[XMR] Monero Speculation

[smooth]

There are plenty for sale. 40btc worth under the previous high 24 hours after hitting it.

40 btc is plenty?

I guess it depends on the scale you have in mind but I don't really consider that a deep market.

It is plenty. There is very rarely people who market-buys 40 btc's worth of coins.

Chicken, meet egg.

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[dreamspark]

There are plenty for sale. 40btc worth under the previous high 24 hours after hitting it.

40 btc is plenty?

I guess it depends on the scale you have in mind but I don't really consider that a deep market.

That's just what's under yesterdays high already. No need to try and put words in my mouth. The idea put forward is that there are very little for sale. That's just not true, ~250 btc's worth to just over 0.002 . Incidentally that's the whole bid depth at the time of writing.

[TrueCryptonaire]

There are plenty for sale. 40btc worth under the previous high 24 hours after hitting it.

40 btc is plenty?

I guess it depends on the scale you have in mind but I don't really consider that a deep market.

That's just what's under yesterdays high already. No need to try and put words in my mouth. The idea put forward is that there are very little for sale. That's just not true, ~250 btc's worth to just over 0.002 .

Now we really need OTC markets to clean all these coins from the exchange into stronger hands. 

[GingerAle]

There are plenty for sale. 40btc worth under the previous high 24 hours after hitting it.

40 btc is plenty?

I guess it depends on the scale you have in mind but I don't really consider that a deep market.

That's just what's under yesterdays high already. No need to try and put words in my mouth. The idea put forward is that there are very little for sale. That's just not true, ~250 btc's worth to just over 0.002 .

Now we really need OTC markets to clean all these coins from the exchange into stronger hands. 

I'll hodl em for yah! Don't got the funds to buy em, but I won't sell em if I could, for a maybe 5 years!

I think if xmr.to will get out there, it'll really change the game. People that want to use xmr.to will likely go to poloniex, and they're not gonna wait around for their bid price - they'll probably want to get coins ASAP. So whatever is sitting on top (those bot controlled asks Im assuming) will get gobbled.

[lyth0s]

Monero needs to find more buyers.
Otherwise after Risto's friends have their positions, there need to be more strong hands holding the coins.
Some kind of new adoption is needed, too.
Perhaps a few merry news on Coindesk will bring more people into Monerosphere.

Like I told, the adoption is expected to be exponential, but the base level is very small, just "me and my friends".

If we can't make the transition to higher adoption in 1-2 months, even the current price is unsustainable. I still don't regret buying, because everyone in my circles is in for the long game, but if the downtrend resumes, the newcomers will get to buy cheaper.

That is the nature of speculation.

While most of the price is probably speculation, the anonymity factor is huge as compared to bitcoin. Also with the addition of xmr.to that adds real usefulness to Monero that has true value IMO.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Looks like the buy-support is back here.  

...Aaaand it is gone.

[gaba]

Monero was much better before rpietila get in. Now is he's playground. That suck.

[onemorexmr]

Monero was much better before rpietila get in. Now is he's playground. That suck.

well... profit from it. its actually not that hard.

[dewdeded]

Monero was much better before rpietila get in. Now is he's playground. That suck.

Wat?!?!? You mean the first 37 days, back in 2014? You must be trolling.
Monero was launched 18 April 2014, rpietila got involed 25 May 2014 with his Altcoin Observer thread and a clear recommondation for Monero.

[rpietila]

Monero was much better before rpietila get in. Now is he's playground. That suck.

Wat?!?!? You mean the first 37 days, back in 2014? You must be trolling.
Monero was launched 18 April 2014, rpietila got involed 25 May 2014 with his Altcoin Observer thread and a clear recommondation for Monero.

In addition, even if you treasured the first few days so much and now feel sad, you can also take refuge on the fact that Monero is the only altcoin I have ever invested in, and therefore ALL the others have been and likely will continue to be rpietila-free!

[TrueCryptonaire]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?
I prefer creating passive income for myself and I would be interested in that type of investment vehicle (however it would be organized).
I am sure there are plenty of other people who think in the same way, too. This could also bring investors that are not normally interested in gambling with the success of Monero.

For instance, there could be Monero denominated IPO and with that money the created corporation buys different (fiat denominated) assets that are safe and brings cashflow (such as real estates with premium-cashflow) and then pays dividends in Moneros for instance monthly/quarterly.
This creates some transactional demand for Monero since fiat income need to be converted into Monero, also there could be some holding period for those who want to dump the moneros back to fiat... Holding is something that brings the value for the currency anyway. Personally I could increase my Monero stack with this way and I would not be dumping at least even if the cashflow is on frequent basis (but I am not that sure if others think like I do).

[rpietila]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?

Crypto Kingdom gold (CKG) paid 3,986 on 430,000 market price last week (0.93% per week). In addition it's been rising in value.

