ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Chris_Sabian]

AM is not the latest crap in bitcoin world.  

aaaactually, i beg to differ.

AM - 0.554 J/Gh at 11.52 Gh/s.
Spondoolies - 0.58 J/Gh at 7.5 Gh/s.

Not my thread, but I need to set the record straight.
Our ASICs can achieve above 10 GHs. It was just one corner measurement.
At the end, it's system efficiency. I saw three examples of systems based on AM3 in the wild, all of them above 1.1 W/GHs.
Out system is about 0.85 W/GHs at full power.
We've taped out our 2nd gen ASIC, and we'll be below 0.45 W/GHs at the system level in two months.

AM3 can't compete on 28nm, since it's "custom design", which means it will take at least 6 months to produce 28nm. Well in time for our 3rd gen.
Finally, we can compete on the price as well.

Can you guys imagine FC showing up in this guy's thread and commenting about how they are doomed?

Friedcat won't.  He a man of few words as results matter, not rhetoric.

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[jimmothy]

Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.

[RoadStress]

Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.

First of all asicminer isn't shipping anything. They are selling chips to third-party. Secondly I still haven't seen any of these miners in the wild while my SP10 miner is working hard to make me happy. Thirdly I'm hashing with 1.5Th/s in a small 1.25U box. How much space/cables/PSU/etc is needed for asicminer machines to reach 1.5Th/s?(not to mention the power consumption)

[ryepdx]

As you say, ASICMINER isn't selling mining machines directly. Most of us are invested in ASICMINER because we want in on the profits from chip sales and franchising. The mining income at this point is going to be dwarfed by the income from those other two sources, and that's fine by me. Comparing Spondoolies and ASICMINER seems like an apples-and-oranges comparison to me.

[jimmothy]

Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.

First of all asicminer isn't shipping anything. They are selling chips to third-party. Secondly I still haven't seen any of these miners in the wild while my SP10 miner is working hard to make me happy. Thirdly I'm hashing with 1.5Th/s in a small 1.25U box. How much space/cables/PSU/etc is needed for asicminer machines to reach 1.5Th/s?(not to mention the power consumption)

You do realize the 1.25u case is a gimmick? It is impossible to cool 1kw/1u so you need to spread them out. That means both the 1.25u sp10's and the (3u?) hashratio machines both take up the same space.

But for those wanting a machine that sounds like a chainsaw, SP10 wins hands down.

[bkminer]

My question is, from my reading if the design is good a fully custom chip outperforms standard cell chips. If that's wrong why would anyone do full custom design?

[RoadStress]

As you say, ASICMINER isn't selling mining machines directly. Most of us are invested in ASICMINER because we want in on the profits from chip sales and franchising. The mining income at this point is going to be dwarfed by the income from those other two sources, and that's fine by me. Comparing Spondoolies and ASICMINER seems like an apples-and-oranges comparison to me.

Yes franchising underpreforming ASICs is the right way to profit from chip sales.

Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.

First of all asicminer isn't shipping anything. They are selling chips to third-party. Secondly I still haven't seen any of these miners in the wild while my SP10 miner is working hard to make me happy. Thirdly I'm hashing with 1.5Th/s in a small 1.25U box. How much space/cables/PSU/etc is needed for asicminer machines to reach 1.5Th/s?(not to mention the power consumption)

You do realize the 1.25u case is a gimmick? It is impossible to cool 1kw/1u so you need to spread them out. That means both the 1.25u sp10's and the (3u?) hashratio machines both take up the same space.

But for those wanting a machine that sounds like a chainsaw, SP10 wins hands down.

Gimmick for what? Here is a picture with 4 stacked with no problem(thank you tzortz):


3U is the final case for the hashratio's miners? Show me a video of one running in a miner's farm.

[Guy Corem]

My question is, from my reading if the design is good a fully custom chip outperforms standard cell chips. If that's wrong why would anyone do full custom design?

I'm not feeling comfortable posting here. It's a legit question, so I'll answer. Please continue further discussion via PM

Sure, fully custom chip done correctly will outperform standard cells chips. The shining example is BitFury rev2 55nm UMC ASIC
To get a killer ASIC, you need to have better SHA256 implementation, coupled with custom design and some more elements I won't discuss.
Such a killer ASIC could achieve 0.1 W/GHs and sub 0.05 $/GHs on 28nm process

[jimmothy]

Gimmick for what? Here is a picture with 4 stacked with no problem(thank you tzortz):


3U is the final case for the hashratio's miners? Show me a video of one running in a miner's farm.

I am talking more about mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical. It really shouldn't matter if you're mining at home since you have the space and not enough heat to matter.

I don't have a video since these are brand new but heres a pic:

Also have no idea how big they are. 3u is just my guess.

[necro_nemesis]

I wish Spoondoolies would also go public so I can have some shares during the AM takeover.  

[RoadStress]

I am talking more about mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical. It really shouldn't matter if you're mining at home since you have the space and not enough heat to matter.

I don't have a video since these are brand new but heres a pic:

Also have no idea how big they are. 3u is just my guess.

So for mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical you are saying that 3U? is much better than 1.25U? There is a contradiction in that statement.

When someone tells you that SP-Tech has better power consumption you are bragging about AM's chip being faster. When someone tells you that SP-Tech has better miner density you are bragging about price. Always derailing from the subject. It seems that you are trying so hard to compare SP10 miners which are available since March with AM miners which were just released (well not really because they have chips in hands for almost 2 months now) and which don't seem to exist out in the miners hands.

