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1041
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Economy / Exchanges / Re: BTC Exchange with Paypal Withdrawal
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on: April 22, 2016, 10:42:54 AM
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BTC-e do withdrawals to Visa. I've never used it but their fees tend to be pretty high.
where is BTC-e located? what's the company name? are they financial licensed as they should be?  |
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1042
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I got hacked , All my Bitcoin and Litecoin lost
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on: April 22, 2016, 10:39:52 AM
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So, another company just got hacked. I'm really sorry to hear that, but this incident will remind us about how important it is to not just believe people you just met on internet.
...and how important it is to treat Bitcoin and any other e-currencies as they are. a tool to make cash but to not store in them. once you hit a "number", you have to withdraw fast to your bank(s). it doesn't matter what security measures you take. the HTTP is not safe. |
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1043
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 22, 2016, 10:33:54 AM
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Where these just folks on LocalBitcoin trading BTC peer to peer?!
That'd be fucking nuts if you need some lic bullshit just to do peer to peer trades on LocalBitcoin... the USA is going bat shit crazy.
How could anyone support that? (OP)
Just got off the phone with Jay from Arkansas Securities Department in regards to selling my personal Bitcoins peer to peer using LocalBitcoins or friend to friend. The guy I spoke to said it would be totally fine to sell my Bitcoins to individuals as long as: 1. I wasn't brokering deals between individuals. AKA Party A uses me to link up with Party B. This can be using a site or doing it manually. 2. I wasn't selling Bitcoins marketed as an investment tool. That's what I expected and it makes sense. That's what an exchange does. If you're not doing that, you're not running an exchange right but if you do that, you have to respect the rules. how many exchangers are respecting them? |
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1045
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 08:45:00 PM
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Where these just folks on LocalBitcoin trading BTC peer to peer?!
That'd be fucking nuts if you need some lic bullshit just to do peer to peer trades on LocalBitcoin... the USA is going bat shit crazy.
How could anyone support that? (OP)
Just got off the phone with Jay from Arkansas Securities Department in regards to selling my personal Bitcoins peer to peer using LocalBitcoins or friend to friend. The guy I spoke to said it would be totally fine to sell my Bitcoins to individuals as long as: 1. I wasn't brokering deals between individuals. AKA Party A uses me to link up with Party B. This can be using a site or doing it manually. 2. I wasn't selling Bitcoins marketed as an investment tool. That's what I expected and it makes sense. Now, ask yourself if, for example , Kraken follows under point 1 or point 2. They accept clients from Arkansas |
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1046
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 08:24:40 PM
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You should'a sold your pro lawyerin' to that pair of financial moguls, maybe they wouldn't " have plead guilty to running an unlicensed bitcoin exchange" & pushin' Xanax If they were legitimately selling prescription drugs while selling btc, then they are probably morons. It may even be possible they they were actually drug dealers, who were just using bitcoin for payments, and thus the government tacked on "unlicensed exchange" as well. I would need to see the complaint to know what the case is actually about. But ultimately, they are guilty of being an unlicensed money transmitter if their state defines them as that. My only argument throughout this thread is that not all jurisdictions are the same. Unlike some people think. In theory, if these two people sold btc within a friendly state, they would be free men right now. Sure. If you're a Somali exchange, you don't have to follow US law. But you do have to be licensed in US to do business with US nationals. No different from being a licensed Somali doctor. You can write Addy scripts to your Somali patients, but not in US. Gotta be US-licensed to write for US nationals on US soil. TL;DR: being legal somewhere != being legal in US This is exactly my point ! It's so true! You do have to be MSB licensed in US to do exchanges with US nationals. |
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1047
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I got hacked , All my Bitcoin and Litecoin lost
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on: April 21, 2016, 08:17:30 PM
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the funds will surely go to a Bitcoin launderer website and done...
this is not the beauty of anything. it can happen to any of you and you won't think the same. 300K lost....
the normal people read and will read these kind of stories and they will not touch Bitcoin ever. of course, the hackers and morons will not be affected because they will always find a new e-currency to deal with... the affected ones will be the honest BTC users.
