I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.

[Biomech]

It's called "Advice" just like you get on TV about your stock investments.

Take it or leave it.

I don't have to engage in an argument, my position is being underlined every day.

Am I happy its going down? No.

Did I prepare for it going down: Yes

Well put.

I'm on both sides of this argument. I think that long term, digital currencies are the wave of monetary future. Fiat currencies always fail, due to the simple fact that central banks can inflate at will, and frequently do so to cover their own tracks or attempt to mitigate against the stupidity of governments. It never works in the long term, but it does "wonders" in the short term. Digital currencies, by contrast, inflate at a very controlled and largely unmanipulable manner. This makes them a better vehicle for finance in many ways. Also, their quick settlement period will make them attractive to financiers and businesses alike, once third party processing becomes prevalent.

And yes, I do realize that removes the "trustless" paradigm for day to day purchases, but that is necessary if BTC or other digital currencies are to break into the mainstream. The average purchaser does not give a damn that his VISA card actually doesn't settle for 14 days, but he does give a damn that his bitcoin transaction takes an hour to be confirmed. With something like a VISA for BTC, that would change, as settlements up the line are cheaper and faster.

[1714114024]

1714114024

[1714114024]

1714114024

[1714114024]

1714114024

[picolo]

It's called "Advice" just like you get on TV about your stock investments.

Take it or leave it.

I don't have to engage in an argument, my position is being underlined every day.

Am I happy its going down? No.

Did I prepare for it going down: Yes

Well put.

I'm on both sides of this argument. I think that long term, digital currencies are the wave of monetary future. Fiat currencies always fail, due to the simple fact that central banks can inflate at will, and frequently do so to cover their own tracks or attempt to mitigate against the stupidity of governments. It never works in the long term, but it does "wonders" in the short term. Digital currencies, by contrast, inflate at a very controlled and largely unmanipulable manner. This makes them a better vehicle for finance in many ways. Also, their quick settlement period will make them attractive to financiers and businesses alike, once third party processing becomes prevalent.

And yes, I do realize that removes the "trustless" paradigm for day to day purchases, but that is necessary if BTC or other digital currencies are to break into the mainstream. The average purchaser does not give a damn that his VISA card actually doesn't settle for 14 days, but he does give a damn that his bitcoin transaction takes an hour to be confirmed. With something like a VISA for BTC, that would change, as settlements up the line are cheaper and faster.

Fiat currencies fail and finance the sociopaths and wars. Bitcoin is strong and useful. But fiat have their powerful points and Bitcoin has weaknesses because it's attacked and new.

To be a millionnaire in Bitcoin at 152$ (low point on bitstamp Today) : 6579 BTC but it could be only 658 BTC sometime in 2015

[Biomech]

It's called "Advice" just like you get on TV about your stock investments.

Take it or leave it.

I don't have to engage in an argument, my position is being underlined every day.

Am I happy its going down? No.

Did I prepare for it going down: Yes

Well put.

I'm on both sides of this argument. I think that long term, digital currencies are the wave of monetary future. Fiat currencies always fail, due to the simple fact that central banks can inflate at will, and frequently do so to cover their own tracks or attempt to mitigate against the stupidity of governments. It never works in the long term, but it does "wonders" in the short term. Digital currencies, by contrast, inflate at a very controlled and largely unmanipulable manner. This makes them a better vehicle for finance in many ways. Also, their quick settlement period will make them attractive to financiers and businesses alike, once third party processing becomes prevalent.

And yes, I do realize that removes the "trustless" paradigm for day to day purchases, but that is necessary if BTC or other digital currencies are to break into the mainstream. The average purchaser does not give a damn that his VISA card actually doesn't settle for 14 days, but he does give a damn that his bitcoin transaction takes an hour to be confirmed. With something like a VISA for BTC, that would change, as settlements up the line are cheaper and faster.

Fiat currencies fail and finance the sociopaths and wars. Bitcoin is strong and useful. But fiat have their powerful points and Bitcoin has weaknesses because it's attacked and new.

