Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[PatrickHarnett]

Having just seen Danks' latest post, I'm also compelled to state that Micon is driving me to the point of defending Dank.

(Hey Dank, I read your posts every day because they are entertaining, as are some of the replies.  Doesn't mean I'd lend to you (it's a risk thing), but I haven't seen evidence of a ponzi from you over the past year.)

[finkleshnorts]

Having just seen Danks' latest post, I'm also compelled to state that Micon is driving me to the point of defending Dank.

(Hey Dank, I read your posts every day because they are entertaining, as are some of the replies.  Doesn't mean I'd lend to you (it's a risk thing), but I haven't seen evidence of a ponzi from you over the past year.)

+1

[Stephen Gornick]

do you trust what bitpay says on these matters?  

I see Bit-Pay describing their trades that take advantage of volatility -- something that appears to be courtesy of pirate, and they clearly state their opinion that pirate is ponzi, but is there more from Bit-Pay that I'm not aware of that you are referring to?

Real businesses are hurt by these BTC scams.  

Well, bitcoin's image is hurt by them, and in that way yes -- real businesses are harmed from there being unsavory dealings like these occurring.

But are you referring to a more direct harm from these type of "investments"?

Personally, I feel the main problem with these comes from deception.  The words "bank", "savings", "deposits" come with expectations as to their meaning.   If you are running a HYIP, pyramid, ponzi or a penny auction even, then call it what it is and nobody would have a problem with it.  But when the words "bank", etc. are used for a ponzi, then that's deception.

[dank]

Having just seen Danks' latest post, I'm also compelled to state that Micon is driving me to the point of defending Dank.

(Hey Dank, I read your posts every day because they are entertaining, as are some of the replies.  Doesn't mean I'd lend to you (it's a risk thing), but I haven't seen evidence of a ponzi from you over the past year.)

Understandable, I appreciate your statement.

There's not much posting about it will do other than raise awareness. I am glad Micoin took the charity to explain what a ponzi is and how some operations may be implemented in such a way, but there really is no sense in accusations if you can't prove it.  All scams will reveal themselves with time and only then will we learn from them.

[Clipse]

I observe poker is a game of chance and there is some skill that can be applied.  But I would prefer not to take investment advice from a card player - I consider that a deficient qualification.

I will concur that experience does not necessarily lead to wisdom.  It depends on the person.  Some people are wise with limited experience.

I happen to be older than 33 (this person) and I object to his characterisation of forum members as "kiddies", elevating himself above others he has no knowledge of.

The credit rating metrics you refer to are a mechanical process as set out in the relevant thread and are based on principles covers by Standard and Poors in their publications on Corporate Credit Ratings.  It looks at the financial ability of different issuers to make good their liabilities.  I do not need to do that, and someone else could easily have done so.  I am not asking anyone to rely on them, and of the 12 requests for information, only 1/3rd have responded.  However, you point here is more about discrediting my point of view rather than looking at the credentials of the OP and the advice he is giving.  If you wish to debate credit ratings, please do so in the relevant thread.

Sir,

your defense of the BTC ponzi industry, which will crumble in a relatively short period of time, is dead wrong.  You mention principles of Standard and Poors & corporate credit ratings in the same thread as BTC ponzi schemes - you are comparing financial ratings based on balance sheets of multi-national corporations whom have to adhere to SEC accounting laws with what amounts to nothing more than a scamming lemonade stand on the internet

Nice comparison you have there.

The truth about the world banking sector is allready out but then again you only look at a deck of cards 24/7 so you clearly have no idea about the LIBOR scandal, HSBC scandal etc.

SEC is non-existing, its bought and paid for by the banks so they can self regulate themself(non-regulation) and if you still think the world is run by those who offer a service(banks) and monitored by capable indepdent SEC offices then sir you have no fucking idea whats going on in this world.

Its time for you to spend atleast 10% of your gambling disease time and find out whats going on in the real world, there is NO REGULATION and it allready crumbled, please note $4.6 trillion missing pension funds due to LIBOR scandal and this is slowly affecting every country.

