[XMR] Monero Speculation

[doc12]

Dear Trolls,

Duckburg, 09th of June 2017

Do you think some of the wealth will suddenly be transfered from Dash to Monero?
I am becoming slowly but surely bullish on Monero and bearish on Dash.


Best regards,
TrueCryptonaire

Somethings in the air definitly. There was no real monero pump in this altbubble. Every shittiest Shitcoin got pumped to the moon.  
Maybe Monero will set the final nail on these years altbubble coffin   huge green one please

[comp]

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff I'm going cryptopnuts these days. Reading a lot, viewing a lot, reading more and that in and endless loop. Shifting through loads and loads of crap. A lot of hype and moon talk, a lot of companies that have a coin as a byproduct (a crowdfund) of the services they offer on top of the blockchain and a lot of other just 100% useless coins that do not add anything to the whole cryptocoin landscape.

With a few other exceptions I think Monero is just the right coin. Great developers, great community (more rational and quiet), less or no pump and dump and a good outlook.

Will keep my cash in Monero.

What I do want to know from the monero ppl here is what they think about ETH or whom the Monero competitors are?

[TrueCryptonaire]

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff I'm going cryptopnuts these days. Reading a lot, viewing a lot, reading more and that in and endless loop. Shifting through loads and loads of crap. A lot of hype and moon talk, a lot of companies that have a coin as a byproduct (a crowdfund) of the services they offer on top of the blockchain and a lot of other just 100% useless coins that do not add anything to the whole cryptocoin landscape.

With a few other exceptions I think Monero is just the right coin. Great developers, great community (more rational and quiet), less or no pump and dump and a good outlook.

Will keep my cash in Monero.

What I do want to know from the monero ppl here is what they think about ETH or whom the Monero competitors are?

Dash is the main competitor to Monero but it is going down as I lowered my bids on Dash.

[adamvp]

Dash has evolution in prepartion..
And what is prepared for Monero? ;>
Why do you think monero price will go up?

[lazybeats]

Is this refutable: http://monerolink.com/monerolink.pdf ?

Basic article about the research here: http://www.altcointoday.com/monero-transactions-traceable/



Good lord is it difficult to figure which currency is the "most" anonymous (Dash, Zcash, Monero, Verge, ZenCash etc).

Then, on top of that, which one has "enough" privacy for the masses. And which are easy/easiest to use?



I do feel like it only makes sense for one anonymous coin to survive long term. I don't think it will be added to Bitcoin in a fork. Believe it or not, the masses really don't care about their privacy.

[Luxo]

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff I'm going cryptopnuts these days. Reading a lot, viewing a lot, reading more and that in and endless loop. Shifting through loads and loads of crap. A lot of hype and moon talk, a lot of companies that have a coin as a byproduct (a crowdfund) of the services they offer on top of the blockchain and a lot of other just 100% useless coins that do not add anything to the whole cryptocoin landscape.

With a few other exceptions I think Monero is just the right coin. Great developers, great community (more rational and quiet), less or no pump and dump and a good outlook.

Will keep my cash in Monero.

What I do want to know from the monero ppl here is what they think about ETH or whom the Monero competitors are?

I firmly believe that Monero has no competitors as long as there is no other coin that has mandatory privacy by default.

[DaveyJones]

Is this refutable: http://monerolink.com/monerolink.pdf ?

Basic article about the research here: http://www.altcointoday.com/monero-transactions-traceable/

https://getmonero.org/2017/04/19/an-unofficial-response-to-an-empirical-analysis-of-linkability.html there you go

[Febo]

I always thought Shark >= Dolphin.

Don't forget the Phytoplankton.

Sharks are afraid of Dolphins. Not sure why, maybe because Dolphins are smarter or because they cooperate and fight together.   0.1 XMR is smallest fish on earth , so for lower ranges we will need some other sea creatures, so for satoshi ranges might be a plankton.

Wait a minute, is The Nar-Whale a pocket whale?

I love Narwhals and yes pocked whale was a silly idea.

[ozkraut]

Check what I found lol:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B015ERQHIM/cryptocoin09-20

[noobtrader]

Is this refutable: http://monerolink.com/monerolink.pdf ?

Basic article about the research here: http://www.altcointoday.com/monero-transactions-traceable/



Good lord is it difficult to figure which currency is the "most" anonymous (Dash, Zcash, Monero, Verge, ZenCash etc).

