LOL! Only one bitcoin clone... kinda defeats the purpose of cloning, dunnit? ROFLMAO!

I suspect that it would have about as much long term effect as them trying to "shut down" the internet. They are too dependent on the same technologies to actively suppress it. Sure, you COULD shut down the internet by jamming the airwaves from about 100 meters down to .0001 millimeters, but that would shut down ALL communications. And somebody would figure out how to jam the jamming...

Short term? The value of the Bitcoin would go psycho. And it just MIGHT trigger a long needed revolution.

*sigh*

"the rich hate/love {insert current bullshit}"

"the poor hate/love/are oppressed by {insert current bullshit}"

There is no monolithic entity called "billionaires". It's merely a statistic. People are people, as diverse and dichotomous at all levels. I've know poor folk who didn't give a shit about anyone and rich folk who were trying their damnedest to improve humanity and the living conditions of the many. And vice versa.

There are some very specific rich people who love bitcoin. There are some very specific rich people who hate it. There are a bunch of rich people who don't give a shit, and a bunch more that are interested but essentially neutral.

How a man got to be a millionaire/billionaire will tell you a lot more about where he stands on most any issue than the amount of his wealth. Those that went out and earned it, probably would like bitcoin. Those who inherited it and are living off their daddy probably don't care. Those that stole it (banksters/politicians and such) would very much hate bitcoin as it is potentially a threat to their rapine.

I think if the idea does seriously catch on (as it appears to be doing) then some of the alt-coins will do pretty well. Litecoin seems to be doing ok, and I like it's idea of being "sliver" to BTC's "gold". The artificial scarcity built into bitcoin is so low that at some point it WILL be the "gold" standard, even if it hasn't yet sorted itself out simply because there will be no more coins mined and the value, if it continues to be accepted, will become huge. That gives some room to the other players.

Someone in another thread noted that there was a need for a peer to peer gold exchange, and I think THAT is an idea very worth pursuing as well. Not sure how one would manage the repositories for it, though I have some ideas. But coupled with good encryption, such as that of Bitcoin, it could take off if the technical hurdles are solved.

As for the lesser coins, I think they're kind of fun, and a good place to make your mistakes whilst learning the ins and outs of this brave new monetary world. I doubt that most of them will survive, even though I have high hopes for a couple of them (for purely personal reasons, I like Feathercoin).

Bitcoin is NOT the first of this idea, it's just the first one to be successful. And that's a good start. I doubt it will be the last, but at the moment it is the one by which all others are judged.

As for Freicoin, the only way I'd mine that shit is for a quick turnaround. If I want money that constantly and consistently loses value, I'll stick with the USD. It's a proven long term loser. Why speculate on an upstart loser?

uh... This DID happen a hundred years ago. Almost exactly. This is just a symptom. Google Jekyll island.

Well put. As far as I am concerned, "Democracy" (deliberately capitalized) is just as much a religion as Catholocism, Islam, et. al. It requires belief in things that cannot be proven nor are properly subject to objective disproof, and it theorizes that all humans would run amok in the absence of a central authority, but that said central authority (being somehow superiour) will NOT run amok as long as those who would normally run amok have a say in putting them in power.

And that's just ONE political system. Perhaps the worst, but only one.

Interestingly, trying to actually understand religion (specifically Christianity) led me to be an atheist. Atheism requires a great deal of analysis to be anything but a knee-jerk reflex. That analysis also led me to anarchism.

I would argue further that it's counterfeit, as it's initial run was supposed to be backed in gold (read the earlier "legal tender" clauses) and then, by using the frog boiling method, it was stripped of all backing.

Me and Stefan Molyneux part ways significantly. He is often right, but he's too willing to paint with a wide brush. While I agree with his arguments, his tactics are rather... authoritarian for an alleged anarchist.

Not familiar with "defooing". I'll check it out later.

Bernanke says that inflation is less than 2%. Yet the cost of my staple foods have nearly doubled in two years. As I live on the edge of homelessness at all times, that level of inaccuracy is NOT useful in any way. Besides, Bernanke is a weak kneed toad. If the Fed is to regain any credibility they need another Volker, or at least a Greenspan. If you are going to play crazy games with the economy, you should be an INTELLIGENT traitor. Not just an academic follower.

I am essentially watching two companies right now. This is one of them, the other is Terrahash. KNC is doing it from scratch, which is likely to be a superiour product if they can pull it off. Terrahash is using Avalon chips and BKKcoins' Klondike design, which might get to market faster. If I had money, I'd pretty evenly divide my bets. As it stands, I have some people who are willing to invest when somebody has a viable product, so it'll be whoever gets there first. Which might be neither of the above, but they are the ones who seem the most likely candidates to me.

As to "post count", it's frankly an irrelevant metric. Having not been here long doesn't mean one is un/informed.

LOL!

And more seriously, we all know that nerds get their post high school revenge by accumulating a large amount of the gold...

gold is indeed money. Historically, that has been it's primary use. That it also has industrial uses is irrelevant.