I have some wisdom for you, first educate yourself before you have the nerve to try and educate others.

Here is a fun read about Bryan Micon: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/bryan-micon-rolled-12k-o-town-singers-buddy-19295/

This was one of the GEMs of the quoted forum post made by Bryan Micon on NWP:

Quote:
Get me my [censored] $ back and I'll give you $2k of it. Tell me what you need clarified. If someone wants to take off the month of October and has a car and nothing else to do (I think I have a good shot of finding someone like that here....) I'll pay your expenses for a few weeks to go DOG bounty hunter-style on his ass and of course upload pictures and video to NWP as you go.

LMAO!!!!

Ok, one. But it is only from 10 days ago. Micon launches
SNGDOMINATION.COM

Micon's SNG results:

Micon 578 -$2 $83 -2% -$936 - FullTilt
micon 883 -$4 $92 4% -$3,900 - PokerStars

Just to give you an idea, Micon launches a training site to teach people how to win SNG's but at the same time look at his SNG track record just before launching the site? Micon isnt even a clever scammer, just play retarded.

"give me 12k and i give you 100k tomorrow . . ."

Thats how Micon got scammed, he paid someone 12K cause the guy told him he would get 100K back the day after ie. Micon was happy to invest 12k for 24hrs in return looking for ~833% Interest. Legendary Micon, you go champ of scam detections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-mBUA-uUDM  -> Priceless, total douche and perhaps an Phil Hellmuth impersonator since he cant stand on his own 2 sticks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdpuTMY6yMU -> Must watch, self proclaimed superstar opens his heart over his own absolute karma-based stupidity. Yes Bryan this is what happens when you scam others out of their money selling pokerbooks with a losing poker playing history on the subject you are training ie. SNG.

The worst thing possible for the bitcoin poker industry is to get Micon involved up front, he will fucking destroy all hope for it.

(she's taking some time to get ready, didn't realize it was a slam-dunk and wouldn't require any time)

1)  yes I was paid to put my name on a handful of poker teaching products, I told them what I knew and the company that paid me marketed it.  Here are some SNG stats maybe you missed:  



2)  check my live stats / up $250k at Rio since 2006 / 2 WSOP FTs, 63rd in the main event.  Seriously, let's argue more about my poker playing and less about $1M+ BTC ponzi schemes.

3)  Donkdown is my poker forum and podcast, anyone can call me up any show and debate me on any topic.  this invitation is open to you.  We can debate my poker ability, results, and respect in the poker community.  Listen to my last 2 podcast, where Jennifer Harmon was our special guest one week followed by a 40-minute interview with Daniel Negraneu the next.  I think these people do not come on scamming podcast shows run by scumbags.

4)  In addition to gambling, I am involved with a handful of other ventures.  I'd say my time is split closer to 60/40 in favor of business these days.  Take a google around me, and see if you really think I'm a total scumbag or may be a guy with a few years on him that can spot some major scams and hopefully save some ppl some BTC.

It doesnt matter what some of the Pleb poker players might say on your shows, they do all their shit for publicity. You have next to zero respect in the poker community where apparently you feel important.

You sir are full of shit and the crap you showed doesnt relate to the bryan micon accounts at sharkscope, how convenient?

http://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-Statistics//networks/*/players/micon

Can you count those numbers ? The total is a losing player across all accounts, and I bet you probably have a few more that is even bigger losers.

Now stop pulling crap out of your ass, you know you are full of shit.

PS. I nearly forgot, well done on being down just over $100k allready for 2012 live events at just the WSOP, I bet its actually alot bigger than that.

[dooglus]

http://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-Statistics//networks/*/players/micon

Can you count those numbers ? The total is a losing player across all accounts, and I bet you probably have a few more that is even bigger losers.

I'll see if I can count them:

Code:

>>> -16259 - 11 +1222 +37031 -11272
10711

What's that?  The last loss is so big it doesn't fit in the box?