Then, on top of that, which one has "enough" privacy for the masses. And which are easy/easiest to use?



I do feel like it only makes sense for one anonymous coin to survive long term. I don't think it will be added to Bitcoin in a fork. Believe it or not, the masses really don't care about their privacy.

 i can picture it that in the year 2020, some scientist expose weak algo in monero hash that enable any transaction prior to 2018 to be exposed,  the monero community automatically call the scientist as troll because the weak algo already patched in December 2019.

BTW: did bts just goes above your MK guys 

[novag]

Time to buy to the fullest!

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/XMRBTC/e6W7phyk-Flag-pattern-in-XMR

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/XMRUSD/5ma3fl6H-XMR-USD-Consolidating-at-ATH

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/XMRBTC/EWHmlT95-Long-XMR

[Febo]

i can picture it that in the year 2020, some scientist expose weak algo in monero hash that enable any transaction prior to 2018 to be exposed, 

I think this Dr. Scientist will rather focus on some other coins. Monero is simple build it is not build on Bitcoin and then added anonymity with mixers. With those coins there is way more things where can go wrong and that way way more chances for Dr. Scientist get his results.

Monero will be most private coin in 2020 as it is today and as it was 2015.

[aminorex]

Dash is the main competitor to Monero but it is going down as I lowered my bids on Dash.

Dash is not even remotely competitive.  It is simply and purely a scam to steal money from the foolish and ignorant. The market cap of dash is an illusion created by temporarily removing most of the supply into masternodes which monitor all the transactions and insure that 90% of the network traffic goes through NSA controlled routers.  When the scam bubble pops all of those masternodes will get liquidated in a huge rush to the exits, crushing all the innocent holders. The only reason why a masternode holder (other than a "national security" unit) is willing to take that risk is the illusion of yield.  Let me give you a hint: Hard money has no yield.  If it has a yield, it is a scam, and eventually that illusion will blow away.  It took 46 years for the soveriegn fiat illusion of yield to disappear.  I can assure you with confidence that it won't take that long for the dash masternode rentiers to get their come-uppance.  They lack armies and nuclear missiles, for one thing.

Another example of a moral crime against humanity is zcash, which taxes it's foolish users 20% for the priviledge of being subjected to infinite surprise dilution, and using gee whiz math that 99.999% of the buyers don't understand. I would not want to face that Nuremburg justice when it comes.

Ignorant and foolish people think they are clever because they are making money.  Well, a rising tide lifts all boats.  It is only when the tide goes out that we discover who was swimming naked. I will be covering my private parts with Monero when that happens, simply because I think it provides the best cover * liquidity value in known space.

You can call me arrongant or insensitive, trollish, or book talking, or whatever you like, but if one person is saved from embezzlement and  poverty by my warnings, I will consider the reputation burn well spent.

That said, yes, there will always be the possibility of some future deanonymizing innovation as long as we rely on computational asymmetries.  That is why defense in depth is so crucial.  Your contributions to Kovri now may be late to the party, but will nonetheless be welcomed (after thorough peer review).  Eventually we may incorporate a decoherence layer into peer communications to prevent information leakage, but the technology is not yet widely available.  Eventually q.c. will destroy even zksnarks, but by then we will have new quantum-ready tech in place, at least if I have anything to say about it.  

And I would not be alone, I am sure, in being willing to cowboy-fork if necessary, when that time comes.  Although, I do not believe it will be necessary, given the prudential responsibility demonstrated by the core team to date.  (Also, I do think any new quantum ready PRs would be very premature at this point. We won't want them until we expect to actually need them.  Until then they would just be valueless added risk.)

Anyhow, cheap coins, yo.  When the facts change, so do my opinions: I am buying anything under $52 these days.  I think in the very worst case they might be under water until August, but I still say the June/July scenario ranks are skewed positive, so I am willing to take that much duration risk. All it takes to prove me wrong is one large persistent seller in size, but so far all the evidence has been that transactions in size are overwhelmingly biased towards long term holds.  Hence, the intermittent level-up jumps, each time the float supply gets drained off into reserve demand.  Even a growing economy can't prevent some profit taking by speculators, after a big jump, so you have to expect some dips to follow the jumps.  That, my friends, is our great opportunity, as patient and prudent buyers.  The FUD storms help us, as much as I hate to admit it.  I much, much prefer gains by honest value-add and legitimate, well-reasoned and soundly founded "risk-taking".