To be a millionnaire in Bitcoin at 152$ (low point on bitstamp Today) : 6579 BTC but it could be only 658 BTC sometime in 2015

Make no mistake here, the sociopaths will have their wars, regardless of the currency. But a BTC standard, as did gold, will restrict the sheer scale of their destructiveness.

[JayJuanGee]

Very amusing.

What you fail to notice is the fact that BTC is in a slow descent, with no bottom in sight.

Let's talk through the scenario, BTC keeps dropping (down 49% since July 3rd) that's more than 10% a month.

In response to that what is happening?

People spending their BTC? NO!

People selling their BTC? YES!

People continuing to hoard BTC waiting for it to come back? YES!

People mining any great quantity of BTC on their own? NO!

People cloud mining making tiny BTC profits? YES!

These things above never change and if they don't then BTC will be $150 in 4 months, then it becomes cost prohibitive for anyone but the huge farms like KNC to mine.

By June BTC will be down in the double digits ($85ish) and no one will be interested in it any longer.

You heard it here.

Seems like you've lost your drive & hunger for Bitcoin....what you don't understand is Bitcoin isn't just about how much it's worth. It's a concept which at the moment is suceeding maybe not on a huge level but if someone told you about this new concept 6 years ago and said within this amount of time it would reach highs of $1000 you would of laughed.
All it takes at the moment is a whale to delve into Bitcoin and spend a huge amount which will raise the value and bring more attention from media which means more people will be interested in Bitcoin....or we have a major hack again or something similar of nature which would again bring media attention which would be seen by millions & again even though it's bad news many more people will of heard of Bitcoin and will search up on it.
You might be right it dropping down to double digits...but your not right on people not buying...a huge lot of people are buying Bitcoin. What I think is happening is a lot of people are using the payment processor bitpay which sells their Bitcoin for fiat as soon as they recieve it which decreases the value of Bitcoin. If people stop using bitpay & similar companies then we should see a rise again. Everyone thought bitpay was a great company but in actual facts it's damagining the Bitcoin value & community in general. There are a number of other major factors like more sell orders than buy order but thats obvious & talked about far more often than the point I brought up.

Pissedoff:   I agree with some of your assessment, but NOT all of it.

Personally, I believe what is causing the price to go down is manipulation, and there are some that want to continue to push the prices of BTC down so that they can continue to accumulate and at some point (maybe 1 month from NOW or maybe 6 months or possibly longer), there will be attempts to manipulate in the opposite (upwards direction)... One large whale would be within his/her power to manipulate the price upwards into the $3k to $5k territory, b/c was the price starts to go upward, there will be other whales ready and willing to jump on board.

Really, bitpay and similar are good for bitcoin because they cause liquidation opportunities - which people need to have in order to have additional confidence in BTC when prices go to the next upward level.   Surely, if people are NOW using bitpay and similar to liquidate and they are NOT replacing their coins, then surely, you are correct that those services are merely being used to sell coins... but really, I doubt that those services of bitpay and similar are what really is causing downward price pressures... you can watch the market and see that the downward pressure comes from the purposeful and strategic attempts to dump large quantities of coins on exchanges, and while that conduct remains profitable, that exchange dumping conduct is going to continue.

Additionally, some of these dumpers are accumulating coins on the sly.. so that they will have plenty of coins when the time comes for the upward momentum.

You don't have to agree with any of it, you just have to keep watching and realize I was right then, and I am right now.

BTC=$80 by June

Its down $100 since the last time I told you, in 2 months it will be down another $100

You do NOT know what the fuck you are talking about, and you are just guessing.   and you happened to have guessed somewhat correctly in the past regarding some kind of downward price pressures on bitcoin.. so what.... NOW, your goal is to come back and assert that you "told you so" to whoever the fuck will listen to you... and then attempt to assert that you have some kind of knowledge about the future through your continued guessing.

Yes I just keep "guessing" right every single time.

Bitcoin and the current state it is in, is Psychology 101.


If you have a job and you make 10 dollars a week you will spend a percentage of that to food, clothing, gas, car etc. Next week you make another 10 dollars you do the same thing all over again. If the next week you lose your job and you don't get 10 dollars then your spending tends to change, you hunker down and hold what you have.

