KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[rifleman74]

It's a grow facility...and you're using the heat exhaust to heat the home, no need for natural gas!

[1714095746]

1714095746

[kano]

...
B) Yes, the kano site keeps kicking you off.
...

Well, no, it times out just like any good banking web site does

If you use an add-on/Extension to reload every 5 minutes on the Blocks page (like I do) it doesn't time out.

[WBF1]

k lets give this padrinogtr  thing another try . let start by taking all the luck and unnecessary stuff out of the equation.  so lets start by saying there are 5 pools in the world mining the blockchain. it spits out 1 block per day.
day 1 pool 1 gets block day 2 pool 2 on down the line till pool 5 we will call that our pool . most (the other 4 pool) using the similar pay system payout WHEN they get a block with the blocks reward they do this buy looking at how much each member worked during the day and turning that into a % that compares with the rest of the workers in the pool. they are payed a % of the block = to their %. in the kano pool its the same accept we look back 5 days instead of 1 to find each workers % again u get the % according to your %. after 5 days u will get the same block payout as all the other pools (accept they have higher fees generally which makes the block smaller). the difference is it takes a whole 5 days instead of 1 to get your full % the up side if u quit or are down for 5 days u are still getting though a diminishing return as the days go by.
  so bottom line kano pool pays bests over the long term due to lower fees. this system is good because if u have break downs or gaps they wont be noticed as much but the real purpose is to stop those who pool hop (try to only work for the pool that is paying on a specific day)  there goal being to get payed everyday instead of once per five days. now there is no point in pool hoppers showing up here because they wont be able to take there money and run to the next pool cause we dont pay them jst for punching in on payday.
  howd i do padrinogtr i dont think i qualify for the contest anyway but id like to know if i helped though i haven't seen yer name here in awhile:D.

No offense, but I think you're actually adding unnecessary stuff to the equation.

Also, your premises are flawed

- # of pools mining and number of miners mining has no impact on anything. Only global hashrate and network difficulty (which is adjusted approximately every 2 weeks based on global hashrate) make any difference.

- in your example, those are still PPLNS payout methods if all blocks take 1 day. If that's not what you had in mind, then what you're describing is maybe "PPLND" or  proportional method with rounds equal to 1 day time frame.

- All else being equal, on a long enough time scale, the ONLY thing that makes one pool pay more than others is a lower pool fee.

- re: pool hopping, you need to read organofcorti's write up here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg1146110#msg1146110 and here: https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

I'm not even sure what sort of questions you're asking anymore. Or what sort of explanation you're looking for.

[WBF1]

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.

you should look into "ausome miner" properly configured u can manage your miners from anywhere. wont help if yer house burned down or the wife ran off with your miners.

Lol if my wife runs off with anything it won’t be my miners. In fact those would probably the only thing left. I found out our internet is out. There is a line down and the service provider is trying to get it back up. Guess I have to wait.

East Coast? we're getting crazy winds today...

[BSGMiner]

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.

you should look into "ausome miner" properly configured u can manage your miners from anywhere. wont help if yer house burned down or the wife ran off with your miners.

Lol if my wife runs off with anything it won’t be my miners. In fact those would probably the only thing left. I found out our internet is out. There is a line down and the service provider is trying to get it back up. Guess I have to wait.

East Coast? we're getting crazy winds today...

Same for me. That's what I've been dealing with all day. My wife quickly gave up on restarting them... So much for the help desk.

[AerialGopher]

Use Wifi on laptop connected to your cell phone hotspot,  Internet connection sharing between wireless and LAN on laptop, and then plug that lan into the switch for the miners,  reboot the miners to get new DHCP from laptop.

Or replace cell phone with any USB internet key or similar.
Or directional antenna pointed to the local store that has free wifi.
I have had to do this, works like a charm.

[wavelengthsf]

Well something is going on at my house. All of my miners quit showing up at the pool at the same time. Im stuck here at work so I cant even check to see whats going on. Now im going to lose a day of mining.  . I must have either lost internet or power. This sucks.

The good news is that because of the 5ND, you won't lose much rewards.

Likely your internet went out, or you could've lost power.

[mutko]

Use Wifi on laptop connected to your cell phone hotspot,  Internet connection sharing between wireless and LAN on laptop, and then plug that lan into the switch for the miners,  reboot the miners to get new DHCP from laptop.

Or replace cell phone with any USB internet key or similar.
Or directional antenna pointed to the local store that has free wifi.
I have had to do this, works like a charm.