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1048
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 08:09:12 PM
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You should'a sold your pro lawyerin' to that pair of financial moguls, maybe they wouldn't " have plead guilty to running an unlicensed bitcoin exchange" & pushin' Xanax If they were legitimately selling prescription drugs while selling btc, then they are probably morons. It may even be possible they they were actually drug dealers, who were just using bitcoin for payments, and thus the government tacked on "unlicensed exchange" as well. I would need to see the complaint to know what the case is actually about. But ultimately, they are guilty of being an unlicensed money transmitter if their state defines them as that. My only argument throughout this thread is that not all jurisdictions are the same. Unlike some people think. In theory, if these two people sold btc within a friendly state, they would be free men right now. . So, Louisiana requires a financial license for Bitcoin Please read these : http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/louisiana_bitcoin.htmlhttps://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/mtgoxs-dwolla-account-seized-1368760437 Also, please name one State that doesn't require a license for bitcoin(e-currency) exchanges. |
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1049
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 07:57:13 PM
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All the countries have laws regarding to financial transactions and they require a financial license for the Bitcoin exchangers. It doesn't matter if you are in USA or China.
If Bitcoin isn't defined as money in their country, exactly why would they need such a license? Bitcoin is still in the 'grey zone' for a lot of places. ... if however they are just swapping bitcoin for altcoins(no fiat at all). then and only then do they not need a licence. Franky just so you know, according to the FinCEN docs that Mayax are providing, if you interpret them as he is, then bitcoin for altcoin buy/sells or vice versa also requires a money transmission license. Definitions of User, Exchanger, and Administrator
This guidance refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms "user," "exchanger," and "administrator."6 A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services.7 An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. (Emphasis Added) So, if they wanted to argue it, they could interpret it to say things like Poloniex or Shapeshift are also money transmitters. shapeshift does not touch the dollar.. nor is it even based in USA. this american law does not apply to shapeshift. though poloniex does not touch fiat, it however does 'reside' in USA so they would need some legal clarification. however. "virtual currencies" as noted in your documents are electronic forms of fiat. the laws around blockchain currencies are still not defined. these virtual currencies are what paypal, western union use(USD) and so defining if blockchain currencies are in that remit, still is a grey area. but overall i can easily see poloniex being on a possible US hitlist. but if you were to try to think that a MSB was just someone that transmitted any type of currency of value (bitcoin included) then every bitcoin user would need a licence. im sorry but in prison the inmates do not need a MSB licence for trading cigarettes (their currency of value) im sorry but in a relationship, women do not need a MSB licence for trading sexual favours (their currency) for getting their spouses to do things around the house. im sorry but businesses do not need a MSB licence for trading fiat for their staffs labour. as time is a thing of value too. a good lawyer could rip apart the argument of what is a virtual currency, what is a money substitute etc. remember.. a paypal USD is not the same as a bank note or a dollar metal coin (you cannot pay a court fine using paypal) Currency vs. Virtual Currency
FinCEN's regulations define currency (also referred to as "real" currency) as "the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender and that [ii] circulates and [iii] is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance."3 In contrast to real currency, "virtual" currency is a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency. In particular, virtual currency does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction. This guidance addresses "convertible" virtual currency. This type of virtual currency either has an equivalent value in real currency, or acts as a substitute for real currency. 1BTC does not act as a substitute for dollar. there is nothing to prove that 1btc is 1 dollar or that bitcoin should be treated as only being used as a substitute for a dollar. (think of it as if bitcoin was a starbucks coffee.. changing value every year and measured in different vale and different international currencies). bitcoin is a currency, but not money. its an asset currency basically so its still not clear. however its best to be cautious Yes, are under this law. They are saying: "We are a US-based cryptocurrency exchange". More than that, USA reserves the right to go after any company who is doing businesses with US citizens if they don't have financial license in US. See the example with Mtgox and Dwolla. US gov seized the Mt gox funds from Dwolla even MT Gox was registered in Japan because MtGox was doing exchanges with US citizens. Yes, this is the law Paypal is a payment service provider based on real currency while the exchangers are virtual currency exchanges. Both of these businesses follow to the same MSB law. Virtual money is a commodity(like gold) and you need a financial license to make transactions between fiat and ANY e-currency (like Bitcoin). |
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1050
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 06:35:59 PM
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Please see footnote 1 of the bottom of your link page: 1 FinCEN is issuing this guidance under its authority to administer the Bank Secrecy Act. See Treasury Order 180-01 (March 24, 2003). This guidance explains only how FinCEN characterizes certain activities involving virtual currencies under the Bank Secrecy Act and FinCEN regulations. It should not be interpreted as a statement by FinCEN about the extent to which those activities comport with other federal or state statutes, rules, regulations, or orders. (Emphasis Added) And see: 12As our response is not in the form of an administrative ruling, the substance of this letter should not be considered determinative in any state or federal investigation, litigation, grand jury proceeding, or proceeding before any other governmental body. yes but all the States from America are following what FINCEN is saying(guidance). do a search for unlicensed Bitcoin money transmitter: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/mtgoxs-dwolla-account-seized-1368760437https://coincenter.org/2015/04/what-is-money-transmission-and-why-does-it-matter/The laws are very clear. You didn;t answer why Circle got a EU financial license after they financial licenses in all US? They don't care about money, right?They wanted to throw them away for some useless papers. NO, they want to make serious business and they want to wake up on their pillow not in a jail |
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1051
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 06:30:47 PM
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If you accept cash in person, AML in does not apply. AML has to do with bank deposits with a single purchase.