Replace the word "job" with "bit coin miner"
Replace the word "dollar" with Bitcoin"
above

No one can afford to spend $500 on a miner to create $505 in Bitcoin in 9 months.

The great gold rush is over, every one held on for the next spike, but the next spike isn't coming because Bitcoin production is down a zillion percent and the cost to produce it is up a zillion percent.

Everyone is holding, no one is spending, the Bitcoin economy is circling the drain.

Prove me wrong and quote any event that you see taking place that could possibly turn it around.

I am at a loss.

That's fine if you want to just keep bragging about how smart you are and trying to engagin in an argument, merely because there seems to be a bear trend at the moment. 

I have NO fucking idea how long this bear trend is going to last, and I never claimed to be able to predict short term price directions in BTC, even though in the long term I remain optimistic that the market will turn around and we will return to a bull market in BTC. 

So go around with your cock sureness and be smug... good for you.... that the downtrend continues and you are happy about this (whether your prediction or NOT).

It's called "Advice" just like you get on TV about your stock investments.

Take it or leave it.

I don't have to engage in an argument, my position is being underlined every day.

Am I happy its going down? No.

Did I prepare for it going down: Yes

You seem to be a fucking smug retard.  You are attempting to frame this situation in such way as if you are right and I am wrong (or people like me).  You have NO fucking idea about my financial position besides reading through my posts, and even then you would only get a fragmented picture of such.  You do NOT know my cashflow, my other investments, my purpose for being in bitcoin, my various timelines, my views about the future probabilities of bitcoin, my risk tolerance and a large number of other factors.  You are merely going through some smug post-hoc "i told you so" diatribe in order to attempt to make yourself feel good or something.  Get a life.

Regarding Advice:  I certainly am neither asking for advice or giving advice (except maybe if someone specifically asks me for advice, and even then I tend NOT to give advice but instead allow people to come to their own conclusions).  So I don't know where you get off with some kind of belief that anyone is seeking your advice, either me or anyone  else reading these threads.


Regarding preparations for BTC going down... I am glad that you prepared, and for your information, I am of the impression that I have taken a variety of adequate preparations also.... surely hindsight is 20/20, but I do NOT feel bad about my past choices because I remain of the opinion that I make what I consider decent and reasonable choices based on options then available to me including taking into account a large number of my various personal financial considerations, as described in my first paragraph above.

[joeventura]

Very amusing.

What you fail to notice is the fact that BTC is in a slow descent, with no bottom in sight.

Let's talk through the scenario, BTC keeps dropping (down 49% since July 3rd) that's more than 10% a month.

In response to that what is happening?

People spending their BTC? NO!

People selling their BTC? YES!

People continuing to hoard BTC waiting for it to come back? YES!

People mining any great quantity of BTC on their own? NO!

People cloud mining making tiny BTC profits? YES!

These things above never change and if they don't then BTC will be $150 in 4 months, then it becomes cost prohibitive for anyone but the huge farms like KNC to mine.

By June BTC will be down in the double digits ($85ish) and no one will be interested in it any longer.

You heard it here.

Seems like you've lost your drive & hunger for Bitcoin....what you don't understand is Bitcoin isn't just about how much it's worth. It's a concept which at the moment is suceeding maybe not on a huge level but if someone told you about this new concept 6 years ago and said within this amount of time it would reach highs of $1000 you would of laughed.
All it takes at the moment is a whale to delve into Bitcoin and spend a huge amount which will raise the value and bring more attention from media which means more people will be interested in Bitcoin....or we have a major hack again or something similar of nature which would again bring media attention which would be seen by millions & again even though it's bad news many more people will of heard of Bitcoin and will search up on it.
You might be right it dropping down to double digits...but your not right on people not buying...a huge lot of people are buying Bitcoin. What I think is happening is a lot of people are using the payment processor bitpay which sells their Bitcoin for fiat as soon as they recieve it which decreases the value of Bitcoin. If people stop using bitpay & similar companies then we should see a rise again. Everyone thought bitpay was a great company but in actual facts it's damagining the Bitcoin value & community in general. There are a number of other major factors like more sell orders than buy order but thats obvious & talked about far more often than the point I brought up.