Code:

>>> -16259 - 11 +1222 +37031 -112725
-90742

Wow.  That's a lot of money to be losing at poker!

[Micon]

do you trust what bitpay says on these matters?  

I see Bit-Pay describing their trades that take advantage of volatility -- something that appears to be courtesy of pirate, and they clearly state their opinion that pirate is ponzi, but is there more from Bit-Pay that I'm not aware of that you are referring to?

Real businesses are hurt by these BTC scams.  

Well, bitcoin's image is hurt by them, and in that way yes -- real businesses are harmed from there being unsavory dealings like these occurring.

But are you referring to a more direct harm from these type of "investments"?

Personally, I feel the main problem with these comes from deception.  The words "bank", "savings", "deposits" come with expectations as to their meaning.   If you are running a HYIP, pyramid, ponzi or a penny auction even, then call it what it is and nobody would have a problem with it.  But when the words "bank", etc. are used for a ponzi, then that's deception.

1)  After meeting some BitPay guys at CES & seeing their underlying business model as sound and much needed in the market IMO - I put a lot of stock in how they feel about BTC matters - as they are a real company seriously researching their field - and they come to the same conclusion I do, that Pirate is a Ponzi.  Nothing more than that. 

2) on that same topic - does this forum believe that pirate was responsible for the recent BTC volatility?  Seems like some1 with USD on the sidelines that just fired into play..

3)  My main goal is to get these scams out of the Marketplace > lending  category - it makes us look foolish and stupid to anyone new exploring BTC

[Micon]

1)  trolls trying to derail this thread into my poker career - you are all free to debate me each and every wed. on my podcast, or post on my uncensored poker forum all the data you can find / endlessly try and tell me I haven't won $ playing poker.  hint:  when doing sharkscope searches, remember "live events" is for 2011 and 2012.   I have played live events since 2006.  http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=67931  here is a relatively complete list showing my $500k in winnings with ~ $250k in buy ins.

2) but anyone bringing up poker in this thread is clearly trying to change the subject.  The simple fact is that there is no way I stay silent when I see a blatant, gigantic scam spreading throughout the BTC community.  Smart people that understand this situation please +1 in this thread so the vocal minorities that are so laughably defending ponzi scams are met with clear logic at each post.

3)  anyone want to explain to me why the BS&T thread is locked?  can Pirate lock that thread at his whim? who authorizes that?  who runs bitcointalk.org? (sorry for newbie Q's, please answer me or PM me if you feel foolish answering publicly)

[Micon]

We have no conclusive proof of it being a ponzi just yet. It well could be, for example, some guy in possession of some alien tech who feels strangely charitable towards "naive and greedy" part of this forums population.

Also since I am a real person and not some cooked up anonymous identity, I have to be careful and not set myself up for a libel lawsuit.

I think you can be safe that "Pirateat40" won't be bringing any legal suits vs you for libel.

I received my issue of Bitcoin Mag a few weeks ago.  Loved the "who is Satoshi" article that documented the various posts that he has made, highlighting the best ones (I have done the search and skimmed the results - your writer pulled the best and explained... awesome)

A+ sarcasm.  Obvious ponzi is obvious to those of us in possession of common sense.  Certainly the foolish will throw their BTC at these things no matter what we say, but I supposed it's worth the eventual +1 to "please listen to me in the future" reputation.

Plz make an issue #2 / it's an awesome thing you guys did.

[Micon]

Having just seen Danks' latest post, I'm also compelled to state that Micon is driving me to the point of defending Dank.

(Hey Dank, I read your posts every day because they are entertaining, as are some of the replies.  Doesn't mean I'd lend to you (it's a risk thing), but I haven't seen evidence of a ponzi from you over the past year.)

1)  Patrick - you seem to be a guy with a good heart, i.e. not looking to scam people - but you are just too stupid to understand what is going on here.  There is no such business that can pay 2% per week interest, save that of top level drug manufacture.

