Vertcoin - 1 | ASIC - 0 | Lyra2RE | Decentralised | GPU Mineable | Open Source

[snakyxa]

Danila from ipominer is botneter!
Becouse.... Google it "Danila ipominer"
I found that he uses cpu miner x64 on maybe torrents like crack or something like this....
Thats why he got unreal amount of hashing

[bathrobehero]

Danila from ipominer is botneter!
Becouse.... Google it "Danila ipominer"
I found that he uses cpu miner x64 on maybe torrents like crack or something like this....
Thats why he got unreal amount of hashing

You're right:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-cpu-miner

I thought botnet owners are pointing the hashrate to their own stratum proxy and point that to whatever pool they want.

[bathrobehero]

Heh, Ipominer no longer shows individual user hashrates on any coins. Gee, I wonder why.

[TheCoinFinder]

Heh, Ipominer no longer shows individual user hashrates on any coins. Gee, I wonder why.

Well, they're making 3% off him and have been for months on various coins- so its of course in their financial interests to protect him.

[ipominer]

Heh, Ipominer no longer shows individual user hashrates on any coins. Gee, I wonder why.

Well, they're making 3% off him and have been for months on various coins- so its of course in their financial interests to protect him.

It's in every pool's interest to protect all users, of course. We've long debated making changes like this, but I always argued they were unnecessary and that 100% transparency was worth pursuing. Prior to this there's never been a problem with user privacy becoming an issue, as the pool has been small enough and users have apparently been discrete enough. But, never let it be said that I can't admit being wrong As the saying goes, "this is why we can't have nice things".

I'm extremely hesitant to go into details about any user, but I'm able to disclose some basic information in this case, and that link actually explains quite a bit if you read closely. From http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-cpu-miner:

"It is important to note that CPU Miner is bundled with and installed by free programs that did not adequately disclose that other software would be installed along with it. Therefore, it is important that you pay close attention to license agreements and installation screens when installing anything off of the Internet. If an installation screen offers you Custom or Advanced installation options, it is a good idea to select these as they will typically disclose what other 3rd party software will also be installed."

Now, I agree that bundling additional software for installation isn't the most user friendly thing in the world, and in an ideal world it would be done away with. However, it is an established and valid practice, and it does allow for software to be freely distributed which otherwise wouldn't be.

Since there were questions about a "botnet", it's worth noting that I did look into this, quite seriously, and received compelling documentation about the legitimacy of all mining, appropriate terms/licensing in place, etc.  That site throwing a label of "virus removal" onto it sounds catchy, but anything that can be removed with "Add or Remove Programs" hardly seems to fit that description well. It's pretty clearly a bundled installation item that's able to be uninstalled as normal.

Beyond that, it's worth noting that increases in mining across these coins have arguably caused price increases, which benefit everyone - especially long time holders of the coin. I personally am fairly hesitant to argue too hard against a combined increase in both hashrate and price being a positive thing, in any case.

Obviously one can argue for the importance of diversification of mining power, but that's more the case that the collective "we" as a community for each coin needs to do a better job in getting people interested in mining it, than anything else.

[jwinterm]

Heh, Ipominer no longer shows individual user hashrates on any coins. Gee, I wonder why.

Well, they're making 3% off him and have been for months on various coins- so its of course in their financial interests to protect him.

blah blah bla...

we like free money even if it's obtained by ethically and/or legally questionable means.

deal with it.

(•_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

tl;dr edit

[bathrobehero]

Heh, Ipominer no longer shows individual user hashrates on any coins. Gee, I wonder why.

Well, they're making 3% off him and have been for months on various coins- so its of course in their financial interests to protect him.

It's in every pool's interest to protect all users, of course. We've long debated making changes like this, but I always argued they were unnecessary and that 100% transparency was worth pursuing. Prior to this there's never been a problem with user privacy becoming an issue, as the pool has been small enough and users have apparently been discrete enough. But, never let it be said that I can't admit being wrong As the saying goes, "this is why we can't have nice things".