Pissedoff:   I agree with some of your assessment, but NOT all of it.

Personally, I believe what is causing the price to go down is manipulation, and there are some that want to continue to push the prices of BTC down so that they can continue to accumulate and at some point (maybe 1 month from NOW or maybe 6 months or possibly longer), there will be attempts to manipulate in the opposite (upwards direction)... One large whale would be within his/her power to manipulate the price upwards into the $3k to $5k territory, b/c was the price starts to go upward, there will be other whales ready and willing to jump on board.

Really, bitpay and similar are good for bitcoin because they cause liquidation opportunities - which people need to have in order to have additional confidence in BTC when prices go to the next upward level.   Surely, if people are NOW using bitpay and similar to liquidate and they are NOT replacing their coins, then surely, you are correct that those services are merely being used to sell coins... but really, I doubt that those services of bitpay and similar are what really is causing downward price pressures... you can watch the market and see that the downward pressure comes from the purposeful and strategic attempts to dump large quantities of coins on exchanges, and while that conduct remains profitable, that exchange dumping conduct is going to continue.

Additionally, some of these dumpers are accumulating coins on the sly.. so that they will have plenty of coins when the time comes for the upward momentum.

You don't have to agree with any of it, you just have to keep watching and realize I was right then, and I am right now.

BTC=$80 by June

Its down $100 since the last time I told you, in 2 months it will be down another $100

You do NOT know what the fuck you are talking about, and you are just guessing.   and you happened to have guessed somewhat correctly in the past regarding some kind of downward price pressures on bitcoin.. so what.... NOW, your goal is to come back and assert that you "told you so" to whoever the fuck will listen to you... and then attempt to assert that you have some kind of knowledge about the future through your continued guessing.

Yes I just keep "guessing" right every single time.

Bitcoin and the current state it is in, is Psychology 101.


If you have a job and you make 10 dollars a week you will spend a percentage of that to food, clothing, gas, car etc. Next week you make another 10 dollars you do the same thing all over again. If the next week you lose your job and you don't get 10 dollars then your spending tends to change, you hunker down and hold what you have.

Replace the word "job" with "bit coin miner"
Replace the word "dollar" with Bitcoin"
above

No one can afford to spend $500 on a miner to create $505 in Bitcoin in 9 months.

The great gold rush is over, every one held on for the next spike, but the next spike isn't coming because Bitcoin production is down a zillion percent and the cost to produce it is up a zillion percent.

Everyone is holding, no one is spending, the Bitcoin economy is circling the drain.

Prove me wrong and quote any event that you see taking place that could possibly turn it around.

I am at a loss.

That's fine if you want to just keep bragging about how smart you are and trying to engagin in an argument, merely because there seems to be a bear trend at the moment. 

I have NO fucking idea how long this bear trend is going to last, and I never claimed to be able to predict short term price directions in BTC, even though in the long term I remain optimistic that the market will turn around and we will return to a bull market in BTC. 

So go around with your cock sureness and be smug... good for you.... that the downtrend continues and you are happy about this (whether your prediction or NOT).

It's called "Advice" just like you get on TV about your stock investments.

Take it or leave it.

I don't have to engage in an argument, my position is being underlined every day.

Am I happy its going down? No.

Did I prepare for it going down: Yes

You seem to be a fucking smug retard.  You are attempting to frame this situation in such way as if you are right and I am wrong (or people like me).  You have NO fucking idea about my financial position besides reading through my posts, and even then you would only get a fragmented picture of such.  You do NOT know my cashflow, my other investments, my purpose for being in bitcoin, my various timelines, my views about the future probabilities of bitcoin, my risk tolerance and a large number of other factors.  You are merely going through some smug post-hoc "i told you so" diatribe in order to attempt to make yourself feel good or something.  Get a life.

Regarding Advice:  I certainly am neither asking for advice or giving advice (except maybe if someone specifically asks me for advice, and even then I tend NOT to give advice but instead allow people to come to their own conclusions).  So I don't know where you get off with some kind of belief that anyone is seeking your advice, either me or anyone  else reading these threads.


