Actually, he has education in engineering design. I don't know what he did for a living in UK, cuz I never asked. He's not an engineer.

He has already stated in public (and privately to me) that this has gone on longer than he anticipated or planned for, and that he intends to ask KnC for compensation. He also really wants to work for them, for personal reasons.

He also told me that he really likes Stockholm, so maybe he's planning to stay there even if KnC doesn't work out for him (pure speculation on my part). He seems to be pretty good with his money, so he's probably living on savings like a smart man.

Judging by the tone of his posts, he's probably frustrated as hell with the whole situation, just like those of you still waiting. I can be pretty neutral cuz I got no skin in the game. I am somewhat emotionally invested, as this was the company I wanted to succeed. Their silence troubles me as well, and I think they are abusing the privilege with Alex. But we are not there, and we don't know what he has arranged with them or been offered. Give the man a break, he's obviously trying.

Shit. I was like 6 months old or so

So we've shifted from evolution to bio genesis?

Damn, I'm prescient.

Still. If we are to apply these probablilities to the formation of a single cell, would not the same formula apply to the formation of a god? Only by several orders of magnitude greater? Which is more improbable, Magic, or randomness?

Further, even if we just extrapolate from THIS universe, when compared to the vast number of stars those numbers are not so high. We live on a minor planet on the fringe of a small galaxy, and it's teeming with life. Using the same sort of probabilities, that would make it LIKELY that there are many such worlds, UNLESS you believe we are "special". Which is what religion ultimately comes down to, a belief in being the "select few" instead of simply being part of natural phenomena. I'm just not that arrogant.

as to bio genesis vs. abiogenesis, the possibility of it was demonstrated in 2009. There are some videos on youtube relating to this, but I'm too lazy to go search them out right now. just put abiogenesis in the search window.

Oh, and one more thing. When engaging in conversation or debate regarding science, terminology is very important. You committed what I like to call the "religious fallacy" in stating that evolution is "just a theory". So is gravity.

In colloquial english, theory essentially means an idea or a series of them. It's definition is somewhat loose. In science, what is colloquially known as a theory is called a postulate. as in "I think this is what happens and how". A Theory, on the other hand, is very specific. It is still called theory because EVERYTHING in science is subject to new data and further attempts at disproof. A scientific theory is the best explanation of a given set of facts. It is used to make predictions and set up experiments. If a scientist calls something a theory, and he's honest, he is referring to our best understanding of OBSERVABLE FACTS and the predictions that can be made from that explanation. Everything is a theory. You likely learned this in pre algebra, but if it was taught as poorly as it was in my scholastic career, I don't blame you for not remembering it.

I've actually seen quite a bit of that particular debate among evolutionary biologists. It just doesn't apparently get a lot of press. The mechanics of evolution are hotly debated. The fact of it is only debated by the uninformed or the religious, as far as I can tell.

I've watched several conferences (0ne was on TED not that long ago) and the actual mechanics of evolution are more a series of hypotheses than actual theory. I myself, and I'm not an evolutionary biologist, find a lot of problems with current theory as to HOW it works. That it works is at this point beyond proven.

Well, given that Megabigpower is beginning to ship again, that would imply that Bitfury just made a whole bunch more chips. I'm sure they give themselves a bit of lead time before they sell "aftermarket' devices, so they probably were building miners while C-scape and cohorts were waiting for chips. Bifury clearly are not fools.

Of course, they could also have had a bit of money invested in KnC. Problems or not, they have shipped a fair number of units.

I'm not acting. You are. You have to, because your religion demands a level of hypocrisy that leads to an unacceptable rate of depression and suicide. Understand, I was a Christian minister at one time. My hatred for that religion knows NO bounds, but I don't hate Christians. Or "god" either. I've simply come to understand that IF there is a god, it's clearly not that one. It doesn't make sense, form top to bottom. You admit in your own post that Eve seeking knowledge was something YOU would do, and you believe in YHVH and it's avatar.

Further, Sin. What precisely is sin? The root word from which it's derived simply means "missing the mark" or "missing the target". It's larger ramifications ONLY matter to those who believe. Frankly, modern Christianity holds on to the doctrine of hell because fear is the only "weapon" left in their arsenal. They cannot anymore win against knowledge, as just about every argument they put forth is EASILY disproven except the existence of a deity and bio-genesis.Note that last one. Not Evolution, Bio-genesis. Evolution, which I'm sure you or another Christian in this thread will soon attack, is the most tested theory there ever was. It is incompatible with the book of Genesis, and Christian doctrine. If the one is true, the other is false. And the one IS demonstrably true. Contrary to Christian claims, evolutionary theory has nothing to do with the ORIGIN of life, thus does not by itself preclude a deity. It precludes YOUR deity, because we have irrefutable evidence that the Genesis account is just plain wrong from everything after "In the beginning..."