+1

[kano]

...
- All else being equal, on a long enough time scale, the ONLY thing that makes one pool pay more than others is a lower pool fee.
...

Yes, but the "All else being equal" also includes pool hash rate to some extent.
If the pool gets too small - as I've been trying to avoid over the last couple of months and will hopefully have some more hash rate here soon again - the diff changes also can affect your reward dramatically.

This is why I mention on occasion "as long as we are expected to find a number of blocks each diff change"
The issue is that if you're mining for multiple diff changes per block, then your reward loses around half the diff change from start to finish.

A simple example is that since 13-Jan difficulty has increased by 55.73% (yeah that's a scary number)
So if you were mining from say 10-Jan to now and then found a block, you'd actually lose over 25% of your expected reward!
All your shares from then to now have different PPS values, but your reward is based on 'now', the much worse PPS value.

This also affects us here to a lesser extent due to the fact we don't expect to find many blocks per diff change.
Thus why I'm trying to get that hash rate back up again.

Small pools like to pretend this doesn't happen

[kano]

511587 payout sent about a quarter of an hour ago and now first confirm

[gaud]

FUNNY!

I got the visit from local electrical company, called then right away rang the door bell, WIERD..
But I open the door, and she introduces herself, and then says that they were asked to come out and see why the meter read was so high.  I said, oh,  That is becuase I am using more power.  They kept prying and asking for more info, and I said, its going through the meter, trust me its legit.

Then I asked,  Hey, I thought you were not allowed to approach customers and ask them what they are using their power for?  She shut up pretty quick.  

I said, so if my meter read was "estimated" for two months, and the last one was on Dec 8, and again, no meter reads after that....  how did you determine that there was excessive usage here with the one meter read?   Blank look...

Funny, now I have to convince them that i used ALL that 18 000 kWh in December when it was the cheapest, 3.99 cents/kWh, now its 5.18 cents!
 HAHA  Next they will ask me why my gas meter read is so low... like less than 10 % of where it should be.

They actually by law are not allowed to ask what I am doing with my power, but yet they decided to do that.

I figure I'll save 260 dollars with the lower rate.

truth u jst got added to thew investigation pool for grow op. she cant ask but the judge will.

[gaud]

...
- All else being equal, on a long enough time scale, the ONLY thing that makes one pool pay more than others is a lower pool fee.
...

Yes, but the "All else being equal" also includes pool hash rate to some extent.
If the pool gets too small - as I've been trying to avoid over the last couple of months and will hopefully have some more hash rate here soon again - the diff changes also can affect your reward dramatically.

This is why I mention on occasion "as long as we are expected to find a number of blocks each diff change"
The issue is that if you're mining for multiple diff changes per block, then your reward loses around half the diff change from start to finish.

A simple example is that since 13-Jan difficulty has increased by 55.73% (yeah that's a scary number)
So if you were mining from say 10-Jan to now and then found a block, you'd actually lose over 25% of your expected reward!
All your shares from then to now have different PPS values, but your reward is based on 'now', the much worse PPS value.

This also affects us here to a lesser extent due to the fact we don't expect to find many blocks per diff change.
Thus why I'm trying to get that hash rate back up again.

Small pools like to pretend this doesn't happen

yes never thought of this issue but yea its depressing lol we need an advertiseing manager

[gaud]

k lets give this padrinogtr  thing another try . let start by taking all the luck and unnecessary stuff out of the equation.  so lets start by saying there are 5 pools in the world mining the blockchain. it spits out 1 block per day.
day 1 pool 1 gets block day 2 pool 2 on down the line till pool 5 we will call that our pool . most (the other 4 pool) using the similar pay system payout WHEN they get a block with the blocks reward they do this buy looking at how much each member worked during the day and turning that into a % that compares with the rest of the workers in the pool. they are payed a % of the block = to their %. in the kano pool its the same accept we look back 5 days instead of 1 to find each workers % again u get the % according to your %. after 5 days u will get the same block payout as all the other pools (accept they have higher fees generally which makes the block smaller). the difference is it takes a whole 5 days instead of 1 to get your full % the up side if u quit or are down for 5 days u are still getting though a diminishing return as the days go by.
  so bottom line kano pool pays bests over the long term due to lower fees. this system is good because if u have break downs or gaps they wont be noticed as much but the real purpose is to stop those who pool hop (try to only work for the pool that is paying on a specific day)  there goal being to get payed everyday instead of once per five days. now there is no point in pool hoppers showing up here because they wont be able to take there money and run to the next pool cause we dont pay them jst for punching in on payday.
  howd i do padrinogtr i dont think i qualify for the contest anyway but id like to know if i helped though i haven't seen yer name here in awhile:D.

