Hey, Alex, any danger of you checking your PM's

Sorry, couldn't resist.

a very quiet "whoosh".

I have watched China for a very long time, to the best of my ability.

While all governments are destructive to a greater or lesser degree, it seems that the chinese government does at least learn from it's mistakes. While the USA engages in madness (doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results) the chinese run into a wall, then go around it, then run into a different wall. Not ideal, but definitely better than engaging in pure madness.

If I have read correctly, the "1 billion starving chinamen' quote is no longer valid. They are now able to feed themselves without importing food. Of one thing I'm certain: Their economy is rising, along with their influence, and the USA needs them more than they need the USA. They know it, and so does Washington. This is very dangerous for the chinese, because Washington doesn't like to have powerful rivals. They have been the most rapacious of thieves for a great many years.

I'm not real sure of this, but it's my understanding that you can send a message through the blockchain to a specific address. You could try doing that to the addy you accidentally sent it to. Aside from that, you are at the mercy of the recipient. Hopefully they are honest. If they are, I'd let 'em keep a piece of it were it me.

You did better than I did. I was in my thirties before I figured out that practically everything I was taught as US history in school was either whitewashed, misdirected, or just plain fiction. It took becoming seriously involved in the system and seeing it from the inside to realize just how well the system works. This is why I started questioning all "reforms" and "reformers". It eventually led me to the philosophy I espouse today. Anarchism. Not really the traditional anarchism that so many on Youtube and similar venues ascribe to, but the basic definition: No kings. I'll not go into depth about it here, especially since judging by our respective posting histories our views are similar. But what I think that most americans either cannot or do not realize is that the system they are trying to "fix" during the pseudo election cycle isn't broken. It works as designed, as a diversion.

On the subject of the elections, I once used this as an analogy to what voting in an american election really is.

You walk into a small room. On your left is a Beretta 92FS, on your right is a Glock 17. Both excellent weapons, with slightly different characteristics, but the same overall performance. You then choose one of them, point it at your head and pull the trigger.

Which is the lesser evil?


I really like this. Is that original?

Well played!

Hmm. Based on this, the ENTIRE history of Christianity is at odds with the bible.

Oh.

Wait.

It is.

Otherwise you'd be killing every one... Oh.
Wait.

Your rulers are.

I'll do it. Some of you will like the results. I guarantee I won't lie about my Imperial ambitions. And I won't pussy around about conquest either. All of the Americas would be my first goal. Fuck the rest of the world for now. I'll just take the Americas. Once I recall the troops from N. Africa, Central Asia, and the middle east, I'll take Canada. They have high tech, but not a big enough army to withstand me. Then, Mexico. They are numerous and would make good conscripts. I'll march them in front when I conquer the southern resource areas. Once the Americas are consolidated, I'll make a deal with Beijing to split the rest between us.

Oh. And you WILL serve in the armed forces.


















Still think we need another hegemon, people?

(NewLiberty, I know better than to think you would subscribe to the above, but you did pose the question. )

What I see as different (the only "American Exceptionalism" that I subscribe to) is that past empires didn't hide that they were empires. Most embraced it as a righteous cause (it's not, but that's not the point), and even those that didn't, didn't pretend to be something else.

The United States of America, LLC. pretends that it isn't an empire. Even teaches it in schools to the point that the youth buy it, often for a lifetime.

Yet every action they take is aimed at expanding both territorially and legally into the lives of everyone. They even use the language of empire, such as "nation building" and "expanding our influence" and similar things, but haven't the courage to admit what they are. Or rather, they are more into lying than telling the truth. I'm not sure which it is, but I suspect the latter. In my time in american politics, I found that most politicians would prefer a stolen dime to an honestly gained dollar.

It's the tone. You come off like a guy that got the short splintery end of the stick. He comes across like a self righteous troll. I believe you. I don't believe him. That simple.

Oy vey.

By tone, I think I like Bargraphics better, but by content alone both of you prefer fighting to any possible solution.

Avenger, I get the impression that if someone handed you a bar of gold with no strings attached and no expectation of return, you'd find a flaw, whether or not one existed. And Bar? I think you'd say they gave you two.

That being said, my overall impression is that KnC has delivered better than any other company in this arena on everything except customer service. In that department, they appear to be sorely lacking, and it definitely needs addressed. This, despite some glaring positive examples, is unfortunately common in the high tech field. Geeks are not people persons for the most part, and people persons are not generally engineers. Finding that balance is awfully difficult. I think they will learn from this, and probably get better.