[jimmothy]

I am talking more about mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical. It really shouldn't matter if you're mining at home since you have the space and not enough heat to matter.

I don't have a video since these are brand new but heres a pic:

Also have no idea how big they are. 3u is just my guess.

So for mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical you are saying that 3U? is much better than 1.25U? There is a contradiction in that statement.

I will clarify:

IF you can cool 40kw/rack then you can have greater density with SP10 over a hashratio machine.

However the majority of datacenters cannot cool anywhere near 40kw/rack. More like 10-20kw/rack meaning SP10's would need to be spaced ~3u apart.

So without extreme cooling, heat density for both devices are about the same.

But if you are going to go with extreme cooling, you might as well go with 2 phase immersion cooling.

[hdbuck]

My question is, from my reading if the design is good a fully custom chip outperforms standard cell chips. If that's wrong why would anyone do full custom design?

Premium. Profit. But less quantity and more unstable.

[RoadStress]

I am talking more about mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical. It really shouldn't matter if you're mining at home since you have the space and not enough heat to matter.

I don't have a video since these are brand new but heres a pic:

Also have no idea how big they are. 3u is just my guess.

So for mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical you are saying that 3U? is much better than 1.25U? There is a contradiction in that statement.

I will clarify:

IF you can cool 40kw/rack then you can have greater density with SP10 over a hashratio machine.

However the majority of datacenters cannot cool anywhere near 40kw/rack. More like 10-20kw/rack meaning SP10's would need to be spaced ~3u apart.

So without extreme cooling, heat density for both devices are about the same.

But if you are going to go with extreme cooling, you might as well go with 2 phase immersion cooling.

Let me clarify:
- for small miners I'm still waiting to see 4 hashratio's miners stacked like the 4 SP10
- for big miners: well anyone investing a lot of money into miners will surely find a way to cool a 40kw/rack. If they won't then they need to space them apart, but I am sure that you can fit 2 SP10 miners in a 3U space. It leave just enough space between the miners. Even if they space them bigger, you are still trying to compare a miner which is available since March with one that nobody has except the Chinese manufacturers.

[jimmothy]

for small miners I'm still waiting to see 4 hashratio's miners stacked like the 4 SP10

Not exactly 4 but this might be what you're looking for.(10th/s)

[elasticband]

put it in a sack, drown the fu*ker and watch it survive and spawn again.

well done to the team for getting us this far in 1 year since gen1

[RoadStress]

for small miners I'm still waiting to see 4 hashratio's miners stacked like the 4 SP10

Not exactly 4 but this might be what you're looking for.(10th/s)

I see that you are in a good mood if you are posting rotated images just to please me. I will give you credit for that

[Anotheranonlol]

My question is, from my reading if the design is good a fully custom chip outperforms standard cell chips. If that's wrong why would anyone do full custom design?

it's not wrong. full custom is only for expert as there is more risk. BitFury has show precedent, i guess he can decimate competition on a v3 chip. and from some of the replies here are really defensive, what spoondoolies have said is correct, he is not stirring the pot only writing factual things.

people seem to rejoice about rockminer confirmation of chips they have order, did they miss btcgarden has ordered more than 10x the amount?

[willBTC]

Spoondoolies hardware might be marginally better, but the business model is different from AM.
We shouldn't really be scared of other competitors out there, those playing a price war or only pursuing a more efficient product are destined to fail in the long run. The real game is owning the market, and for that there are many more tricks in the bag to accomplish so.
In fact AM is way ahead of the game since day one, first as a public mining farm, secondly pushing immersion cooling, thirdly as a franchise, foruthly as a chip supplier with key partnerships. It is this vision what makes AM an outstanding contender, and it is way more threatening when you realize how well capitalized is this company to do whatever they want.

It is key for a CEO to know when to hold his horses and when to pivot its business model, and that is something that Friedcat seems to be quite competent at its assessment.
I don't know if you guys realized that Friedcat is playing an asymmetric warfare here, not only decentralized mining farms with its franchises, but also decentralized the production of hardware by getting solid partnerships such as Rockminer's.
AM goal seems to be to eventually become the OEM of asic miners.

It is not Spoondolies vs. AM.
It is Spondoolies against all AM partners out there inundating the market with AM hardware.
So what if Friedcat ends up partnering up with more hardware manufacturers, it will be funny to see how Bitfury, AntMiner, Spoondolies, BFL perform fighting against a constellation of AM partners.
Especially if the ratio ends up favoring towards the AM gang... And we might already be getting there.
AM is in a completely different league.

The battle of the hashrates is insignificant against the war of owning the marketshare.
Geeks can't survive it unless you have a clear business sense.

PS: those mocking us regarding to "imaginary dividends". Let me tell you that AM ROI was beyond 1000% IN BITCOINS, so multiply that by the 200% appreciation of the bitcoin price during that period, and that's only in dividends. Anything extra I might get now, it is just money falling from the skies for me.

Totally agreed!

[zumzero]

I am delighted to see my first ever bitcoin investment start to pick up again just in time for the next wave of adoption. Having sold 50% @ 3.5 and wondering if holding the other long was a bad move it seems patience is indeed a virtue.