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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 383589 times)
Cranky4u
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June 27, 2013, 06:39:12 AM
 #2001

The scenarios below are called a "race to the bottom". This is seen in natural resources with a limited supply, e.g. not renewables. Famous races to the bottom include the nOrth Sea crabbing industry, old hard wood logging, coal and petroleum. As the resource bcomes scarcer more people pile in as the price goes higher. The increased rate of extraction of goods increases the rate of depletion and the price rises due to scarcity. This death spiral goes on until the bootom is hit and the entire sector, plus the industry they feed, dies a horrible death throw as they seek bail outs.

Sorry Floridabear, your math is off.  At $0.15 kw/h power cost, a Single is still profitable to a worthwhile degree even at 900 million difficulty.  It's going to be a bit of time before we see 900 million difficulty, from 19 million now.

You really have to define "a bit of time." I defined it clearly in my post, and my math is not off based on the assumptions I posted. Please don't accuse me of being wrong when I provide all of the assumptions I used for the calculations, unless you've done the math with those assumptions yourself (and you can prove I did them wrong).

My math is correct according to the assumptions I gave and I stand by it. A 50 GH single will only ever produce about 28 BTC ($2800) if delivered in September and my assumptions prove correct.

If you want to argue about 18% increases every retarget being too pessimistic from Sept '13 to March '14 (when all currently available BFL devices become unprofitable at $0.11/KWh) , that's fine, but don't just say "your math is off." However, I don't think 18% is at all unreasonable. When GPUs were rolling out, we saw difficulty go from 19 to 9000 in about 5 months. And that's an order of magnitude greater than the change we're talking about (19M to 900M). If ASICs come on line at that rate, we'll be at 9 billion by February (except that none are profitable there, so it won't happen). But I don't think 900M is unreasonable by Jan 1. Granted we will see some leveling off after that as less efficient ASICs become unprofitable. But if 28 nm products are real and rolling out, they will quickly obsolete everything less efficient. This is a pretty inevitable path we're going down.

My entire point is that delays are extremely costly going forward. Progress is relentless.

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June 27, 2013, 08:09:46 AM
 #2002

Thanks for the heads up!
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June 27, 2013, 08:35:08 AM
 #2003

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.
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June 27, 2013, 09:19:31 AM
 #2004

I have been waiting months for my jalepeno. Even if they do ship it by the time i get it 5GH/s wont even be worth it. They should offer to upgrade units for free every month they are delayed. Of course, this wont happen
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June 27, 2013, 10:06:34 AM
 #2005

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.

If you ask me Selling Block Eruptors for 300 bucks make out to be a bigger scam.  They are basically FPGAs only tinier.  what i don't get the most is why some people here show what appears to be a true hatred towards BFL which is crazy.  Don't like it, don't buy one!  There are like a million other people who can "DIY groupbuy your Avalon chips and assmemble your boards together into kits" but I don't want to deal with all that.  Do they do things sloppy? "yes"  do they try hard to deliver the best looking "most turnkey" product?  "yes"  Sure there's KNC, there's Terrahash, but I only see rendered drawings,  I've seen multiple photos of all the different types of BFL units in testing and in the wild and on ebay and on bitmit.net  but they were NOT preorders.  They had maybe a 180% cost premium or higher over stock price.  Only other ASIC hardware on the market is...yep you said it...block eruptors, fpgas which cost like 10x for the same hashpower and blades which are like 10k for a mere 10gh/s so no...(and of course Avalons that are known to be inferior watt for watt and will easily set you back 20k [something the 75% don't have or aren't willing to risk for the BTC economy]) 

Stop complaining...find or better yet...build a better ASIC, deliver the units....then start bashing BFL after you can DELIVER where they couldn't....

yea that's right you CAN'T.

for the record...all groupbuys are just baby bfls: preorder with escrow, ppl waiting on chips and assembly of boards with chips, ppl waiting for enough buyers in the groupbuy to acquire the chips...all the bfl bottlenecks that preorders face. 

Now I do question if this will be such a lost cause that I get my unit for 4 months and they try to "hook" me into a 2.0 asic 500TH miner for 3k and 50PH for 15k preorder AGAIN to disrupt difficulty to make the current asic obsolete. 

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June 27, 2013, 10:30:05 AM
 #2006

oh man Smiley

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June 27, 2013, 03:11:29 PM
 #2007

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.