I'm extremely hesitant to go into details about any user, but I'm able to disclose some basic information in this case, and that link actually explains quite a bit if you read closely and can ignore the obvious inherent bias of the site. From http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-cpu-miner :

"It is important to note that CPU Miner is bundled with and installed by free programs that did not adequately disclose that other software would be installed along with it. Therefore, it is important that you pay close attention to license agreements and installation screens when installing anything off of the Internet. If an installation screen offers you Custom or Advanced installation options, it is a good idea to select these as they will typically disclose what other 3rd party software will also be installed."

Now, I agree that bundling additional software for installation isn't the most user friendly thing in the world, and in an ideal world it would be done away with. However, it is an established and valid practice, and it does allow for software to be freely distributed which otherwise wouldn't be.

Since there were questions about a "botnet", it's worth noting that I did look into this, quite seriously, and received compelling documentation about the legitimacy of all mining, appropriate terms/licensing in place, etc.  That site throwing a label of "virus removal" onto it sounds catchy, but anything that can be removed with "Add or Remove Programs" hardly seems to fit that description well. It's pretty clearly a bundled installation item that's able to be uninstalled as normal.

Beyond that, it's worth noting that increases in mining across these coins have arguably caused price increases, which benefit everyone - especially long time holders of the coin. I personally am fairly hesitant to argue too hard against a combined increase in both hashrate and price being a positive thing, in any case.

Obviously one can argue for the importance of diversification of mining power, but that's more the case that the collective "we" as a community for each coin needs to do a better job in getting people interested in mining it, than anything else.

Frist off, you are not a small pool by any means when you earn about 0.62 BTC a day from that one guy alone, which you do.
Congratulations to you and I get that you don't want to part with that stream of revenue and you sure don't have to but you also don't have to try cover it up with oh user privacy becoming an issue and that you value transparency yet you hid all the relevant information from users.
We're talking about a username, not doxxing someone. Sweeping it all under the rug might make you look like you're not just trying to protect your profit but you're also involved.

Secondly an unwanted power wasting software sneaked onto systems is not just another program between chrome and windows calculator; it's a malicious payload.

The only reason significantly increased hashrate could ever increase the price because it's making it more expensive for general miners to produce a coin so the price floor could potentially increase since miners tend not to sell below cost of production.
That benefit, however, is more than offset by the element of centralization - regardless of your pool.

[jch9678]

Heh, Ipominer no longer shows individual user hashrates on any coins. Gee, I wonder why.

Well, they're making 3% off him and have been for months on various coins- so its of course in their financial interests to protect him.

It's in every pool's interest to protect all users, of course. We've long debated making changes like this, but I always argued they were unnecessary and that 100% transparency was worth pursuing. Prior to this there's never been a problem with user privacy becoming an issue, as the pool has been small enough and users have apparently been discrete enough. But, never let it be said that I can't admit being wrong As the saying goes, "this is why we can't have nice things".

I'm extremely hesitant to go into details about any user, but I'm able to disclose some basic information in this case, and that link actually explains quite a bit if you read closely. From http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-cpu-miner:

"It is important to note that CPU Miner is bundled with and installed by free programs that did not adequately disclose that other software would be installed along with it. Therefore, it is important that you pay close attention to license agreements and installation screens when installing anything off of the Internet. If an installation screen offers you Custom or Advanced installation options, it is a good idea to select these as they will typically disclose what other 3rd party software will also be installed."

Now, I agree that bundling additional software for installation isn't the most user friendly thing in the world, and in an ideal world it would be done away with. However, it is an established and valid practice, and it does allow for software to be freely distributed which otherwise wouldn't be.

Since there were questions about a "botnet", it's worth noting that I did look into this, quite seriously, and received compelling documentation about the legitimacy of all mining, appropriate terms/licensing in place, etc.  That site throwing a label of "virus removal" onto it sounds catchy, but anything that can be removed with "Add or Remove Programs" hardly seems to fit that description well. It's pretty clearly a bundled installation item that's able to be uninstalled as normal.