On that note, I severely disagree with Bitcoinorama, and that doesn't happen often. I like the guy. I tipped him even though I had no skin in the game just because I thought he earned it. But frankly, having personable customer service/pr people who have ZERO knowledge of the product would solve a lot of problems for this company. They could be a buffer between the customers and the engineering staff, get the appropriate answers within a reasonable time frame, and keep the customers calm and engaged. Waiting isn't so bad when you know why. Silence is not golden in customer service, ever. I don't think the people at KnC understand that. It's better to say nothing IN WORDS than to be silent. "I have no information right now" vs ".......".

Avenger, I think you would agree with me on that would you not? Had they been talking to you, delays nothwithstanding, you would not be so angry?

I've been a computer nut for a really long time. To put it in some perspective for those of you who either know history or are old farts like me, my first computer was a 2 year old IMSAI Altair. In all that time, I have seen more companies deliver late than on time, and maybe ten ever ahead of schedule on any new technology or even incremental iterations of technology. Delivering late was never that big of a problem, but silence has sunk several companies. Granted, in this subset of the industry, BFL set the bar so low you can be anything short of a straight up scam and look good by comparison, but I thought KnC would have done far worse than they actually did. And I still would have bet on them ahead of their competition. The only ones I was completely wrong about, both a positive and a negative example, were Bitfury and Terrahash. I thought the former would not deliver as promised and the latter would. KnC did better than I expected, Hashfast still looks shady, and I don't think Cointerra will make their target times, though I do think they are legit. I'm on the fence with BlackArrow, given their good former history. KnC is aware that they are about to have rather serious competition, and I think that will scare them enough that they will do better on customer service, which I frankly see as their only major flaw. All of the hardware problems come about from not having a proper development cycle, which in this business they really didn't have any options on that. If they took the time to do it to perfection before shipping, Cointerra would almost certainly have beat them to market, and possibly Hashfast as well. Bitfury did, but not with 28nm, which will probably mean a lot as the others come on line.

My name is Kevin Biomech and I approve this message.

Money, whether gold, silver, cowrie shells, bitcoin, or national/central bank fiat is what?

Anyone?

That's right, a UNIT OF EXCHANGE. Being that bitcoin is a decreasing unit (there is a finite, and somewhat predictable, amount in exchange at any time) it makes perfect economic sense to value it against other forms of exchange as your prime calculation. The BTC purists, luckily, do not own the day. If everything MUST be valued in just one currency, then it's not going to be a small cap one.

I was unable to get in on this round, and probably won't get in on the next either. Had I done so, my calculations were a long bet on the EXCHANGE RATE of BTC vs. the dollar and/or gold. I would have won, as the other non purists are winning. When you mine gold, you are intending to exchange it for other forms of currency, or hold it for it's value against other forms of exchange. When you "mine" bitcoin, the same paradigm applies. Sure, things are and will continue to be priced in bitcoin. The more the better. Some day it is likely that many things will be primarily priced in bitcoin. But there will always be other ways of evaluating it, and they will be valid. If, as many of you claim, this is a business, the only valid metric of your success is profit. If you gain that profit via the rise in value of bitcoin against other currencies, this is not only valid, it's good FOR BITCOIN as well as for your own bottom line. It's value vs. the world's reserve currency is what makes it attractive to the wide world.

Fair enough, this probably isn't the place. Right now my time is so limited that I can't pursue this in great detail, but if you'd be interested in debating it some other time and in a new thread, I would be up for that. In reading my original post, it came off as an attack. In reality, I just hadn't had my coffee yet I find a lot of your stated opinions to be similar to mine, and I like your posts. I think it would be an engaging debate.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that for now, except to say that economics is a rather serious hobby of mine. That is what initially attracted me to bitcoin, it's a novel approach to money. Not exactly fiat, not tangible, but with elements of both. It seems a worthy experiment from many different angles.

Aren't you? At least in part?

When I was mining gold in my youth, I did it for the money. Partially. I also did it for the adventure, the time spent in places that civilised people were unaware of or afraid of, and for the pure hell of it. But the money was definitely a motivator, if not the only one.

Had I known then what I know now, I would have held at least half my gold instead of selling it all, but I was VERY young.

When I get sufficient resources to start bitcoin mining, I will probably convert about half of it to fiat on the upswings in price, and hold the rest. It seems to be steadily trending toward the mainstream. It even made the front page of the Idaho Statesman yesterday. Not exactly an innovative newspaper. I doubt that bitcoin will ever replace national currencies, but I think it will be a stronger and stronger side currency.

Short Form. I think BTC will continue to rise against traditional fiat, and I think of it more as a store of value than a daily currency.