So, what, because Eve decided knowledge was a good idea, all the animals who were "named" a bit earlier divided themselves into predator and prey, virii were introduced, germs started to exist, plants altered their functions to defend or aggress... all because ONE woman had the audacity to learn something?\

Please. You Christians really need to learn something of the physical world before putting your "gospel" in front of even moderately educated people. This is not the dark ages, or even the fifties. This is the age of the internet. The "forbidden fruit" is at EVERYONE's fingertips. Learn new tricks, or your religion will fade into the dustbin of history like the thousands before it.

Dammit, you had to go there. Therein lies the crux of the matter. Pun intended. God, who won't or can't show itself, creates an avatar and has it destroyed, briefly, so that "we" are all "saved" from "sin". Convenient, eh?

Try that in life. Kill somebody, then blame it all on them. You will hang. Further, all of the "justifications" in the world do not forgive the very IDEA that a being that is mortal deserves ETERNAL damnation, regardless of what they may have done to other mortals. Also, as an anarchist, I'm in favor of compensatory justice, not punitive. Punishment only works to CORRECT a behaviour. Punishment that never ends is evidence of sadism, and nothing else.

Rassah, it is rare that I disagree with you, so don't take it personally. Science doesn't work by proving things true, it works by lack of disproof. The idea of the scientific method is to test a hypothesis to destruction. If it can't be destroyed, it becomes part of the theory. It is always open, no matter how well "established", to new data and further attempts at disproof.

However, absence of evidence does imply evidence of absence. It just doesn't prove it. Which is why the common Christian comeback has no good answer, as they are asking us to prove or disprove a negative. Which IS a logical fallacy

I have to take severe exception to this. I have been an atheist for some time now, and reading, then extrapolating, studying, searching and HOPING it was true (because I had wasted half my life believing). I actually encourage everyone who call themselves Christian to read the bible, straight through, and see if they still believe. I can't recall who said it, but a rather prominent atheist once said that the bible is the best argument for atheism that exists. I don't agree with that, as there are far more logical reasons to disbelieve in deities, but it's still been my experience that the VAST MAJORITY of atheists whom I have interacted with (and it's been rather a lot) are far better versed in the bible than the majority of Christians. The main exceptions I have seen to this are people from nations or places where Christianity holds little sway. Even there, they seem to be more knowledgeable than most Christians.

My take is simple, though not simply arrived at. If there is a god, and it wants to be worshiped, and it is omnipotent, (all Christian claims, here) Then it would have the power AND MOTIVATION to make this obvious. We would not need a collection of old books voted upon by political committees in order to validate the existence and will of such a being. Thus, if there is a god, based on the observations of the world and visible universe around us, I have to say that it doesn't want to be worshiped. The more likely solution is that it simply doesn't exist, but the jury is out on that.

I could go to great lengths in exposing the multiple mistakes and fallacies contained within the Christian bible and it's derivatives, but at this time I don't see the point. It's all well documented, and there is no swaying a "true believer" with facts. A thing I have come to realize after a great deal of personal pain. For psychological reasons, it is very difficult to relinquish belief, even when it has been proven to be false. It was for me. Losing my religion was personally devastating until I figured out who I really am, and managed to initiate a new paradigm. I'm a pretty tough person, so if it was that hard for me, I can understand why people cling to it. But that doesn't make it correct.

Nah. Russians do it cheaper and more reliably. Their shit is built to perform, NASA's is built to impress newsies.

Also, don't forget about Sir Richard's outfit. Could change the whole game. I'm told his wife likes diamonds.

hard to put into proper words. I am a bit more awake now For the most part, I agree with you. I'm trying to convey the idea that I love the land of my birth and the major concepts that led to it breaking away from Britain. I hate what it has become. I also love the wide open spaces and mountains and coasts. The people? Not so much. I have met people from all over the world, and the average US citizen seems to be blithely ignorant of the world around them to a greater degree than most other people.

Of course that could be a false impression, since I met most of those people IN the USA, but with the advent of computer based communication my impression seems to be strengthened.

I love america (deliberately not capitalized), but I fucking LOATHE the United States. The two don't equate. A couple centuries back, some guys with various motives got together and threw off the yoke of an oppressive empire. So far, so good. It took them less than a decade to draft a document that guaranteed a return to tyranny, and "four score and seven" years to fight a war that made even the few roadblocks in that document irrelevant.

Even so, the spirit of liberty and self sufficiency remained.

Then, the descendants of the traitorous mob started this new idea called "making the world safe for democracy" as if that were some noble goal. Our "leaders" started or participated in multiple foreign wars, killed the currency, lied about it, and then stole the gold.

Even so, the spirit of liberty and self sufficiency remained, though it was coming under fire on a daily basis.

Then, the descendants of the descendants of the traitorous mob stopped caring about whether or not a thing was legal, if they could get away with it. They escalated wars in Korea and Vietnam and Grenada and Iraq and Afghanistan and many other places. Called most of them "police actions" as if the nations they were incinerating were errant petty criminals within their own purview rather than independent nations. Largely, they got away with it.