Beyond that, it's worth noting that increases in mining across these coins have arguably caused price increases, which benefit everyone - especially long time holders of the coin. I personally am fairly hesitant to argue too hard against a combined increase in both hashrate and price being a positive thing, in any case.

Obviously one can argue for the importance of diversification of mining power, but that's more the case that the collective "we" as a community for each coin needs to do a better job in getting people interested in mining it, than anything else.

There are so many things wrong with your statement that I wrote a long post countering pretty much each sentence you wrote but I'm just sending this one instead because bathrobehero did a good job.  (Ironically one of the things that got me doesn't even have to do with coins, bleeping computer is arguably one of the best antivirus, anti-malware sites around.  How Danila made you think it's just a fly by night website is beyond me.)

The important thing about this situation is that no coin can survive with one person owning 70% of the hashrate, who would want to invest in a coin that is controlled by one person.  Can you imagine if this happened to bitcoin.  Nobody wins in this situation; investors won't show up, price tanks, miners leave, and then you and Danila don't make coin either.  For the sake of vertcoin change your ports at the end of 48 hours and we'll see if the network hashrate stays the same.  If it does then Danila has a back door into people's computers (hence a botnet) so he can reconfigure the miner.  The fact that he is the top hasher on your pool for other coins leads me to believe he can reconfigure at will.  If the hashrate stays down, I'm sure he can figure out a new scam.  Even if this is Epic Scale, it's still a scam and terrible for vertcoin.

[ocminer]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

[TheCoinFinder]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

Hi old friend.

Danila has 149 workers (I iterated them to confirm this on pool2.ipominer.com). Bleeping Computer is a very reputable and well established malware/virus/pup guide website. It is I think beyond doubt that Danila is utilising a botnet to mine Vertcoin (currently), but was also previously mining various other coins - all on ipominer. We will see, but currently it seems that Danila set up his botnet so he can change the algorithm, and the port - but nothing else on his miners - as it would not make sense for him to use a pool that charges 3% when he could just set his own pool up (apart from security reasons, as all of his botnet is now pointing at ipominer's IP addresses rather than his own) - so what I would expect to see is that tomorrow, by 1pm when ipominer promised (its still written on their website) that they will close down their vtc port - that he will switch to another (less profitable) ipominer coin, rather than switch to another vtc pool (or make one himself). But we will see.

[ocminer]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

Hi old friend.

Danila has 149 workers (I iterated them to confirm this on pool2.ipominer.com). Bleeping Computer is a very reputable and well established malware/virus/pup guide website. It is I think beyond doubt that Danila is utilising a botnet to mine Vertcoin (currently), but was also previously mining various other coins - all on ipominer. We will see, but currently it seems that Danila set up his botnet so he can change the algorithm, and the port - but nothing else on his miners - as it would not make sense for him to use a pool that charges 3% when he could just set his own pool up (apart from security reasons, as all of his botnet is now pointing at ipominer's IP addresses rather than his own) - so what I would expect to see is that tomorrow, by 1pm when ipominer promised (its still written on their website) that they will close down their vtc port - that he will switch to another (less profitable) ipominer coin, rather than switch to another vtc pool (or make one himself). But we will see.

Hey mate, good you are still here

Ah thanks for the heads up. I am certain ipominer will shut the Port when they promise.

I am not so used to botnets from the Operators view, i just remember a news Post about u torrent which also utilized cpu Power for mining.. Sounded a bit like this first.

I am also eager to see what will happen tomorrow.

[jch9678]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

I more or less agree with you.  I don't see this as a control issue though.  I definitely lean towards the laissez faire and libertarian attitude when it comes to stuff like this.  Danila is free to start his own pool and that's what he should've done in the first place if he was smart. 

It's vtc's responsibility to change something to counter attack this and ipominer could help or he may not.  It's up to him, I just didn't like his waffling around the subject, proclaiming transparency and then taking down user hashrates, and in my opinion not thinking critically about what is going on.  It almost sounded like Danila was telling him what to say. 