That most countries no longer view it as money has a lot to do with deliberate disinformation by a group of talented liars and their less talented useful idiots. Prior to 1944, the whole world viewed gold as money. Prior to 1971, most of the world still did. In 1971 the link between fiat and gold was broken definitively, to allow for a free floating currency so that governments no longer had ANY restraint on their nefarious activities.

Bitcoin is more like Milton Friedman's idea of money (Peer to Peer coin even more so), where a computer or network controls the rate of inflation.

I think Bitcoin is useful and interesting, and yes, money. It is used as a medium of exchange beyond direct barter, it is portable, durable, and easily divisible without incurring total loss by division. It meets all the criteria except being a stable store of value, and frankly only precious metals have really stood up to that test. Even then, shakily. I think Bitcoin has the capability of doing so for the same reason: Scarcity. I suspect that it will be that most feared (by Keynesians) of monetary units, the deflationary model.

Deflation, contrary to Keynes, is generally a GOOD thing in a money. Sure, it makes prices go down over time, but that's not because the VALUE of goods goes down, it's because the value of the currency goes UP! So if the unit value changes upward, causing a decline in prices, this is good for all involved except accountants who tend to view things only from the POV of their books.

I am reminded yet again of the "useful idiots" who decried Ford paying their workers five dollars a week. They were arguing on imposing a minimum wage, and using a historical example completely out of context. So, here's the context. Ford was paying almost TWICE the going labor rate for skilled workers, and that payment was in a currency backed by gold. Specifically, they were being paid five dwt a week. Given today's price of gold, that equals out to 346.25 a week. And gold just took a hit vs. the dollar. At minimum wage, excluding tax (which in the time frame we're discussing didn't exist on such low incomes) you would make 290 a week right now. Since even at minimum wage the combined leeching is in the neighborhood of 15% (prior to refunds, if any) and Ford's workers paid AT WORST 1%, the comparison falls the hell apart. Gold deflated significantly vs. the dollar, now that it is free floating and inflationary. Yet it's PURCHASING ABILITY is about the same. A model T cost, at it's lowest, $300.00, or 15 oz. troy of gold. Today, that is $20,775. That will in fact buy you several different cars all significantly superiour to the Model T.

Fiat hasn't fared well against deflationary currency, and if you've been paying attention, the "owners" of the fiat (central banks and their pet politicians) have been investing quietly but heavily in gold. Why? Because they KNOW that the ponzi scheme known as Fiat currency inflation has to end, and that it ends badly for those who hold nothing else.

Where bitcoin will figure into all of this is hard to tell, but it's biggest uptick was in the wake of the central banks of Cypress, with the IMF's hearty approval, confiscating the accumulated fiat wealth of practically everyone on the island. From the time the writing was on the wall to the time the trigger was pulled, a lot of people bought bitcoins as an escape from the dirty trick. A lot of you on this forum benefited from that, but so did those Cyprians who managed to save a bit of their treasure. It certainly gained the bitcoin some legitimacy AS MONEY.

I think the cryptocurrency idea is a good one. Flawed in some ways, but all monetary systems are. By decentralizing the notes, you take away a lot of the ability to abuse it. By being deflationary, it's perceived value is likely to increase over time. It's not a good substitute for precious metals for long term valuation, but it's a good substitute for centralized fiat.

I have a lot more questions than answers at the moment, so I'll end this here for now.

edited my post to link to the relevant facts.

Also, I love your avatar! That was my second computer, back in the fog of time. TRS-80's kicked ass before the PC took over.

agreed.

somehow I don't think they'll be putting on the brakes any time soon. That would break their paradigm.

Alright! Another Rush fan! I haven't seen them in over ten years , but in the mid eighties I got to meet all of them when they played Arco Arena in Sacramento. First time I saw them was in 1980, when I was just a puppy. Watching Geddy play bass, multiple keyboards, and sing all at once is just mind boggling. And then you get to watching Neil...

I just realized that it's been longer since I've been to a Rush concert than I've been sober. Life is not going well. Gotta fix...

And then they use your tax dollars to bust in your door, steal your dope, kidnap you, and ruin your life. The thought returns.

uhm... Bretton Woods IS a vacation spot, if you have enough power. Then again, I assume you are referring to the so-called Bretton Woods Agreement, which inflated the international redemption of the dollar to 35 dollars to a troy ounce of gold, in addition to a number of other nefarious things.

And Bretton Woods was tame and helpful by comparison to the Nixon era decoupling of the dollar from ANY commodity backing. Stable prices/currency indeed! Ron Paul is not nearly radical enough. Abolishing the federal reserve is a good idea, but publicly executing it's directors at the same time is a better idea.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Washington_Hotel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Monetary_and_Financial_Conference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods,_New_Hampshire

A guy I used to hang out with did do a full on 127 device chain, back when USB1.1 first came out, and it worked. Bogged the system something fierce, though. With the faster throughput on 2.0 and 3.0, I think it would probably be better. However, it's probably safer and EASIER to just keep the numbers down and use multiple hosts. A usb controller isn't exactly expensive. Even this cheap ass acer I'm using has two of 'em.

No, I wasn't, and I thank you for the tip!