Regarding preparations for BTC going down... I am glad that you prepared, and for your information, I am of the impression that I have taken a variety of adequate preparations also.... surely hindsight is 20/20, but I do NOT feel bad about my past choices because I remain of the opinion that I make what I consider decent and reasonable choices based on options then available to me including taking into account a large number of my various personal financial considerations, as described in my first paragraph above.

I am doing no such thing,
I don't care two rats balls about you or your financial position,
See that little button under my name that says "ignore" ? click it and spare me.

Are you asking for anything you see or read on this site? No. But you still read it. Again click ignore.

BTC is $205

[flipstyle]

It's called "Advice" just like you get on TV about your stock investments.

Take it or leave it.

I don't have to engage in an argument, my position is being underlined every day.

Am I happy its going down? No.

Did I prepare for it going down: Yes

Well put.

I'm on both sides of this argument. I think that long term, digital currencies are the wave of monetary future. Fiat currencies always fail, due to the simple fact that central banks can inflate at will, and frequently do so to cover their own tracks or attempt to mitigate against the stupidity of governments. It never works in the long term, but it does "wonders" in the short term. Digital currencies, by contrast, inflate at a very controlled and largely unmanipulable manner. This makes them a better vehicle for finance in many ways. Also, their quick settlement period will make them attractive to financiers and businesses alike, once third party processing becomes prevalent.

And yes, I do realize that removes the "trustless" paradigm for day to day purchases, but that is necessary if BTC or other digital currencies are to break into the mainstream. The average purchaser does not give a damn that his VISA card actually doesn't settle for 14 days, but he does give a damn that his bitcoin transaction takes an hour to be confirmed. With something like a VISA for BTC, that would change, as settlements up the line are cheaper and faster.

Fundamentally, you are correct.

But the main point all bitcoiners seem to be in grand dilliusion with...is thinking somehow BITCOIN will become the currency of the future.

No.  The crypto technology in itself may be the future, but anyone thinking any government would just let a blockchain ran by faceless miners (who also reap the fees) become the world currency, are seriously sniffing the paint fumes.  The government has, can, and always will control money.

So yes, the crypto technology itself may have a bright future.  But rest assured, the government will be the one creating their own (most notably, the US government), which would mean all alts including bitcoin would either take a huge hit or eventually fade away into obscurity.

[Flashman]

Well that doesn't sound like the privately held thoughts of a free thinking individual.

[marcus_of_augustus]

The government has, can, and always will control money.

wrong on all counts ... smacks a lot of stockholm syndrome also.

[flipstyle]

The government has, can, and always will control money.

wrong on all counts ... smacks a lot of stockholm syndrome also.

Counter me instead of making yourself look foolish with a baseless reply.

Since when has the u.s. government not been in control of the monetary system?

And no pre-industrial philosophical replies either.

I'll wait.

[semaforo]

The government has, can, and always will control money.

wrong on all counts ... smacks a lot of stockholm syndrome also.

Counter me instead of making yourself look foolish with a baseless reply.

Since when has the u.s. government not been in control of the monetary system?

And no pre-industrial philosophical replies either.

I'll wait.

    Your irrational belief that US hegemony will endure in spite of massive trade deficit, threats to petrodollar, and growing inflationary and deflationary pressure, the costs of maintaining a huge military that is increasingly being rendered obsolete by the fast paced changing nature of conflict, suggests an emotional attachment to the same entity that has been feeding you lies in order to enslave and control you in exchange for a few gadgets and a false sense of security that leave you with a gaping hole in your soul which you unsuccessfully try to fill by insulting people on internet forums, which is similar to the feeling of affection that captives sometimes develop for their captors, which might explain why you feel an emotional need to defend the established financial and monetary infrastructure, for however miserable you may be, you are haunted by the terror that the unknown and undefined alternative might just be worse.

Yes, the animals in the zoo are generally better fed than those in the wild, but they can be very neurotic, irritable, and aggressive.

   By the way, you are chronically misusing the word 'shill.'

[BitChick]

The government has, can, and always will control money.

wrong on all counts ... smacks a lot of stockholm syndrome also.