No offense, but I think you're actually adding unnecessary stuff to the equation.

Also, your premises are flawed

- # of pools mining and number of miners mining has no impact on anything. Only global hashrate and network difficulty (which is adjusted approximately every 2 weeks based on global hashrate) make any difference.

- in your example, those are still PPLNS payout methods if all blocks take 1 day. If that's not what you had in mind, then what you're describing is maybe "PPLND" or  proportional method with rounds equal to 1 day time frame.

- All else being equal, on a long enough time scale, the ONLY thing that makes one pool pay more than others is a lower pool fee.

- re: pool hopping, you need to read organofcorti's write up here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg1146110#msg1146110 and here: https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf

I'm not even sure what sort of questions you're asking anymore. Or what sort of explanation you're looking for.

we r trying to simplify things for padrinogtr so i took all the complicated bits that may help calculate your exact pay but not understand the system out. feel free to go back a few days and read the difficulties he was having and understand his learning curve then make your own attempt. and no this is not in detail all that happens but i believe as an example with the rules described it helps understanding a bit. also if yer looking to win the contest he has said he learns best with a visual representation.

[Vene]

Hi, taking your case as an example of the formula i just mention few posts below your post.
Assuming you have fully ramped up and you have 37THs ave.


Formula =

(N/PN)=S
R*S = Your BTC received

(Legend)
MY HASHRATE = N
POOL HASHRATE = PN
MY number of SHARE = S
BLOCK REWARD = R
------

(N/PN)=S
37,000 / 46,880,000 = 0.00078925 Share/Contribution from the total pool power

Block reward (R) = 12.40460222
R*S = Your BTC received

12.40460222 * 0.00078925 = 0.00979032 BTC on this block IF you were already fully ramped up.
Assuming we find 10 blocks of thesame size you'll get 0.096892 BTC in 30 days which should be way
more better than 0.003094 a day * 30 = 0.09282 BTC


Hope this helps.  As many long time miners here say, be patient and it will pay off!

Thx for the explanation. I switched from slush pool few days ago and didnt quite go in to details with formula for payout. But now its clear.
I am hitting 50Th/s now so lets wait and see.

[gaud]

question for kano. since this 5n thing seems to confuse alot do u think it contributes to people leaving if so do u think it might be better to pull out the 5 part ?

[Shazam!!!]

<snip>
If the pool gets too small - as I've been trying to avoid over the last couple of months and will hopefully have some more hash rate here soon again........

<snip>
Thus why I'm trying to get that hash rate back up again.

yes never thought of this issue but yea its depressing lol we need an advertiseing manager

 padrinogtr  and I are working on it fellas! Again, if anyone else would like to help out, or has any suggestions, please share your thoughts.

[rifleman74]

question for kano. since this 5n thing seems to confuse alot do u think it contributes to people leaving if so do u think it might be better to pull out the 5 part ?

won't happen. 

[kano]

question for kano. since this 5n thing seems to confuse alot do u think it contributes to people leaving if so do u think it might be better to pull out the 5 part ?

As I've stated before, changing the 5Nd to 1Nd means everyone mining here loses out.

Someone starts mining, their first 5Nd of rewards are higher since after 1Nd they are already fully ramped ... so that extra BTC for the first 5Nd has to come from somewhere ... the pool would have to take it from everyone currently mining.

Edit: had to fix that I got it wrong

[wavelengthsf]

As I've stated before, changing the 5Nd to 1Nd means everyone mining here loses out.

Someone starts mining, their first 5Nd of rewards are higher since after 1Nd they are already fully ramped ... so that extra BTC for the first 5Nd has to come from somewhere ... the pool would have to take it from everyone currently mining.

Edit: had to fix that I got it wrong

It'd also mean that runs of bad luck hurt more, because if it runs over 100%, you get paid for fewer shares!

[lok8nusa]

question for kano. since this 5n thing seems to confuse alot do u think it contributes to people leaving if so do u think it might be better to pull out the 5 part ?

I tend to think simply (I am simple minded), so I look at it as averaging counting back however far 5Nd is. The effect I see is that the valleys of long time-span blocks is offset when luck is better.

When you join the pool during a valley (like I did), it takes some time for luck to make that 5Nd window show results, as you don't have any short -timespan blocks to improve that average.