its a little more complicated then that. try having more then$10k in a suitcase when you go to an airport or at a border check. but the whole bank deposit thing is mainly due to the ease of noticing and finding people doing it. not so much a difference of the law. just the survellance capabilities in short if ur accepting and giving out FIAT as part of a business that swaps fiat for other things. then expect to have to explain yourself it does not matter if its for legit purposes or not. it does not matter if its a bankers cheque or a bank note or a wire transfer the law is the same. the only difference is the level of surveillance needed to find out who moved what to where, and for what reason. so if you dont want the headaches, dont touch fiat. good point and true. if the exchangers will not touch fiat then they will have almost no business. the point is that they do not want to play "fair" and to get the financial license required by the country where they are registered. once licensed, they have to respect strict rules, they cannot disappear overnight. it's so funny. they want to be treated like serious businesses, like shit corporations but when it's about regulations, they run |
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1054
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I got hacked , All my Bitcoin and Litecoin lost
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on: April 21, 2016, 05:29:41 PM
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I am sorry to here that. Now be smart right now and start using anti virus and anti malware so that you can prevent hacker to hack your accounts in your laptop or you can prevent cookies to monitor by hackers.. always use secured vpn its helps to me to protect my identity..
Also use kaspersky internet security updated so you are far in any viruses..
would you care about kaspersky internet security after you have lost almost 300K? |
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1055
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 05:21:29 PM
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First of all, the article is about two individuals who are light weights ($10k in undeclared cash over 3 years). These two people most likely used something like Localbitcoins to facilitate their trades, and if that is true, then this story is not comparable to the above listed "unlicensed exchangers" who are doing $100k+ in transactions/profits/fees per day within their own dedicated site. Second, the term "unlicensed exchange" only applies in jurisdictions in which there are regulations. Those jurisdictions are actually very few and being licensed or not does not assure your bitcoins are safe. Third, Mayax is a known supporter of world regulation over bitcoin and constantly argues for principals that are anti-bitcoin. Let's see : https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/coin-mx-bitcoin-exchange-operators-arrested/http://www.wired.com/2015/01/bitcoin-exchange-operator-sentenced-4-years-silk-road-transactionsThese are not from Localbitcoins. "unlicensed exchange" only applies in jurisdictions in which there are regulations. CORRECT. All the countries have regulations regarding to that. It doesn't have to be something special for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is considered a virtual currency/e-currency and there are strict laws toward to this. Why do you think Circle got license in EU after USA ? Do you think they don't care about the money they spent for that? I assure you it was 500-700K Euros. Good pocket money, right? But they spent it for a...license. Why? USA, UE(and not only), China/HK, Australia, Canada, etc. All have laws for e-currency exchangers (even BVI, Belize, Bahamas). |
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1056
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 05:06:29 PM
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All the countries have laws regarding to financial transactions and they require a financial license for the Bitcoin exchangers. It doesn't matter if you are in USA or China.