Wait you think he's a legitimate user?  Just because ipominer received docs and necessary terms and licensing doesn't mean anything.  There's a Tommy Boy joke in here somewhere.  Anyway nobody knows what country someone else is from, this stuff isn't enforceable.

Would it really hurt ipominer's rep for kicking someone off his pool who hashes with a botnet and can do real harm to a coin.  On the contrary I think vtcers would support this and applaud it, but who knows. 

I appreciate your input (and your pools as well)

[jch9678]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

Hi old friend.

Danila has 149 workers (I iterated them to confirm this on pool2.ipominer.com). Bleeping Computer is a very reputable and well established malware/virus/pup guide website. It is I think beyond doubt that Danila is utilising a botnet to mine Vertcoin (currently), but was also previously mining various other coins - all on ipominer. We will see, but currently it seems that Danila set up his botnet so he can change the algorithm, and the port - but nothing else on his miners - as it would not make sense for him to use a pool that charges 3% when he could just set his own pool up (apart from security reasons, as all of his botnet is now pointing at ipominer's IP addresses rather than his own) - so what I would expect to see is that tomorrow, by 1pm when ipominer promised (its still written on their website) that they will close down their vtc port - that he will switch to another (less profitable) ipominer coin, rather than switch to another vtc pool (or make one himself). But we will see.

Hey mate, good you are still here

Ah thanks for the heads up. I am certain ipominer will shut the Port when they promise.

I am not so used to botnets from the Operators view, i just remember a news Post about u torrent which also utilized cpu Power for mining.. Sounded a bit like this first.

I am also eager to see what will happen tomorrow.

Yeah that's Epic Scale that I mentioned.  They got their software bundled with utorrent and supposedly you could opt out on install but many reported they didn't have a chance and also many had trouble uninstalling it.  They purported to donate your cpu power to charities.  They mine whatever coin and generate btc and then donate profits.  The problem with that is salaries are paid before profits are realized.  90% of their revenue could go to salaries leaving only some percentage of 10% left to charity. 

[jwinterm]

Plot twist - Danila is affiliated with/is ipominer, thus the 3% fee is irrelevant.

[snakyxa]

Sorry guys. But i dont think all of that mess is good idea!
Becouse. Ipominer closes port for mining... Danila will mine with his hashpower on other pool and...? Other pool will close port too? Or what? Its fun as monkey with red ass
I dont think that he will split his power or somethink like that....
Much more i trust in that he will mr evil mod. Start kis own pool and join team on angry beavers and start his own multipool. Thsn fbi kick hosting companys door and shutdowns all servers ower the world
And after that starts peace over the world

And after that all. I downloaded *Dirt3* from russian torrents and i found there crack archieve 2.6Gb (sound funny) for each cpu crack. When open it with notepad.... There Danilkas config for x11 drkcoin

[snakyxa]

And i have question. Why on ipominer on vtc was fixed dif miners was 0.25 on verters for example dif jumps?
And cpuminer x32 for vtc not exist?

[ipominer]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

After evaluating the situation more over the past two days, I've decided to keep the Lyra2/VTC port open at ipoMiner. Considering shutting it down was a rushed decision, and it wasn't the right one. There's virtually zero benefit that comes from doing that, as discussion here has indicated. Mining power will just go elsewhere and create similar issues, with higher risks than mining happening on an established pool. Also, there's already no reason for non-ipoMiner users to mine VTC with us, as we're not a dedicated VTC pool and have higher fees than other VTC pools do.

That said, I have taken some additional steps to decrease the risks from large hashrate mining on a single pool, by further separating miners, wallets, etc. to eliminate the possibility of a series of blocks being found that would create a potential situation for risk of a double-spend.

Thanks to everyone for the input here, and especially to ocminer as a fellow pool operator sharing good insights as usual.

And i have question. Why on ipominer on vtc was fixed dif miners was 0.25 on verters for example dif jumps?
And cpuminer x32 for vtc not exist?

ipoMiner uses static worker difficulty for mining on all coins -- you can configure your own difficulty setting for each worker, as needed. (It can be setup in your account, under the workers area.)