If you ask me Selling Block Eruptors for 300 bucks make out to be a bigger scam.  They are basically FPGAs only tinier.  what i don't get the most is why some people here show what appears to be a true hatred towards BFL which is crazy.  Don't like it, don't buy one!  There are like a million other people who can "DIY groupbuy your Avalon chips and assmemble your boards together into kits" but I don't want to deal with all that.  Do they do things sloppy? "yes"  do they try hard to deliver the best looking "most turnkey" product?  "yes"  Sure there's KNC, there's Terrahash, but I only see rendered drawings,  I've seen multiple photos of all the different types of BFL units in testing and in the wild and on ebay and on bitmit.net  but they were NOT preorders.  They had maybe a 180% cost premium or higher over stock price.  Only other ASIC hardware on the market is...yep you said it...block eruptors, fpgas which cost like 10x for the same hashpower and blades which are like 10k for a mere 10gh/s so no...(and of course Avalons that are known to be inferior watt for watt and will easily set you back 20k [something the 75% don't have or aren't willing to risk for the BTC economy]) 

Stop complaining...find or better yet...build a better ASIC, deliver the units....then start bashing BFL after you can DELIVER where they couldn't....

yea that's right you CAN'T.

for the record...all groupbuys are just baby bfls: preorder with escrow, ppl waiting on chips and assembly of boards with chips, ppl waiting for enough buyers in the groupbuy to acquire the chips...all the bfl bottlenecks that preorders face. 

Now I do question if this will be such a lost cause that I get my unit for 4 months and they try to "hook" me into a 2.0 asic 500TH miner for 3k and 50PH for 15k preorder AGAIN to disrupt difficulty to make the current asic obsolete. 

You need to know how the scam works to understand BFL as a scammer. I have posted many times proving this. Yes yo are correct in your statements however BFL is a scam.
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June 27, 2013, 07:15:04 PM
 #2008

If you ask me Selling Block Eruptors for 300 bucks make out to be a bigger scam.

It's not a scam. People were willing to pay the price for it and they got what they paid for within a few days.

Even the price drop doesn't make it a scam. Early adopters always pay a higher price than later buyers (except in the case of Bitcoin of course where it's the reverse).

When some new console comes out it has a big price tag. After a few months the price decreases and after a few years you can get it for half the price the early adopters payed.
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June 27, 2013, 10:01:44 PM
 #2009

If you ask me Selling Block Eruptors for 300 bucks make out to be a bigger scam.  They are basically FPGAs only tinier.  what i don't get the most is why some people here show what appears to be a true hatred towards BFL which is crazy.  Don't like it, don't buy one!

By the same "reasoning," I could say if you don't like the thread about BFL being a scam, don't post in it.

I don't like scammers.  If you love scammers, start your own thread about how scamming is great.
tacoman71
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June 27, 2013, 11:07:45 PM
 #2010

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.
That's like saying KFC is a scam because they mistakenly didn't give me all the chicken I ordered!

Feeling generous? Like my post? Leave a tip at BTC: 1NZJ8cceqEiKDZGAJged2vNGCyfFMUEYPt
tacoman71
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June 27, 2013, 11:11:12 PM
 #2011

scary...now shipping. does anyone know how to see an udated list?
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June 27, 2013, 11:24:05 PM
 #2012

bfl lulz  Wink
Habeler876
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June 27, 2013, 11:53:45 PM
 #2013

i wish i thought to take preorders and then pay for production by using customer products!

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June 28, 2013, 12:23:32 AM
 #2014

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.
That's like saying KFC is a scam because they mistakenly didn't give me all the chicken I ordered!

Yep, a year after your KFC order they delivered a load of months-old long-rotted chicken.

Stupid-ass motherfucker.
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June 28, 2013, 12:36:27 AM
 #2015

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.
That's like saying KFC is a scam because they mistakenly didn't give me all the chicken I ordered!

Yep, a year after your KFC order they delivered a load of months-old long-rotted chicken.

Stupid-ass motherfucker.

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June 28, 2013, 01:19:15 AM
 #2016

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.
That's like saying KFC is a scam because they mistakenly didn't give me all the chicken I ordered!

If it takes them a year to deliver then YEA!
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June 28, 2013, 01:26:09 AM
 #2017

I really did not understand neither why they would not mine themselves. I think that one can only expect delivery when it is more profitable to sell the hardware than to mine... And still the total hashing power is not enough for that to happen... or the BTC price has to decrease... Sad
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June 28, 2013, 03:12:49 AM
 #2018

I've spent $2500 USD on hardware from BFL and I'm still trusting that they will deliver.
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June 28, 2013, 03:16:24 AM
 #2019

Aren't they delivering it slowly?
Doesn't Jody keep a half-assed blog?

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June 28, 2013, 03:53:48 AM
 #2020

do they allow refunds?  I bought a Kncminer and have no interest in my BFL SC 30 anymore.
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