If you are interested in getting Moneros back 1:1, then the Long bond (1 year) was about 1.33% per week when last auctioned. The shorter-term bonds have been paying about 2.73%/week.

[opennux]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?
I prefer creating passive income for myself and I would be interested in that type of investment vehicle (however it would be organized).
I am sure there are plenty of other people who think in the same way, too. This could also bring investors that are not normally interested in gambling with the success of Monero.

For instance, there could be Monero denominated IPO and with that money the created corporation buys different (fiat denominated) assets that are safe and brings cashflow (such as real estates with premium-cashflow) and then pays dividends in Moneros for instance monthly/quarterly.
This creates some transactional demand for Monero since fiat income need to be converted into Monero, also there could be some holding period for those who want to dump the moneros back to fiat... Holding is something that brings the value for the currency anyway. Personally I could increase my Monero stack with this way and I would not be dumping at least even if the cashflow is on frequent basis (but I am not that sure if others think like I do).

Aminorex suggested XMR development bonds earlier :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg10167989#msg10167989
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg10201676#msg10201676

[TrueCryptonaire]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?

Crypto Kingdom gold (CKG) paid 3,986 on 430,000 market price last week (0.93% per week). In addition it's been rising in value.

If you are interested in getting Moneros back 1:1, then the Long bond (1 year) was about 1.33% per week when last auctioned. The shorter-term bonds have been paying about 2.73%/week.

Hmm... But I am not interested in playing game but only get passive income to MyMonero-wallet, is it possible to do it like that?
I am interested in getting actual Moneros back (not any ingame currency since I am not so much into playing games but making Moneros)   but I would love to "lease out" some Moneros for residual income.

[gaba]

Monero can't replace Bitcoin (for now) but Litecoin is easy target. From miners point of view Litecoin just can't keep promises anymore.

[Jungian]

Monero can't replace Bitcoin (for now) but Litecoin is easy target. From miners point of view Litecoin just can't keep promises anymore.

The only thing that can replace XMR at this point is Bitcoin with ring-sigs I think, and probably not even that. Or obvisouly something that pops out of the blue and way surpasses XMR for reasons not yet known.

[rpietila]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?

Crypto Kingdom gold (CKG) paid 3,986 on 430,000 market price last week (0.93% per week). In addition it's been rising in value.

If you are interested in getting Moneros back 1:1, then the Long bond (1 year) was about 1.33% per week when last auctioned. The shorter-term bonds have been paying about 2.73%/week.

Hmm... But I am not interested in playing game but only get passive income to MyMonero-wallet, is it possible to do it like that?
I am interested in getting actual Moneros back (not any ingame currency since I am not so much into playing games but making Moneros)   but I would love to "lease out" some Moneros for residual income.

You have to understand that there needs to be a productive economy (in this case: the game) from whose profits the dividends/interest is paid. The only option is a ponzi, and if you especially want to lose your coins, I am sure that someone can help you.

CK does not require you to "play" the game, but if you think you could get passive income at zero risk, you could as well go back to sleep. Zero risk is dreaming in 100% of the circumstances.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?

Crypto Kingdom gold (CKG) paid 3,986 on 430,000 market price last week (0.93% per week). In addition it's been rising in value.

If you are interested in getting Moneros back 1:1, then the Long bond (1 year) was about 1.33% per week when last auctioned. The shorter-term bonds have been paying about 2.73%/week.

Hmm... But I am not interested in playing game but only get passive income to MyMonero-wallet, is it possible to do it like that?
I am interested in getting actual Moneros back (not any ingame currency since I am not so much into playing games but making Moneros)   but I would love to "lease out" some Moneros for residual income.

You have to understand that there needs to be a productive economy (in this case: the game) from whose profits the dividends/interest is paid. The only option is a ponzi, and if you especially want to lose your coins, I am sure that someone can help you.

CK does not require you to "play" the game, but if you think you could get passive income at zero risk, you could as well go back to sleep. Zero risk is dreaming in 100% of the circumstances.

Risks are in various levels.
For instance, it is very unlikely that US governement goes bankcrupt, therefore their Treasure Bills are considered as a "risk free" interest rate. However, it is possible that black swan event occur. However, I would not bet on that since the odds are heavily against me.

Then there is derivatives that possibly has the highest risks(?) among the assets classes if they are used for speculation purposes.

Between these are many other assets, rental properties, other gov. bonds, stocks and CK-bond.

The rental properties have relatively low risk, but indeed they have more risk than US T-bills. However you can invest in REITs in US stock exchange and get residual income, and this has proven to be pretty stable in some REITs.
If this type of asset is created to Monero economy and imemdiately the REIT receives the cash-flow, it is converted to XMR and stored for a while and then paid as dividend, it creates some holding period for Moneros even if the owner of REIT share dumps the XMR at the moment he gets the dividend, so it is "postponing" some of the dumping... And of course like mining coins, some share holders will not dump but have faith in XMR and holds it (or part of it).