While I mostly agree with you, I'd have to say revolutions are a mixed bag. Usually a lot of good comes out of them, and a lot of suffering, and a lot of bad. They are NOT a good gamble, and should therefore be a last resort.

For the record I do not hate America. I hate the United States of America, a foreign power sitting in it's own nation called the District of Columbia. It IS NOT America, it's a ruling institution. By any rational definition, it is an empire. A rather egregious one, currently with more presence in the world than any previous including Rome and the British Empire.

If they were actually about the ideals they preach, they would not have a military presence in 3/4ths of the world, nor be dictating to other nations how they may live and what they may believe.

This parasite on the people of earth MUST be undone. Revolution is not a particularly good option, but the others take a long time, and we may not have that kind of time. I'll not be the first to pull the trigger. Education is a long game, and governments don't usually play long games, unless there is a king.

Well...

As a rather dedicated capitalist who isn't out to screw anyone, I'd have to say no. Not a gift. But a discount?

Why not? If I could produce a widget that 1/2 of those 4 billions wanted, and sell it for one satoshi over cost, and at that rate 1/2 of those 2 billions could buy it, that would be a profit of 1 billion satoshis. Other markets would bear a greater price, due to more affluence and a desire for things like better packaging, support, etcetera. As a marketer, I'd be a fool NOT to do this.

Right now, it's done to a small degree but tariffs and import duties and general statist horseshit interferes and adds to that price to the point where they CAN'T afford it. In all of these sessions lambasting capitalism, I almost NEVER see those doing the bashing pointing out the immense harm of regulation and other statist bullshit.

When it comes to marketing, I have no prejudices save one: Can you pay? That's it. I also would like to do good by those less fortunate should I become more fortunate, so, yes, I would give some stuff away at or below cost if I had the excess. A principled capitalist realizes very quickly that every person who's life he improves is a potential customer. Charities operated by corporations and rich individuals are highly effective when they DON'T follow the socialist model. A useful charity gives a hand UP, not a hand OUT.

A person operating a private charity measures their success by the number of people who STOP using their services. A "publicly funded" charity gets it's funding based solely on the number of people it "serves", thus has a perverse incentive to encourage recidivism and dependence, REGARDLESS OF ACTUAL INTENT of those who started it.

While there are some concepts embodied in socialism that I approve of, the vast majority of those "solutions" are better served by free markets and competition. Real competition, not regulated competition.

As for the original topic, I doubt very much that we will reach a point where no one has to work to support themselves, but I can see a point where automation takes up so much of the brute labor that we as a species have much more free time and are able to trade upon our desired employment/ hobbies for our luxuries and contribute very little to the brute labor. Probably maintenance of the machines for most, and a great deal of creativity. The industrial revolution proved that greater productivity led to greater employment of those willing to learn and adapt, and utter disaster for those with a luddite or Malthusian mindset. Adapt or perish.

Further, we have a technological base that is capable of reaching the stars, now. It's not been implemented, but the hurdles are matters of will and employment, not new breakthroughs. New frontiers present new challenges and new opportunities. Given our unrestricted breeding cycle, population pressure WILL drive expansion in the not too distant future, once again obviating the problem proposed in the first post.

Giant Dragon, don't take this as an attack, as I think your posts are well presented and posit questions that need to be answered. You are treading ground that I have been researching for more than two decades, however, so I have a lot to say. But right now I have to go to work

I'm divided on the issue. I've lived in and traveled through about 2/3rds of the country.

I definitely do not see the United States of America as America. The people and the government are completely at odds, though most of the people don't seem to see it. the USA is a charter corporation by any rational definition. America, well, the word is a description of a place, and also a set of sometimes contradictory ideals.

Over the course of 45 years, I've watched those ideals go from largely being lived by the people (but never the government) to just about complete abdication of individuality in some places (like Western Pennsylvania and Southern California). 10 years ago, I would have said that leaving was the only option. That the experiment was too corrupted to continue, the people at large too stupefied to do a damn thing about it.  Now I'm not so sure. I keep running into people, especially younger people, who are just plain fed up with the antics of mordor The District of Columbia. And they are everywhere. Not a majority, yet, nor even enough of a mass to tip the scales, but it's a growing tide. I have high hopes for the ideals and idealism of the american people. But I can't see it getting better without getting a lot worse. I would hope that when it falls down (and it must, at this point. They've gone too far on too many things to ever right the ship), that it goes down more like the old USSR rather than what I see as more likely.

Revolution. People like to talk about revolution, but nobody sane wants it to happen. There is no guarantee that what comes out the other side will be worth living in. There is no chance of a revolution without massive bloodshed. And to be perfectly honest, I think that the USA would use it's nukes on it's peasants if they revolted. It isn't collectively long sighted enough to realize that doing so would be the end of it's viable existence. Nobody would trade with it ever again, and the USA doesn't have a monopoly on weapons of mass destruction. But they want that power...

