But I'm not the only one. We do call that mess capitalism and with reason. Is your definition unlike a burning rats nest?
Also, there is a distinct 'we' that sees that anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron.
Then again, this isn't a capitalism thread.
Anarcho-capitalism is indeed an oxymoron. There is (and has never been) no such thing as an anarchic, unruled, untaxed economy/market/capitalism. Capitalism is collectivism and always a state bastard. Anarchy is the self-sufficiency of a blood-community and therefore the absence of economic interaction with outsiders. If I were to direct you to a non-fiction book that laid out, in great detail, an ongoing, unruly, untaxable & mostly free market society; would you bother to read it? If I haven't already... |
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And you can be a felon for mouthing off to a cop. Which ALL cops deserve. Yes, I know that is not directly relevant to this case. I'm just sayin' that in the modern Imperial court, Felon don't mean much, morally speaking.
Sorry if I missed a post before this, but I'm taking it at face value (so if I come out looking like a fool, so be it, it wouldn't be the first time  ). Are you suggesting that it's a felony to swear at a police officer (which it's not)? Also I don't get where the dislike for all police comes from. I know I'm probably missing something here but I had to post this anyway just in case. Technically, it's not a felony to tell a cop to get bent. But he/she/it can and will make something up (usually "resisting arrest" even where there was neither resistance nor arrest) and will be believed one thousand percent by the Infernal Repairs department. And he can/will beat the shit out of you and get away with it. My dislike for all police is simple enough. I could just cite 44 years of living in a crumbling Empire, but I'll be more specific. I dislike criminal gangs, regardless of WHAT mafia they belong to. Anyone who still thinks that police are there to protect anyone BUT governments and their favored subjects (i.e. NOT the commoners) either needs to get off the happy pills or get out more. I have no real fear of other gangs, as I've no intention of stepping on their turf. But cops are just about always looking for trouble, so as to exacerbate it. They are above the law in all but a few "throw the people a bone" cases. They routinely get away with murder (as documented daily) and they make boastful claims about how dangerous their jobs are. I could go on for pages citing chapter and verse, but instead I'll leave you with a name to google. William Norman Grigg. Only "elected" officials get my ire more than cops. It's an immoral profession. |
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As for me, I've become unimpressed with the tawdry in my 'old' age. I see elegance in simplicity and neatness. Give me a clean, organized 'squared away' look, over wood-paneled, or jewel encrusted, or disco-lighted, any day of the week. That extra $600, in my eyes, is another 40 or so chips, including populated boards. I'll take an extra 11 Ghash of function, over vast amounts of "form" any day. As we used to say in the mechanic business, "The chrome won't get you home." That is to say, you're better off putting your money into making your vehicle more functional than you are into making it more pretty. The same holds true for an investment like bitcoin mining hardware. Are you in it to make money, or are you in it to impress people?
I just turned 25, but I must be getting "old", as I 100% agree! Never saw the importance of bling if it's an inferior product. Pearls on a pig, they used to say. Now, I have no problem skimping out on those extra 40 chips, if it means spending that $600 on a proper casing, cabling, grounding, clean power, proper cooling/airflow/venting, etc. Some of those home made zip tie rigs bug me to no end, as while it's cheap, it's also just asking for failure one of these days. I can see the appeal of both sides of the argument, though I fall on the side of the "old" guys on utiitarian vs. ornate. (I'm 44). But I always did prefer simple and clean to cluttered. Don't see it as necessarily an age thing, just taste. |
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From your POV, I assume you think they never intended to. From mine, I think they did, at least at one point, but having dropped their collective genitalia in a meat grinder, they are to lazy or too stubborn to hang it up. Let me be clear about this point it doesn't matter what their intentions are or were they simply lack integrity. Personally I don't have an opinion on BFL in terms of their intent I could careless because what mattered was or what matters now is for them to get units in the hands of their customers without any further delay or subterfuge and unfortunately with every declaration they keep on showing they lack integrity. I agree with your assessment Biomech and that of the many others who have voiced outrage and concern as consumers. What I disagree with, which is only a minor point really, is that anyone needs to even think about legal matters to make an informed decision with regards to dealing with BFL in the present moment. As a consumer if you are still holding out hope for BFL to deliver on their promises you are simply not aware of what is going on and I think it is important and right for the community to clarify and help everyone learn what BFL has promised and failed to deliver and to point out every inconsistency from BFL. Simply they are not trustworthy and the consumer should make any decision from here on out based on that fact. Do not trust them to fulfill their promises as there is clearly ample evidence from their own statements they are incapable of delivering as promised. Sort of a dead horse but with the shills and multiple accounts from BFL we as a community need to stand up and defend newer community members from BFL at this point. No one should be ordering BFL units at this point given the market it would not be economically sound. I don't think we actually disagree on this point. I think the American legal system is broken beyond repair, if it were any good to begin with. My problem with the whole scenario (and it's been less you than a lot of other LOUD voices) is the sheer hysteria. BFL is hardly the first company to shill a product they didn't have, nor will they be the last. A degree of warning is warranted. The soapbox may even be warranted. The "every startup is going to be like BFL" thing going on is not warranted. Again, that's really not aimed at you. Most of my exposure to your posts