If Bitcoin isn't defined as money in their country, exactly why would they need such a license? Bitcoin is still in the 'grey zone' for a lot of places. it's not about Bitcoin. It's about that an exchanger is doing financial transactions. They are receiving money from customers for doing a FINANCIAL service. You need license for a such thing in all the countries. There is NO grey zone. Example: you need a financial license to trade gold even it's virtual gold. Gold is not money... "In their country" where? Kraken is based in USA and USA requests license. Okcoin, BTC China are based in Singapore and China which are requesting financial licenses for that, Bitfinex is based in Hong Kong and they claim to be registered in British Virgin Islands which requires a financial license for these kind of services.... |
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1057
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Unlicensed Exchangers
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on: April 21, 2016, 04:52:48 PM
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closed by who? if it's not by their local jurisdiction, they cannot be closed america if you think so, they are out of the law of america
All the countries have laws regarding to financial transactions and they require a financial license for the Bitcoin exchangers. It doesn't matter if you are in USA or China. |
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1058
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I got hacked , All my Bitcoin and Litecoin lost
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on: April 21, 2016, 04:46:10 PM
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That's why Bitcoin cannot be something serious. It won't become a currency, it won't become mainstream shit. The average people are too exposed and these people are 99,9999%. There is not protection, nothing.
In normal circumstances, you would get ALL the money back from a bank but unfortunately Bitcoin is not a bank, it's not regulated. It's a jungle full of scams, full of hackers, full of black market. The normal "Joe" is victim.
You cannot make any chargeback, you cannot make anything. You simply lost the funds. That's it. I know it's HARD to get over but you must; others lost millions in the same way; you lost aprox 300k. This is life. Someday you earn, other day you lose; up and down...
You have to learn something from that. Never keep too much in ANY e-currency; no wallet, no cold shit wallet, no nothing ! Move the money to banks once you hit a "number". And if you have too many, invest them in a local business, real estate. It's not an option to store too much money in a bank too. The interests are too low now.
BUT Bitcoin or any other e-currency are not safe at all.
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1060
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Economy / Exchanges / Re: So , Gemini exchange was a failure ?
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on: April 20, 2016, 06:15:01 PM
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It's very, very expensive to maintain a financial license. You need a lot of money monthly for salaries,accountant, due diligence shit, taxes, compliance, rent, lobby expenses, advertising and many, many other things. It's a legit business and the legit businesses in the financial field are costing A LOT Coinbase is doing the same. They have licences in almost all USA...much more expensive than Gemini. . IMO, they will go bankrupt if nobody will pump money in them(no stupids to "invest" in a black hole from where they will never see any money back). You need massive volume to make it work. Which is why Coinbase is so upset about the blocksize limits - they cap the amount BTC is used and are therefore a threat to their business model. on the other hand if you, as exchanger, wants the banks to allow you to use their services and to have the peace of the mind that thyt won't block your account, you need to be financial licensed. there is the legal aspect too. the police can raid your place anyting if you run a financial business and you don't have a license. almost all the countries have laws regarding to that. in USA and Europe, there many people in jail because of this thing. it's not a joke anymore and you cannot say "it won't happen to me" to be financial licensed you need to respect A LOT of terms, laws and you have many obligations(to pay the taxes, to have external audit, to report transactions, to make REAL due diligence not the joke which is made now , etc) and you need MONEY; tons of cash for lawyes, papers and so on. if you want to be anonymous like BTC-e is( there are many others), you cannot develop a serious financial business and you cannot grow. Yes, you can make money but not "SERIOS" money and you always have the fear that your money can be locked by banks, gov also, if you have financial license, you are requested to ask many documents from your clients which can be found as an annoying thing by those who are using BTC. More than that, BTC is mainly used by the black market and these people are not so happy to provide you these infos. In short, you won't have cash flow. What can you do? You must find stupid investors in order to pump money in your business. This, can't last too long because any investor(even is stupid) will want the money back + profit and...guess what?! you won't be able to provide that. This business(once you are regulated) will eat money monthly. you cannot run it from your home anymore, you cannot run it alone or with a single partner. You need to hire people, you need to pay salaries, to rent an office, to pay taxes, to pay, pay, pay...and in end you will see that it's not worth it just to be a BTC exchanger.... |
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