The idea is to attract the old-farts to Monero economy. They usually have some nice piles of cash sitting idle.   They are not that interested in gambling with odds of 75 % to lose all their investment but with 95 % to get some residual income.

I might be wrong with this idea, but I have a gut-feeling the old money understands this type of investing more than direct bets on Moner's success.
This should be taken as an idea of developing Monero economy and this idea can be rejected or developed further.
My idea is to try to figure out how to increase the demand for Monero and holding of the coin. There is still way too much dumping which need to be stopped so that the bull-trend can start.

[Hueristic]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?
I prefer creating passive income for myself and I would be interested in that type of investment vehicle (however it would be organized).
I am sure there are plenty of other people who think in the same way, too. This could also bring investors that are not normally interested in gambling with the success of Monero.

For instance, there could be Monero denominated IPO and with that money the created corporation buys different (fiat denominated) assets that are safe and brings cashflow (such as real estates with premium-cashflow) and then pays dividends in Moneros for instance monthly/quarterly.
This creates some transactional demand for Monero since fiat income need to be converted into Monero, also there could be some holding period for those who want to dump the moneros back to fiat... Holding is something that brings the value for the currency anyway. Personally I could increase my Monero stack with this way and I would not be dumping at least even if the cashflow is on frequent basis (but I am not that sure if others think like I do).

Within the chain would take a hard fork I would think.

[GingerAle]

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?

Crypto Kingdom gold (CKG) paid 3,986 on 430,000 market price last week (0.93% per week). In addition it's been rising in value.

If you are interested in getting Moneros back 1:1, then the Long bond (1 year) was about 1.33% per week when last auctioned. The shorter-term bonds have been paying about 2.73%/week.

Hmm... But I am not interested in playing game but only get passive income to MyMonero-wallet, is it possible to do it like that?
I am interested in getting actual Moneros back (not any ingame currency since I am not so much into playing games but making Moneros)   but I would love to "lease out" some Moneros for residual income.

You have to understand that there needs to be a productive economy (in this case: the game) from whose profits the dividends/interest is paid. The only option is a ponzi, and if you especially want to lose your coins, I am sure that someone can help you.

CK does not require you to "play" the game, but if you think you could get passive income at zero risk, you could as well go back to sleep. Zero risk is dreaming in 100% of the circumstances.

Risks are in various levels.
For instance, it is very unlikely that US governement goes bankcrupt, therefore their Treasure Bills are considered as a "risk free" interest rate. However, it is possible that black swan event occur. However, I would not bet on that since the odds are heavily against me.

Then there is derivatives that possibly has the highest risks(?) among the assets classes if they are used for speculation purposes.

Between these are many other assets, rental properties, other gov. bonds, stocks and CK-bond.

The rental properties have relatively low risk, but indeed they have more risk than US T-bills. However you can invest in REITs in US stock exchange and get residual income, and this has proven to be pretty stable in some REITs.
If this type of asset is created to Monero economy and imemdiately the REIT receives the cash-flow, it is converted to XMR and stored for a while and then paid as dividend, it creates some holding period for Moneros even if the owner of REIT share dumps the XMR at the moment he gets the dividend, so it is "postponing" some of the dumping... And of course like mining coins, some share holders will not dump but have faith in XMR and holds it (or part of it).

The idea is to attract the old-farts to Monero economy. They usually have some nice piles of cash sitting idle.   They are not that interested in gambling with odds of 75 % to lose all their investment but with 95 % to get some residual income.

I might be wrong with this idea, but I have a gut-feeling the old money understands this type of investing more than direct bets on Moner's success.
This should be taken as an idea of developing Monero economy and this idea can be rejected or developed further.
My idea is to try to figure out how to increase the demand for Monero and holding of the coin. There is still way too much dumping which need to be stopped so that the bull-trend can start.

Is there any way possible to organize a dividend paying assets for Monero economy?

so.... you could do the following:

1) buy said asset (easiest and most reliable would probably be index fund)
2) offer shares of this asset for monero (that way people buy monero to buy shares from you). You could probably use ripple for this. You then hold onto monero.
3) distribute ROI in form of monero back to shareholders

I would of course work in a way to trickle something to core development, because, yah know....

Alternatively, you can buy boatloads of server time or build a GPU farm.

This will direct more of the newly mined monero from professional miners that dump to a monero supporter that holds. This has the added benefit of securing the network (which is equally important, in my mind, as anything). One could then offer shares in this venture, if one doesn't want to take the risk all on their own.

i've done the numbers - it would only take 6 million USD to buy enough nvidia 750 ti's to match the current hashrate.