has been in the Klondike thread. Your level of knowledge on modern electronics is way beyond mine, but you explain it well enough that I'm not totally lost  30 years ago, it was easy for me. Now, it's gotten so complex for even "simple" things that I have a hard time keeping up. BKKCoins loses me every other paragraph, but it's fun to try. Anyway, my basic take on BFL, at this point, is whether or not they had good intentions they are no longer a viable option. Which sucks, given the prices they're touting. But given that 28nm is being heavily researched and Avalon is about to ship (which they've demonstrated the ability to do) and ASICMiner is already delivering, I just don't see BFL ever catching up. I'd like to be wrong, again given their prices, but if I ever did buy from them it would have to be in person. Which is a long trip both from where I am and where I'm moving to. The best option for those who've already thrown money at 'em, as I see it, is a refund. The next best would be a hostile takeover (which I suspect a lot of you purchasers out there could arrange<wink>) by people who are dedicated to getting to market. They have demonstrated that the product exists. |
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I'm mainly mining this one to learn the ins and outs of mining. If it becomes valuable beyond knowledge gained, cool. If not, I'm having fun and learning new things. I figure with a name like Lucky Coin, it's gotta be mainly for fun anyway. Right? right.
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We all hate taxes, but we understand why we must pay them
Yes. Because there are people in other places that must be killed, maimed, and deprived of their property. This level of violence requires a great deal of funding. And if WE don't pay for it, who will? I mean you can't expect the politicians to actually do something PRODUCTIVE, that defeats the purpose of being an arrogant lazy fuck! The only reason I pay taxes is to keep the gun out of my face. They do nothing I approve of, nor do the bastards have anything I want. |
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How do you deal with the thought about taxes? Generally I smoke a joint and the thought goes away. And then they use your tax dollars to bust in your door, steal your dope, kidnap you, and ruin your life. The thought returns. My point exactly, Anarchism is atheism in regards to politics. Therefore syndicalism is agnosticism? Or mutualism +1 |
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I hereby decree a meta conversation. For the record, I agree wholeheartedly with Zarathustra's definitions. I agree with Myrkul's partial rejection of the state, and maintain that capitalism and statism are symbiotic. I agree with blablahblah's partial rejection of capitalism, but disagree about the implications of anarchism. People don't always have the same meanings for words. Arguing about definitions is semantic bullshit. EDIT: "Societies are communities". Here you can see, what kind of bullshit we 'learn' in the dictionaries of the authority. I agree with @blablahblah.
Well, if you want to continue to define words however you feel like, I see no point in continuing a conversation with you. Have a nice day. Yes, my language is not the perverted patriarchal language of the authority. It is an anarchal language. Have also a nice day! Glock elbow watermelon Chinese macaroni chicken? That was a bad post and you should feel bad. Judging by a private message I just got from zarathrusta, he has a different perspective on democracy, since he's in one of the few places where it actually kind of works. That being said, I don't really care for the WORD capitalism, as it has been defined to include the state for so damn long. I've been an anarchist and a free market advocate for many years, so that is the term I'll use: Free Market. Socialism is the PUBLIC ownership of the means of production, and is necessarily statist. Fascism is a form of socialism in which the means of production is mixed, i.e. certain privileged individuals hold title to the means of production, but what they can produce, how they do it, and to whom they may sell or distribute it is controlled by the state. It is also known as a "mixed economy" or, especially by marxists, Capitalism. Adam Smith's definition of markets works better. When LET TO BE (Laissez Faire) markets tend to be smoother, and work out their own knots. The anti capitalists like to point out free market failures, but in truth they almost always happen in the most regulated of markets if they happen big. Yes, a new business is likely to fail, but the MARKET does not. The individuals involved screw up somehow, and it gets corrected. The so called invisible hand. Unfortunately, I am in the middle of moving across the freakin' country, so I don't have time to pursue this. I will say that I fall largely on the same side as Myrkul, from what I've seen so far. I will also state, for the record since I am new to this forum, that I was at one time a communist. I rejected it because as elegant as it seems on paper, it's adherents CANNOT explain how to get goods from a to c with any sort of regularity, other than just saying you don't "need" them. Free markets (including black markets) actually work regardless of belief. Realistic theories of polity have to accept that there is no such thing as an ideal world, and that what works BEST is better by orders of magnitude than what is simply pretty. The Communist Manifesto is pretty. Markets are not. Markets have WORKED since time immemorial. Communism has either accepted certain market elements or failed utterly. There are certain elements of socialism that I think could be implemented within an anarchic society, but they would require SMALL VOLUNTARY communities, and those communities could not enforce their will on OTHER communities and individuals who chose to act and think differently. Even within that, all sides would have to respect the property of the others. This does not require a state, but it does require arms. In a couple of weeks I'll be back online. I look forward to this discussion. Myrkul and Zarathrusta, you both have valid points. Cool your jets and you'll get farther into each other's heads. This is good advice from a life long hothead. |
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I still don't understand some people. ALL they have done so far is inform of their intentions. They have taken NO money, made NO presales, and haven't scammed ANYONE. What is their possible motivation to 'prove' anything before they even have a single product open for ordering?