Counter me instead of making yourself look foolish with a baseless reply.

Since when has the u.s. government not been in control of the monetary system?

And no pre-industrial philosophical replies either.

I'll wait.

    Your irrational belief that US hegemony will endure in spite of massive trade deficit, threats to petrodollar, and growing inflationary and deflationary pressure, the costs of maintaining a huge military that is increasingly being rendered obsolete by the fast paced changing nature of conflict, suggests an emotional attachment to the same entity that has been feeding you lies in order to enslave and control you in exchange for a few gadgets and a false sense of security that leave you with a gaping hole in your soul which you unsuccessfully try to fill by insulting people on internet forums, which is similar to the feeling of affection that captives sometimes develop for their captors, which might explain why you feel an emotional need to defend the established financial and monetary infrastructure, for however miserable you may be, you are haunted by the terror that the unknown and undefined alternative might just be worse.

Yes, the animals in the zoo are generally better fed than those in the wild, but they can be very neurotic, irritable, and aggressive.

   By the way, you are chronically misusing the word 'shill.'

I cannot wax poetic as well as this.

But I will add that I have come to the conclusion that most Americans put way too much trust in our government and the power of the USD in general.  

No one expected the depression to happen when it did.  Economic destruction can come in days if not minutes.  

To put our trust solely in the US and in any government or singular monetary system is not wise as far as I am concerned.  This goes for just putting it all into BTC either.  Diversification is always a great strategy.

[BayAreaCoins]

I noticed two big billboard here in the Bay today.

One between Fremont and San Jose.

One on the 101 two exits before the Bay Bridge.

Paypal stuff

[flipstyle]

The government has, can, and always will control money.

wrong on all counts ... smacks a lot of stockholm syndrome also.

Counter me instead of making yourself look foolish with a baseless reply.

Since when has the u.s. government not been in control of the monetary system?

And no pre-industrial philosophical replies either.

I'll wait.

    Your irrational belief that US hegemony will endure in spite of massive trade deficit, threats to petrodollar, and growing inflationary and deflationary pressure, the costs of maintaining a huge military that is increasingly being rendered obsolete by the fast paced changing nature of conflict, suggests an emotional attachment to the same entity that has been feeding you lies in order to enslave and control you in exchange for a few gadgets and a false sense of security that leave you with a gaping hole in your soul which you unsuccessfully try to fill by insulting people on internet forums, which is similar to the feeling of affection that captives sometimes develop for their captors, which might explain why you feel an emotional need to defend the established financial and monetary infrastructure, for however miserable you may be, you are haunted by the terror that the unknown and undefined alternative might just be worse.

Yes, the animals in the zoo are generally better fed than those in the wild, but they can be very neurotic, irritable, and aggressive.

   By the way, you are chronically misusing the word 'shill.'

Yadda, yadda, yadda...they put GMO's in our cornflakes and the Boston Marathon was a inside job with paid actors!!

You are so erudite, it's almost unbelievable.


Sorry.  You're still in dillusion.  Somehow trying to place my attachment to reality to me being some 'pro government ultra right wing drone' was cute, though.  I'll give you that.

Then again, trying to get any sort of legitimate counter-argument out of bitcoin shills is like pulling teeth.  Actually, extracting molars is probably a lot easier...and a ton more feasible.

Keep living your life in the dark room paranoid about how the 'Man' is out to get you, and how your uber secure buttcoin investment will shield you free you from the shackles that bind you from an anarchist happiness on your secluded farm in the middle of Nof*ckingwhereVille.    I'm sure your messiah money mined by 18 year old scammers in Yugoslavia will soon become the 'world currency' and every government from here to Siberia will just have to bow down and accept it.

'Lets overthrow dem gubernmints n spend these here data coinz!! Hold on real quick though, I have to use this tainted devils money to buy it first' lolol.

[marcus_of_augustus]

The government has, can, and always will control money.

wrong on all counts ... smacks a lot of stockholm syndrome also.

Counter me instead of making yourself look foolish with a baseless reply.

Since when has the u.s. government not been in control of the monetary system?

