express it, shows that you are getting closer to nomind all the time.

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[Vod]

Everybody knows that fairy tales don't exist.

So why do you keep pushing your fairy tale on everyone?

[Astargath]

You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?

You are the one that said you are guessing. If you are really guessing, than what you posted is right. If you are not, then it is wrong.

Is it not time to get on topic and discuss the scientific proof for (or against) God? Like many others, you have lots of room in the forum to post all kinds of religious threads about God. Why continue to do it in this one scientific thread about God? Are you really trying to state that science is a religion for you?

So you agree that god has a creator? Interesting.

I didn't say or imply that I think that God has a creator. You know it, yet you seem to claim that I said or implied such. Just goes to show your deceptiveness.

But what created god then? Since he is so complex as you claim, then something even more complex must have created him, right?

Science definitely has shown us that God controls complexity. But I haven't seen any science that has shown that God was created. Have you researched it?

It didn't at all. Science only shows us that there was a beginning to the universe, everything after that are just assumptions on your part. Saying it was god. It could have been a lot of other things, so no, science hasn't shown us that. Why don't you just admit your belief in god is purely based on faith and try desperately to prove his existence with science when you know you won't be able to.

[BADecker]

Everybody knows that fairy tales don't exist.

So why do you keep pushing your fairy tale on everyone?

Seems like you don't know the difference between what is real and what isn't.

[Vod]

Everybody knows that fairy tales don't exist.

So why do you keep pushing your fairy tale on everyone?

Seems like you don't know the difference between what is real and what isn't.

Is that why you keep pushing your fairy tale on everyone?  Because of something I don't know?

I'm honored. 

[BADecker]

You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?

You are the one that said you are guessing. If you are really guessing, than what you posted is right. If you are not, then it is wrong.

Is it not time to get on topic and discuss the scientific proof for (or against) God? Like many others, you have lots of room in the forum to post all kinds of religious threads about God. Why continue to do it in this one scientific thread about God? Are you really trying to state that science is a religion for you?

So you agree that god has a creator? Interesting.

I didn't say or imply that I think that God has a creator. You know it, yet you seem to claim that I said or implied such. Just goes to show your deceptiveness.

But what created god then? Since he is so complex as you claim, then something even more complex must have created him, right?

Science definitely has shown us that God controls complexity. But I haven't seen any science that has shown that God was created. Have you researched it?

It didn't at all. Science only shows us that there was a beginning to the universe, everything after that are just assumptions on your part. Saying it was god. It could have been a lot of other things, so no, science hasn't shown us that. Why don't you just admit your belief in god is purely based on faith and try desperately to prove his existence with science when you know you won't be able to.

If you want to stop at entropy, perhaps science only shows a beginning. But when you add complexity through cause and effect, science definitely shows us God.

[BADecker]

Everybody knows that fairy tales don't exist.

So why do you keep pushing your fairy tale on everyone?

Seems like you don't know the difference between what is real and what isn't.

Is that why you keep pushing your fairy tale on everyone?  Because of something I don't know?

I'm honored.  

Nope. That's not why I don't push anything on anyone. It's because I and God would rather you came to it through your own realization. But you're too busy, aren't you? Just like your avatar.

[Vod]

Nope. That's not why I don't push anything on anyone.

You are starting to become more like nomind - a simple liar. 

400+ pages of you pushing your fairy tale on others, and you outright deny it.

[BADecker]

Nope. That's not why I don't push anything on anyone.

You are starting to become more like nomind - a simple liar. 

400+ pages of you pushing your fairy tale on others, and you outright deny it.

Since you don't really understand science - low IQ - you are expected to post like that.

[Vod]

Nope. That's not why I don't push anything on anyone.

You are starting to become more like nomind - a simple liar. 

400+ pages of you pushing your fairy tale on others, and you outright deny it.

Since you don't really understand science - low IQ - you are expected to post like that.

I only understand science - not your fairy tale.

Why does it bother you so much that I can't be brainwashed?

[BADecker]

Nope. That's not why I don't push anything on anyone.

You are starting to become more like nomind - a simple liar. 

400+ pages of you pushing your fairy tale on others, and you outright deny it.

Since you don't really understand science - low IQ - you are expected to post like that.

I only understand science - not your fairy tale.

Why does it bother you so much that I can't be brainwashed?

Now, now. Relax. We understand. Want a piece of candy?   

[Vod]

Nope. That's not why I don't push anything on anyone.

You are starting to become more like nomind - a simple liar. 

400+ pages of you pushing your fairy tale on others, and you outright deny it.

Since you don't really understand science - low IQ - you are expected to post like that.

I only understand science - not your fairy tale.

Why does it bother you so much that I can't be brainwashed?

Now, now. Relax. We understand. Want a piece of candy?   

That won't brainwash me.  Why does that upset you?

[BADecker]

Nope. That's not why I don't push anything on anyone.

You are starting to become more like nomind - a simple liar. 

400+ pages of you pushing your fairy tale on others, and you outright deny it.

Since you don't really understand science - low IQ - you are expected to post like that.

I only understand science - not your fairy tale.

Why does it bother you so much that I can't be brainwashed?

Now, now. Relax. We understand. Want a piece of candy?   

That won't brainwash me.  Why does that upset you?

Brainwashing won't keep your brain clean. Only believing in Jesus your Savior will keep your brain washed.