Damn, just because BFL happened to be the slowest people in history to deliver on orders does not mean you have the right to act as entitled children.
And the thing is, we didn't even announce our company on this forum. We sent out a press release. We had to start this thread because someone was accusing us of being a scam on the very first day in a different thread. And honestly, less than 5% of the traffic we receive comes from this forum. Funny that. I was actually reading this forum for a month(ish) before that. I saw the press release, and the "possible scam" thread within 1/2 hour of each other. I had actually registered to follow the BKKCoins project just a bit before that. Then the "official" thread started up. The two impressions I've gotten from you have been basically that you and your associates are trying to set up a service that caters to what people like me want, and a certain amount of "holy shit, what did I just step in?" I do agree that showing the avalon preorder would ease some of the FUD, but I can also understand being reticent. Since you have not started taking preorders and have to my mind been forthcoming and responsive to most everything, I'm really only waiting to see who gets to market first. Of the projects I consider to be real, I see you having just two competitors. KNC and Steamboat. I suspect Steamboat will beat you to market, but I don't think he's able or honestly inclined to take it as far as you are trying to. I think you might be wise to hire a pr guy, if it's in your budget, cuz some of these guys are brutal. And their opinion seems to carry quite a bit of weight, even when it's pure bullshit. A PR guy is trained to deal with that. Just remember that there is no such thing as bad publicity, if you let it roll off ya and actually ARE delivering on your end. Once you bring it to market, the haters will be strangely silent. With the above in mind, and for those just waiting to denounce ANYONE who shows an ounce of support for a new project, I am not on your side, but I am rooting for you. You have, to my mind, the second best proposed commercial machines, and unlike KNC, I won't have to import my miner from Europe. It's hard enough to do interstate business, let alone international. Plus, by the time you get to market I'll be in Idaho, so I could easily drive down and get them myself. To the US market, even though your specs are middle of the road compared to others who are actively developing ASICS, you have some serious advantages if you can pull this off. And if you are even close to on schedule, you'll pull in some serious coin. Cheers, good luck, and I wish I was where you are instead of where I am. |
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Ok, I truly don't know what the hell I'm doing, but Cgminer seems to be mining on crypto-coins.de at about 4.5 KH/s without issue. We'll see how it goes If nothing else, I'm having fun for the first time in several years. As long as its spitting out accepted shares every so often! Where are you mining? crypto-coins.de, if you mean what pool. In the lower intestines of hell if you mean physical location (Pennsylvania). BTW, I had some of your namesake many times back when I lived in Idaho Yeah, it's mining. I got a bit in my wallet already, even at this ridiculously low hashrate. Tried it on a couple of bitcoin pools and it just looked at me funny |
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Agreed that there are definite gaps that need to be filled before anyone should feel comfortable sending them anything. However they aren't there yet.
Unfortunately with mining... If you wait until it's 100% safe the return is low because someone crazier than you took an earlier risk when it was only 50% safe. If I had to purchase today... I think I would end up with steamboat, though he is a bit more expensive compared to terrahash.
I'm leaning that way as well, though I am watching the race rather eagerly |
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I think the real problem is whether BFL will run out of cash before shipping all the devices owed to customers. It seems they are using pre-order funds for R&D, therefore they may not have enough funds left to ship to all the customers.
This isn't a real concern. They start shipping at reasonable levels, they will NOT have cash flow problems. They won't have to even begin to clear the backlog. If they shipped 1000 units in a week, enough people would jump on the bandwagon to cover shipping with ease. of course the odds of them doing that don't look to hot.. |
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...morally speaking.