Some pools use vardiff, to try to automatically guess what difficulty is best for your rate of mining. (There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods, static vs. vardiff so it just depends what a pool prefers to use.)

[jch9678]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

After evaluating the situation more over the past two days, I've decided to keep the Lyra2/VTC port open at ipoMiner. Considering shutting it down was a rushed decision, and it wasn't the right one. There's virtually zero benefit that comes from doing that, as discussion here has indicated. Mining power will just go elsewhere and create similar issues, with higher risks than mining happening on an established pool. Also, there's already no reason for non-ipoMiner users to mine VTC with us, as we're not a dedicated VTC pool and have higher fees than other VTC pools do.

That said, I have taken some additional steps to decrease the risks from large hashrate mining on a single pool, by further separating miners, wallets, etc. to eliminate the possibility of a series of blocks being found that would create a potential situation for risk of a double-spend.

Thanks to everyone for the input here, and especially to ocminer as a fellow pool operator sharing good insights as usual.

Haha, that's funny. 

Nobody knows if the mining power will go anywhere unless Danila has told you it will.  If it does then he has remote control of his miners.  Check if that's in the docs and licensing and terms papers you received.  And just because it goes somewhere doesn't mean you have to give him a free ride.  Except your thinking is "well it might as well be us" if some pool has to bear his burden.

Like I said earlier, I accept your decision but you now need to live with the fact that Ipominer Pool not only Supports botnets but is Complicit with them.  And furthermore Ipominer Pool does not care about the health of a decent coin so long as their is a revenue stream.  How about that for a reputation?  I can't understand why anybody would mine with you (unless they have a botnet).

I may be a medium fish in a big pond but you will not get any hashrate from me, I will stick to OCMiner's pools where he has said he doesn't allow botnets and only allows legit users.

Now that you have your position I have a great idea for you.  3% fee is way too low.  Danila is making out like a bandit.  You are the only pool that openly allows botnets.  Danila owes you more, raise your fees to 10%.  He's not going anywhere.  Or is he?  Sack up, stand up for what you believe in, raise the fees and make more money.  Better yet create another pool strictly for botnets and charge exorbitant higher fees.  Botpool name is taken by the Chinese, so call it DanilaPool.

[volyova]

Just a quick question:

What if Danila simply starts his own (private) pool and hashes there?

IMHO anything "in the Internet" shouldnt and cannot be controlled, especially an open source crypto currency..  The Users do what they are supposed to do with the coin, they mine it.

The dev can implement counter measures like with xmg but if that really helps the coin value is an other question

Just my 2 Cents..  Even if ipominer kicks him off (which would be Bad for the pools rep if Danila is a legit Users which he seems he is from what i read in a few minutes) he could simply hash to his own pool..  (sooner or later)

After evaluating the situation more over the past two days, I've decided to keep the Lyra2/VTC port open at ipoMiner. Considering shutting it down was a rushed decision, and it wasn't the right one. There's virtually zero benefit that comes from doing that, as discussion here has indicated. Mining power will just go elsewhere and create similar issues, with higher risks than mining happening on an established pool. Also, there's already no reason for non-ipoMiner users to mine VTC with us, as we're not a dedicated VTC pool and have higher fees than other VTC pools do.

That said, I have taken some additional steps to decrease the risks from large hashrate mining on a single pool, by further separating miners, wallets, etc. to eliminate the possibility of a series of blocks being found that would create a potential situation for risk of a double-spend.

Thanks to everyone for the input here, and especially to ocminer as a fellow pool operator sharing good insights as usual.

You money-grabbing fuck..

[ipominer]

Like I said earlier, I accept your decision but you now need to live with the fact that Ipominer Pool not only Supports botnets but is Complicit with them.  And furthermore Ipominer Pool does not care about the health of a decent coin so long as their is a revenue stream.  How about that for a reputation?  I can't understand why anybody would mine with you (unless they have a botnet).

ipoMiner does not allow botnets, as I've said; the issue here is that what we're discussing is not a botnet by commonly accepted definitions. Of course you're entitled to your opinion though, and can mine wherever you prefer.