[Vod]

Brainwashing won't keep your brain clean.

So then why does it bother you so much that I am not brainwashed?

[Astargath]

You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?

You are the one that said you are guessing. If you are really guessing, than what you posted is right. If you are not, then it is wrong.

Is it not time to get on topic and discuss the scientific proof for (or against) God? Like many others, you have lots of room in the forum to post all kinds of religious threads about God. Why continue to do it in this one scientific thread about God? Are you really trying to state that science is a religion for you?

So you agree that god has a creator? Interesting.

I didn't say or imply that I think that God has a creator. You know it, yet you seem to claim that I said or implied such. Just goes to show your deceptiveness.

But what created god then? Since he is so complex as you claim, then something even more complex must have created him, right?

Science definitely has shown us that God controls complexity. But I haven't seen any science that has shown that God was created. Have you researched it?

It didn't at all. Science only shows us that there was a beginning to the universe, everything after that are just assumptions on your part. Saying it was god. It could have been a lot of other things, so no, science hasn't shown us that. Why don't you just admit your belief in god is purely based on faith and try desperately to prove his existence with science when you know you won't be able to.

If you want to stop at entropy, perhaps science only shows a beginning. But when you add complexity through cause and effect, science definitely shows us God.

No it doesn't. As I said, that points to multiple different possible causes and who knows how many more there are that we haven't thought of. It doesn't necessarily have to be god. It could be gods, could be any other creature that is complex enough to create a universe, a simulation etc etc. Just because you can't think of any other possible explanation it doesn't give you the right to say it's god.

[BADecker]

You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?

You are the one that said you are guessing. If you are really guessing, than what you posted is right. If you are not, then it is wrong.

Is it not time to get on topic and discuss the scientific proof for (or against) God? Like many others, you have lots of room in the forum to post all kinds of religious threads about God. Why continue to do it in this one scientific thread about God? Are you really trying to state that science is a religion for you?

So you agree that god has a creator? Interesting.

I didn't say or imply that I think that God has a creator. You know it, yet you seem to claim that I said or implied such. Just goes to show your deceptiveness.

But what created god then? Since he is so complex as you claim, then something even more complex must have created him, right?

Science definitely has shown us that God controls complexity. But I haven't seen any science that has shown that God was created. Have you researched it?

It didn't at all. Science only shows us that there was a beginning to the universe, everything after that are just assumptions on your part. Saying it was god. It could have been a lot of other things, so no, science hasn't shown us that. Why don't you just admit your belief in god is purely based on faith and try desperately to prove his existence with science when you know you won't be able to.

If you want to stop at entropy, perhaps science only shows a beginning. But when you add complexity through cause and effect, science definitely shows us God.

No it doesn't. As I said, that points to multiple different possible causes and who knows how many more there are that we haven't thought of. It doesn't necessarily have to be god. It could be gods, could be any other creature that is complex enough to create a universe, a simulation etc etc. Just because you can't think of any other possible explanation it doesn't give you the right to say it's god.

Multiple gods is out because they would have to be acting in such great concert, that they would essentially be one... like one corporation.

If we have a universe simulation, the complexity would be even greater. Because there is intelligence now, and there is entropy that has lowered the IQ from what it was thousands of years ago, that which put it all together would have been considered by people back then, to have greater intelligence than present people could understand it to have.

Scientifically speaking:
I don't know if it had two heads or any heads.
I don't know if it had hands.
I don't know if it had a beard.
I couldn't tell you if square would fit it.

There are thousands of questions that could be asked about it that we don't have scientific answers to. But the thing that it fits is what a God would have to be. And not just any idea of God. But an extremely great God, way beyond human understanding, just like the majority of the vast universe is beyond the understanding of mankind.

Perhaps if there were no intelligence in the universe, maybe then there wouldn't be any God. But because we have intelligence that has decreased over the millennia because of entropy, not only was the intelligence of man greater back then, but the intelligence of that which made the universe is far greater.

Intelligence smacks of reasoning ability. And reasoning ability that is as far beyond mankind as that which it would take to make a universe like ours, silently shouts "GOD" to anyone who can think.

[Vod]

Intelligence smacks of reasoning ability.

You need more than intelligence - intelligent people can still be brainwashed.

You also need curiosity to have reasoning ability.

No person can be intelligent, curious and believe in a god.

[BADecker]

Intelligence smacks of reasoning ability.

You need more than intelligence - intelligent people can still be brainwashed.

You also need curiosity to have reasoning ability.

No person can be intelligent, curious and believe in a god.

Many people can be intelligent, curious, and understand the scientific proof that God exists.

[Vod]

Many people can be intelligent, curious, and understand the scientific proof that God exists.

No person can be intelligent, curious and believe in a god, even with your imaginary science.

You can be intelligent and gullible.

You can be curious and stupid.

But you can't be intelligent, curious and brainwashed.  Doesn't make sense.

[BADecker]

Many people can be intelligent, curious, and understand the scientific proof that God exists.

No person can be intelligent, curious and believe in a god, even with your imaginary science.

You can be intelligent and gullible.

You can be curious and stupid.

But you can't be intelligent, curious and brainwashed.  Doesn't make sense.

There are many, many scientists who believe in God, are intelligent, and are curious. You shoot your ideas down by saying silly things like your last post I have quoted here.