If we are talking about morality we know for certain BFL is wanting in that area and as I said that is a basic human attribute acquired between 6 and 18 years of age. Needn't get into the legality of what they are doing all one needs to do is look at they veracity of their statements. Then their willingness to ignore those inconsistencies and continue to make what are obviously false statements. If a 6 year old can be a stand up human being and have an understanding of basic morality then why can't BFL? No real debate there, is there? BFL lacks integrity and a moral base from which to have a trusting relationship with this community. One should easily surmise that doing business with them is most likely going to result in more of their promises being broken, so get out now while you can is the right mantra for every BFL thread nothing less would be disingenuous at best. I sure as hell ain't gonna throw money at em. My only point, I guess, was that using anything the us court system says as a moral argument is a guaranteed loser, since they are by far the most immoral sons of bitches on the planet. Even if BFL was started with the intent to scam and nothing else, it's still amateur hour when compared to the people who "protect" us. In the end, I think they've sunk their company even if the product is real. About the best they (and customers) can hope for is a buyout by some other entity at this point. They are not going to resolve their production issues. From your POV, I assume you think they never intended to. From mine, I think they did, at least at one point, but having dropped their collective genitalia in a meat grinder, they are to lazy or too stubborn to hang it up. By the time they clean house and start shipping in any real fashion, Avalon chips will be all over the place, and there are at least a couple in the background developing 28nm ASICS, which I think will bring the price down and performance up to levels that BFL couldn't compete with if they WERE a professional organization. But hey, I could be wrong. Luckily, I "missed out" on the chance for an early pre order, and there won't be a late one. |
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I'll repeat myself on topic here:
TerraHash is a scam! They have shown nothing except template website and some CAD images. It takes few hours to have all that up. Also be warned that many on this thread are
scammer's friends and scammer himself using alt accounts. All posts pro-TerraHash are made by people who registered accounts around April and May 2013. Do not fall for the stories
like "I'm noob on this forum but I think TerraHash is legit", it is known tactic used countless times by now to persuade and lure naive, dumb or greedy into buying products or services.
TerraHash scam is about you sending them your Avalon chips and never getting anything back!
You seem to have a dog in this fight. Since I'm looking to buy assembled boards, in the event you are right, nothing will happen to me since I'm waiting for demonstrated product. But unless you are holding something out, you have the same evidence as the rest of it, and I'm sorry couselor, it's inconclusive. I am new on this forum, but hardly unknown on the internet. While you didn't specifically point that gun at me, I resent the implication. I wish I still lived in San Jose, I'd meet up with these guys and get some video. But unfortunately, my old ass is in the People's Republic of Pennsylvania and all I can do is watch from a distance. There is a hard corps of people on this forum that seem to view everything and everyone as a scam. Sorry if y'all got burned in the past. It's happened to practically everyone at some point. The newbie bashing is endemic to forums regardless of subject, and it gets really fucking annoying really fucking fast. You were a newbie not very long ago. In fact, your register date ( February 27, 2013, 01:02:47 AM) is about a week before I discovered this forum. Prior to that what little I knew about bitcoin came from Youtube, where I've been a member for many years, and bits and scraps in the news. Life being the bitch that it often is, my personal issues caused me to miss out on the early adoption of this interesting and potentially profitable hobby. I'm trying to rectify that, and ASIC looks like the next wave. If that offends you, happy to be of service. Now crank down the fucking volume and give people a chance. At one time William Gates was a newbie. And the early days of Microsoft were not exactly marked with professionalism either. |
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As far as I am concerned, "Democracy" (deliberately capitalized) is just as much a religion as Catholocism, Islam, et. al.
"Democracy is the worship of jackals by jackasses." - H. L. Mencken. Oh, and it's SEK 3, btw.  (sorry, big fan of Konkin) pfft. I'll chalk that up to not enough coffee! Yeah, I definitely fall on the side of agorism. I liked Menken's other quote on that too. "Democracy is the notion that the people know what they want and deserve to get it. Good and hard." Will fix my post asap. |
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this encourages hoarding all coins
The economics section already addresses the hoarding myth promoted by mainstream economics and throughly debunked by austrian economics. I will not debate this particular issue on this thread. The mechanics of what you're trying to do are completely over my head, but Austrian economics is most definitely not. For this comment alone, I'm watching this carefully. (and hopefully I'll learn something useful to both of us along the way!) When I was a kid, we called it "saving", and those who did it did better at life. |
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Ok, I truly don't know what the hell I'm doing, but Cgminer seems to be mining on crypto-coins.de at about 4.5 KH/s without issue. We'll see how it goes If nothing else, I'm having fun for the first time in several years. |
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drugs are bad for you didnt mommy tell you?
Yeah, she did. Told me a lot of other bullshit too. Everytime I do the opposite of her advice, things work out better than when I follow it. |
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ok, now I got another possible issue.
Roboscan is showing two trojans when I unzip cgminer. I d/l'ed it directly from the dev's site. Any possibility of this being real, or is this just the virus scanner being twitchy?
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Biomech I had that issue when I first downloaded it. I restarted windows then I just left it open a couple hours and it magically worked.
Restarted windows and it's working fine. Microsoft strikes again Thanks to MikeyVeez and you for the help! Now I just gotta wait for it to finish syncing. |
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