Meanwhile, on the home front, they used every overt and covert tactic they could dream up to demonize the idea of self sufficiency and pervert the meaning of liberty.

It worked. Americans, who live under a police state reminiscent of Soviet Russia or the early stages of Nazi Germany, think they are free, while kowtowing to every whim of anyone with something looking like "authority". The idea of self sufficiency is under constant attack, and most people buy into this thing called "society" without analysls.

I was born in 1968. Outside of the big cities, america was mostly still a free nation then. I saw it begin to erode in the late seventies (The erosion was already advanced, I just finally saw it then). Now, just shy of 45 years after my birth, I cannot recognize this place as anything even resembling my country of birth. You now need official permission to breathe, let alone do anything useful.

Yet when I was a kid, the police and the officials in government would not DARE speak to average citizens with the open contempt they now display. It would have cost them too dearly. Now, they have reduced us to this. It's pathetic, and it's getting worse daily. They cavort high on the hog on the backs of all of us, and most of us LIKE IT.

I am damn near destitute, or I would have taken my family and fled some years ago. I have had many friends go on vacation to Europe or parts of Asia, and never come home. They found something far better, and went with it. I am jealous. I missed the opportunity.

There will come a point when the empire falls apart from within. The point of no return was probably passed in 1971, when the Nixon administration approved the default on american currency.  There is no saving this mess sort of it's complete dissolution, and that day will come. Unfortunately, it will come with little warning and no plan. I do not look forward to this, as at the rate it's going, I'll still be here.

I can't answer for everyone, obviously, but to me, the fun of the hardware and exploration.

It's also a long term bet on the transactional side of BTC. Even though I know that I will not see positive ROI in a short timeframe, I still want to do it. Only reason I haven't is that I don't yet have the spare cash.

This thread gets a new novella added from the time I go to work to the time I get home every day.

Hell,it's at least entertaining.

I'd have to say you both have valid points. MHS, you are right in your assessment, and Mota, your observation. Problem is you're arguing two seperate issues and conflating them.

If nobody will take a risk on a new product, then there will be no new product. If nobody will take a risk on a new company, there will be government intervention on behalf of the bankers no new companies.

Either way, you assume some risk, and sometimes it bites you.

Granted, I have no skin in this game, just a lot of interest. But for whatever it may be worth, I expected their rollout to be far worse. And this is the horse I would have backed.

I think they should hire a serious PR staff, and like those "large" companies, keep the engineers AWAY from microphones, forums, etc. Engineers build shit. Most of them can't sell shit unless the market is on fire, and they tend to overestimate their abilities. No, I'm not saying they lie, I'm saying that they get enthused and fail to account for Mr. Murphy or Feed Justin Case. Justin's a good guy when he ain't hungry, and Murphy is the devil's nightmare. There is good reason why most managers are NOT tech people. They are able to abstract themselves from the project and see the wide world a bit clearer. KnC needs some of those people. I think their development team is nothing short of spectacular, but they have operated their business like rank amateurs. They are clearly very smart people. I hope they learn from this and fix the glaring errors going forward. I suspect they will.

Also, never forget that the established companies screw the pooch too. Anybody remember the IBM PS/2?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thiTa8wfZsc

Who cares if it's off topic FUD, I'm throwing cannonballs!

(sorry, couldn't resist. Or at least didn't.)

OUCH!

On topic, KnC has some delivery and hardware hiccups. Given their development cycle, I expected it to be worse. I think that if you were ordering right now, they would probably deliver your units on time. The first lot, they did far better than I expected, and a bit worse than they were hoping for. So far, as near as I can tell, they have shipped around 700 units, most a week or so behind schedule.

By comparison, as of a few weeks ago BFL was still several months behind their initial pre-orders. I really don't think the two companies compare well. KnC seems legit, but have let their pride in initial accomplishment blind them to some of the more mundane realities of doing business. Understandable, and frustrating for their early adopters, but still a good company. BFL has dropped the ball, kicked the can, obfuscated, delayed, and often outright lied for most of their history. On integrity alone, I would not do business with them. I would only buy a BFL rig if it were through a third party in person, with the rig in hand. From everything I've heard, despite their Kirby Vacuum style of marketing, they do have good hardware once they get around to building it.

My .002 BTC

Wouldn't surprise me at all. I lived in Reno for a while just out of high school. While everyone knows it as Nevada's other gambling mecca, it's not as well known just how much industry is there. In 1990 when I left, they were busily rebuilding their entire telephony net to handle the load. As of about 98, they had gone fully fibre optic. Power is relatively cheap there as well. It would be a good place to set up. Also doesn't hurt that Nevada and the city of Reno both have a huge amount of tax incentives for new businesses, no personal income tax and really low corporate taxes. It's a good place to do business.

Besides that, it's the kind of place where if you can't have fun, you simply don't know how