2)  If a guy, for any reason, says he can and will pay you 2%+ per week for an investment he is outright scamming you, or operating an extremely illegal business.   Where is this "profit" coming from?  have you ever, one time, thought to yourself "wow, he's got this amazing money machine, and all you need to do is input more money and even MORE money comes out!  it's great that him and all these other "investment" takers are letting us in on these amazing businesses that they never tell us exactly what they are doing"

3)  I feel like your eyes are closed, fingers in your ears, not wanting to hear the truth even though you believe it because you are so heavily invested in these scams.

[dooglus]

1)  Patrick - you seem to be a guy with a good heart, i.e. not looking to scam people - but you are just too stupid to understand what is going on here.

You don't bring people over to your point of view by calling them stupid.

Incidentally, did you know that Patrick runs his own fund which currently pays 1.5% per week?
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.0

Does that qualify him for your list of scammers?

3)  anyone want to explain to me why the BS&T thread is locked?  can Pirate lock that thread at his whim? who authorizes that?  who runs bitcointalk.org? (sorry for newbie Q's, please answer me or PM me if you feel foolish answering publicly)

Anyone can lock any thread that they themselves started.  I think there's a link in the lower left corner of the page; you should see it on this thread.  There's no way for a thread's starter to control what other people say in their thread other than by locking the thread.  Maybe it's possible to ask moderators to delete individual posts, but that's time consuming, and I don't know how effective it is.

Pirate locked his thread when the "is it or isn't it a ponzi" posts swamped all the other posts in the thread.

[Clipse]

1)  trolls trying to derail this thread into my poker career - you are all free to debate me each and every wed. on my podcast, or post on my uncensored poker forum all the data you can find / endlessly try and tell me I haven't won $ playing poker.  hint:  when doing sharkscope searches, remember "live events" is for 2011 and 2012.   I have played live events since 2006.  http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=67931  here is a relatively complete list showing my $500k in winnings with ~ $250k in buy ins.

2) but anyone bringing up poker in this thread is clearly trying to change the subject.  The simple fact is that there is no way I stay silent when I see a blatant, gigantic scam spreading throughout the BTC community.  Smart people that understand this situation please +1 in this thread so the vocal minorities that are so laughably defending ponzi scams are met with clear logic at each post.

Like I said, you may have been a winning player long ago but you arnt anymore so anything you state regarding your so-called profession is pointless.

I know alot of winning players from back in the days when every 2nd guy at the table didnt know his straights from his flushes and funny all the reject poker players of those days such as yourself is among the biggest losing players today.

I only refered to your "pro poker playing" history because you brought it up as if its some way to validate just how orsom you are while all along being a recent years losing player, do you keep your boat afloat with other peoples money today since you surely dont earn it at the poker tables.

Again you also ignored the facts I pointed out regarding how you got scammed, your absolute greed of sending $12K to a known scammer with a history of scamming(you didnt know it at that time since you didnt do ANY research) and then expected $100k the next day and you wondered why you got scammed? Guess what you didnt, your scam money from what you did to others on twoplustwo simply got shifted over to a new scammer, sucks to be you.

Lets just be honest with each other for a moment and confirm that you came to the bitcoinworld, congrats on that, because you simply couldnt earn a living at poker anymore and figured you would try to get into the bitcoin action while it last. Bitcoin poker wont last long if you have any hand in it, so please dont ruin it for everyone you silly goose.

3)  I feel like your eyes are closed, fingers in your ears, not wanting to hear the truth even though you believe it because you are so heavily invested in these scams.

That seems familiar, I recall this guy named Bryan Micon who thinks hes a pro winning poker player, wonder what happened to him. 

[RDegas]

This problem with this whole, "no business can give 2% interest per week without being a scam" line of thinking is it's way too insular, and lacking of any historical nuance.  Such an interest rate probably is not sustainable in many (if not all) established businesses.  Bitcoin is not established.  There is good historical precedence for emergent technologies/business practices making a boat load of money for people who are wise enough to understand the volatility and opportunities at hand.  