So, as a father, I feel it fairly incumbent on me to physically leave before it gets that far. I don't currently have the resources to do it. But my wife and I have both come to that conclusion. But I at least hold out some hope that those who choose to stay might turn it around. Not a lot, but still...

Thanks!

In the not too distant future, I'll take you up on that. I have looked into setting up a pool for a little while now, because it interests me, and found it a bit more arcane than I'm ready for. I am not a programmer, but I am good at making programs talk to each other if I have sufficient information to do it. \

Pools in general seem to be kind of a jealously guarded "old boys club" on bitcointalk. If you ask or search for a setup guide, you usually find "if you don't know how to do it, you probably shouldn't do it". Which while it might be valid advice in many cases, is completely unhelpful. I can learn. I ran a multi line multitasking BBS under DOS 6.22 when told that it couldn't be done, and the only programming I did was extended batch language. Given resources, this Biomech can do some shit

However, I was mostly replying to the snarky comment. Thanks again for your non snarky reply!

Well, thanks!

I don't feel there is anything to be gained by beating people over the head, most of the time. That and I really want to see a REAL company succeed in the former USA. I'm also hoping to have the money in hand to just go buy one in a couple months Since the only other companies I'm really following are either in Sweden or Russia, that would be a lot easier in Philly.

I do have to take some exception to you refusing to do business with Miramyn. Yeah, he was being confrontive, but there are a great many reasons to operate behind a VPN that have no bearing on your business, and Paypal is adequate ID for tax purposes. You would have been immune to any problems. This won't stop me from doing business with you, once I see delivered products and raise the money I need, but it was probably unwise. Just sayin'.

That aside, the miner looks good, and Martin vouching for you goes a long way in my book. I followed him closely on the Klondike project, and even asked him some questions that were probably silly to a man of his technical caliber. He was cool to me and instrumental to getting the damn thing working, even if too late (which was Avalon's fault, mostly). I wish you well, and hope to be a customer.

I am rather dedicated. I'm better with words than with a placard in the streets (been there, done that), and I have been DEEPLY involved in politics.

What I found was that those who seek office should NEVER have any form of power over anyone but themselves, because they INTEND to use it for personal gain, or their personal vision of hell paradise. Being an anarchist at my age is not a reactionary or unreasoned position. It might be for the very young, a sort of diffuse teenage rebellion, but for those of us with some years under our belts, the philosophies of liberty are not abstracts or simply a topic for discussion amongst friends or internet fora.

Some basic truths about the United States of America. The corporation, not the nation of people.

One. The system cannot be reformed. Why? Because it works as it is intended. No, not the bullshit they sell you on the idiot box, the ACTUAL intent. Which is to gain as much power in the hands of a few "elites" as possible without fomenting a revolution. The "federalists" (imperialists, if we're to be honest and historically accurate) recalled very well the vast uncertainties and suffering caused by a full scale revolution. But unlike the "anti" federalists (who were ACTUALLY federalists rather than imperialists), the Federalists wanted a strong central government FOR THE PURPOSE of making the United States (plural, at the time) into one great empire. It took them a few decades and an otherwise unnecessary war, but they pulled it off. From 1865 onwards, nearly everything they have done has had the express purpose of expanding and consolidating the central authority. They have succeeded brilliantly. Alexander Hamilton would be immensely proud of the current government.

Two. Those who would rule want power like a drowning man wants air. I have personally met almost all of the current senate and about half of the current congress at earlier stages in their so-called careers. There is not one of them that I think this untrue of, except Dr. Ron Paul who I'm unsure of. That he is sincere in his beliefs, I have no doubt. But I'm not certain whether he has that lust for power. Unlike the whole rest of them, he was a gentleman to the staff. I give him points for that, and for much of his philosophy. But he sought power at the Imperial court, and he got it for many years. That makes him dangerous, even if his intentions are good. Which I am not certain of. The rest of them would throw their mother in front of a freight train for one more vote. And I AM certain of that.

Three. Voting is futile. You are given a very limited choice. You do not vote on law or regulation. You have no choice in that at all. The United States of America is not the Swiss Confederation. Citizens have privileges and duties, not rights. Nor real power. You can't even own the property you live on in any real sense. As Emma Goldman said, if voting could change anything, they would make it illegal. Contrary to the popular saw, voting TAKES AWAY your right to bitch, as you are supporting the system, regardless of the outcome.

I have much more, but that's enough to chew on for now.