[eizh]

Dash is not even remotely competitive.  It is simply and purely a scam to steal money from the foolish and ignorant. The market cap of dash is an illusion created by temporarily removing most of the supply into masternodes which monitor all the transactions and insure that 90% of the network traffic goes through NSA controlled routers.  When the scam bubble pops all of those masternodes will get liquidated in a huge rush to the exits, crushing all the innocent holders.

Foolish they may be, but I don't think the holders are so innocent. DASH is best understood as a novel transparent Ponzi scheme. Duffield used to openly talked about crunching supply for the sake of raising the price so it's hardly a nefarious secret. Even today their marketing consists of creepy infomercial-like presentations designed to reel in new users. But the key is that those users go in consciously hoping to pull off the same on future buyers.

[aminorex]

I don't think the holders are so innocent. ...it's hardly a nefarious secret. Even today their marketing consists of creepy infomercial-like presentations designed to reel in new users. But the key is that those users go in consciously hoping to pull off the same on future buyers.

I grant you that, but sometimes ignorance is innocent.  There will always be people who want to use cash tech for cash tech purposes. It is nefarious to offer cash tech but supply crash tech, which is also a thing, actually occuring.

Yeah, there is nothing disingenuous about promoting a Ponzi as a Ponzi (although there is something nefarious about it).  But I still wish I could convince people that their rational expectation is negative, even if I can not convince them that they should attend to the categorical imperative (of Kant, a/k/a the Golden Rule of Jesus Christ, sometimes attributed to Hillel) - and no less when investing, speculating, or even gambling, than otherwise.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Dash is not even remotely competitive.  It is simply and purely a scam to steal money from the foolish and ignorant. The market cap of dash is an illusion created by temporarily removing most of the supply into masternodes which monitor all the transactions and insure that 90% of the network traffic goes through NSA controlled routers.  When the scam bubble pops all of those masternodes will get liquidated in a huge rush to the exits, crushing all the innocent holders.

Foolish they may be, but I don't think the holders are so innocent. DASH is best understood as a novel transparent Ponzi scheme. Duffield used to openly talked about crunching supply for the sake of raising the price so it's hardly a nefarious secret. Even today their marketing consists of creepy infomercial-like presentations designed to reel in new users. But the key is that those users go in consciously hoping to pull off the same on future buyers.

According to your definition also bitcoin can be considered as a ponzi scheme.
Basically anything that is valuable is with limited supply.
Basically Putin's watches can be considered as a ponzi scheme https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-06/putins-patek-philippe-5208p-grand-complication-for-auction

They are with limited supply and the supply is tied to the wrist/collection of Putin.

Pump and dump I would call a scam but definetely not a pump. Pump and dump schemes are meant to rake money from the suckers but if Dash basically pumps, the hodlers will only benefit and the newcomers pay the spot and see some appreciation via hodling a bag, and with a good luck also gets some new coins via masternodes.

Pyramid I would call it Dash but it is not a bad thing necessarily.

That being said, I hope Dash will drop because I have bids. To speak to my book I should bash Dash.

[aminorex]

According to your definition also bitcoin can be considered as a ponzi scheme.
Basically anything that is valuable is with limited supply.

On this we may significantly disagree.  Had I appreciated the severity of the flaws in versions of Monero before RingCT, and had no faith in the team to manage the issue as they did, in the breach, I would have been railing against Monero likewise, but not for intentionally centralizing and materially facilitating the defungibilization of the currency - only for lacking the competence to make a meaningful distinction as against, e.g., boolberry.  

I do think that the actual technical and economic characteristics of real hard money will dominate in the long run.  Monero has them.  To my mind anything that pretends to have similar utility and value but lacks those characteristics is an imposture and a fraud.  Stop calling it money when it doesn't have the essential qualities of money, stop classing it with Monero when it does not belong in the same class, and I will probably just ignore it.  As it is, I feel it is needful to warn against such schemes.

If you want to collect rare Pepes that's none of my business.  I would advise however that the cultural value of Putin's Patek-Phillipe is likely to be much more persistent.  Even Mao's very perishable mangos have greater persistent value than Dash.