Rockefeller made a whole bunch of people millionaires back when Standard Oil was just starting out.  Ford made plenty of people rich when he figured out a new paradigm.  The examples are legion.  

Micon is making a mistake based on several cognitive biases, here.  Some of these ventures may well be scams, but it seems to me that there are many independent people on these boards with large amounts of cash and capital at stake.  It's within all of our best interests to keep it as honest as possible.  Just because something is extremely risky, doesn't mean it's a scam.  It just means it's...extremely risky.  

[Clipse]

This problem with this whole, "no business can give 2% interest per week without being a scam" line of thinking is it's way too insular, and lacking of any historical nuance.  Such an interest rate probably is not sustainable in many (if not all) established businesses.  Bitcoin is not established.  There is good historical precedence for emergent technologies/business practices making a boat load of money for people who are wise enough to understand the volatility and opportunities at hand.  

Rockefeller made a whole bunch of people millionaires back when Standard Oil was just starting out.  Ford made plenty of people rich when he figured out a new paradigm.  The examples are legion.  

Micon is making a mistake based on several cognitive biases, here.  Some of these ventures may well be scams, but it seems to me that there are many independent people on these boards with large amounts of cash and capital at stake.  It's within all of our best interests to keep it as honest as possible.  Just because something is extremely risky, doesn't mean it's a scam.  It just means it's...extremely risky.  

Ive pointed out in an early long winded post of mine why Bryan is thinking the way he is, read how he got scammed and why he got scammed. This is why Bryan is so epicly closed minded now, being sceptical is fine but outright KNOWING the facts that isnt available is just plain insane.

[miscreanity]

Micon is a scam and needs to be added to the list in the OP.

[PatrickHarnett]

2)  If a guy, for any reason, says he can and will pay you 2%+ per week for an investment he is outright scamming you, or operating an extremely illegal business.   Where is this "profit" coming from?  have you ever, one time, thought to yourself "wow, he's got this amazing money machine, and all you need to do is input more money and even MORE money comes out!  it's great that him and all these other "investment" takers are letting us in on these amazing businesses that they never tell us exactly what they are doing"

Actually, I could have paid 2%/wk for a while - just ask the people paying between 2.5% and 3.5%/wk how I did it.  I chose to make margin, so only pay 1.5% on the basis on my business (and 1%/week from 1 Aug- actually from 3 Aug because I normally work on a Friday cycle, just haven't bothered to tell anyone).  I've only been doing deposits and lending since January, but at least did my homework. 

I currently only have 70+ depositors and I pay out to them on around 16k bitcoin.  It is quite achievable in this little wild-west bitcoin business.  I also have a large number of current and past people that have and are still paying me interest on the loans I have extended.  They can (and do attest) that these rates of return are possible.

For an admitted newbie, sounds like you should do some more research - there are some nice (stable, non-ponzi) assets paying more than 2% if you know where to look and some of my best investments are much better than that.  Feel free to call me stupid, I have been called worse (Starfish waves to Bitlane for the retarded comment).

So, I am one of these people paying out "unbelievable" rates of interest, and have transparently disclosed to anyone that was interested how it is possible.  Would you like an account at Starfish BCB? (note - this is not labelled a bank, and people do run their accounts like a normal pass-book account). 

[Bitcoin Oz]

Is pawnbroking a scam because they charge 20% a month ?

[Bitcoin Oz]

Micon is just jealous because he didnt get here first to setup his own scam.

[DeaDTerra]

He has almost said every single investor is a ponzi, I am waiting on my turn xD
//DeaDTerra

[Clipse]

He has almost said every single investor is a ponzi, I am waiting on my turn xD
//DeaDTerra

Give him time, if he doesnt turn 12k BTC into 100k BTC within 24hrs you would also be called a scam, that is Micon's benchmark, hahaha.