[eizh]

Dash is not even remotely competitive.  It is simply and purely a scam to steal money from the foolish and ignorant. The market cap of dash is an illusion created by temporarily removing most of the supply into masternodes which monitor all the transactions and insure that 90% of the network traffic goes through NSA controlled routers.  When the scam bubble pops all of those masternodes will get liquidated in a huge rush to the exits, crushing all the innocent holders.

Foolish they may be, but I don't think the holders are so innocent. DASH is best understood as a novel transparent Ponzi scheme. Duffield used to openly talked about crunching supply for the sake of raising the price so it's hardly a nefarious secret. Even today their marketing consists of creepy infomercial-like presentations designed to reel in new users. But the key is that those users go in consciously hoping to pull off the same on future buyers.

According to your definition also bitcoin can be considered as a ponzi scheme.
Basically anything that is valuable is with limited supply.
Basically Putin's watches can be considered as a ponzi scheme https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-06/putins-patek-philippe-5208p-grand-complication-for-auction

No, it's not about limited supply or about selling higher than one bought it for. Ponzis promise payout (but rely on reeling in new investors because they do not possess a real business generating cash flow). Bitcoin has no payout; it's just a commodity and does not pretend to be more than that. DASH's value proposition is predicated on paying out interest to special nodes.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Dash is not even remotely competitive.  It is simply and purely a scam to steal money from the foolish and ignorant. The market cap of dash is an illusion created by temporarily removing most of the supply into masternodes which monitor all the transactions and insure that 90% of the network traffic goes through NSA controlled routers.  When the scam bubble pops all of those masternodes will get liquidated in a huge rush to the exits, crushing all the innocent holders.

Foolish they may be, but I don't think the holders are so innocent. DASH is best understood as a novel transparent Ponzi scheme. Duffield used to openly talked about crunching supply for the sake of raising the price so it's hardly a nefarious secret. Even today their marketing consists of creepy infomercial-like presentations designed to reel in new users. But the key is that those users go in consciously hoping to pull off the same on future buyers.

According to your definition also bitcoin can be considered as a ponzi scheme.
Basically anything that is valuable is with limited supply.
Basically Putin's watches can be considered as a ponzi scheme https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-06/putins-patek-philippe-5208p-grand-complication-for-auction

No, it's not about limited supply or about selling higher than one bought it for. Ponzis promise payout (but rely on reeling in new investors because they do not possess a real business generating cash flow). Bitcoin has no payout; it's just a commodity and does not pretend to be more than that. DASH's value proposition is predicated on paying out interest to special nodes.

It is claimed that Satoshi Nakamoto owns around 1 million bitcoins and he mined them when mining bitcoins was easy ("premine").
Well, if you want to call running masternode a ponzi, be my guest but in my opinion it is one way of mining coins. The coins need to be mined in one way or another in crypto.
You can buy many things with Dash as far as I know. I do not know how much it is used for buying goods/services, and that's up to the community what they within themselves want to buy/sell for Dash. Many want to speculate with the price increase and therefore are not too hesitant to use it but chose rather hold it for longer.

[TrueCryptonaire]

According to your definition also bitcoin can be considered as a ponzi scheme.
Basically anything that is valuable is with limited supply.

On this we may significantly disagree.  Had I appreciated the severity of the flaws in versions of Monero before RingCT, and had no faith in the team to manage the issue as they did, in the breach, I would have been railing against Monero likewise, but not for intentionally centralizing and materially facilitating the defungibilization of the currency - only for lacking the competence to make a meaningful distinction as against, e.g., boolberry.  

I do think that the actual technical and economic characteristics of real hard money will dominate in the long run.  Monero has them.  To my mind anything that pretends to have similar utility and value but lacks those characteristics is an imposture and a fraud.  Stop calling it money when it doesn't have the essential qualities of money, stop classing it with Monero when it does not belong in the same class, and I will probably just ignore it.  As it is, I feel it is needful to warn against such schemes.

If you want to collect rare Pepes that's none of my business.  I would advise however that the cultural value of Putin's Patek-Phillipe is likely to be much more persistent.  Even Mao's very perishable mangos have greater persistent value than Dash.

From the point of view of economics, what do you see the main problem with Dash?

Money needs to be a store of value, means of exchange and measure of value. What are the characteristics of money that Dash is lacking?