And no pre-industrial philosophical replies either.

I'll wait.

    Your irrational belief that US hegemony will endure in spite of massive trade deficit, threats to petrodollar, and growing inflationary and deflationary pressure, the costs of maintaining a huge military that is increasingly being rendered obsolete by the fast paced changing nature of conflict, suggests an emotional attachment to the same entity that has been feeding you lies in order to enslave and control you in exchange for a few gadgets and a false sense of security that leave you with a gaping hole in your soul which you unsuccessfully try to fill by insulting people on internet forums, which is similar to the feeling of affection that captives sometimes develop for their captors, which might explain why you feel an emotional need to defend the established financial and monetary infrastructure, for however miserable you may be, you are haunted by the terror that the unknown and undefined alternative might just be worse.

Yes, the animals in the zoo are generally better fed than those in the wild, but they can be very neurotic, irritable, and aggressive.

   By the way, you are chronically misusing the word 'shill.'

Yadda, yadda, yadda...they put GMO's in our cornflakes and the Boston Marathon was a inside job with paid actors!!

You are so erudite, it's almost unbelievable.


Sorry.  You're still in dillusion.  Somehow trying to place my attachment to reality to me being some 'pro government ultra right wing drone' was cute, though.  I'll give you that.

Then again, trying to get any sort of legitimate counter-argument out of bitcoin shills is like pulling teeth.  Actually, extracting molars is probably a lot easier...and a ton more feasible.

Keep living your life in the dark room paranoid about how the 'Man' is out to get you, and how your uber secure buttcoin investment will shield you free you from the shackles that bind you from an anarchist happiness on your secluded farm in the middle of Nof*ckingwhereVille.    I'm sure your messiah money mined by 18 year old scammers in Yugoslavia will soon become the 'world currency' and every government from here to Siberia will just have to bow down and accept it.

'Lets overthrow dem gubernmints n spend these here data coinz!! Hold on real quick though, I have to use this tainted devils money to buy it first' lolol.

wow, you seem really hate-filled and angry. Is it a prerequisite for shilling conformity to the cult of death money?

You seem really threatened by outside-the-box thinking and experiments in technologies aimed towards advancing the wealth of humanity. Why is that have you wondered?

[flipstyle]

The government has, can, and always will control money.

wrong on all counts ... smacks a lot of stockholm syndrome also.

Counter me instead of making yourself look foolish with a baseless reply.

Since when has the u.s. government not been in control of the monetary system?

And no pre-industrial philosophical replies either.

I'll wait.

    Your irrational belief that US hegemony will endure in spite of massive trade deficit, threats to petrodollar, and growing inflationary and deflationary pressure, the costs of maintaining a huge military that is increasingly being rendered obsolete by the fast paced changing nature of conflict, suggests an emotional attachment to the same entity that has been feeding you lies in order to enslave and control you in exchange for a few gadgets and a false sense of security that leave you with a gaping hole in your soul which you unsuccessfully try to fill by insulting people on internet forums, which is similar to the feeling of affection that captives sometimes develop for their captors, which might explain why you feel an emotional need to defend the established financial and monetary infrastructure, for however miserable you may be, you are haunted by the terror that the unknown and undefined alternative might just be worse.

Yes, the animals in the zoo are generally better fed than those in the wild, but they can be very neurotic, irritable, and aggressive.

   By the way, you are chronically misusing the word 'shill.'

Yadda, yadda, yadda...they put GMO's in our cornflakes and the Boston Marathon was a inside job with paid actors!!

You are so erudite, it's almost unbelievable.


Sorry.  You're still in dillusion.  Somehow trying to place my attachment to reality to me being some 'pro government ultra right wing drone' was cute, though.  I'll give you that.

Then again, trying to get any sort of legitimate counter-argument out of bitcoin shills is like pulling teeth.  Actually, extracting molars is probably a lot easier...and a ton more feasible.

Keep living your life in the dark room paranoid about how the 'Man' is out to get you, and how your uber secure buttcoin investment will shield you free you from the shackles that bind you from an anarchist happiness on your secluded farm in the middle of Nof*ckingwhereVille.    I'm sure your messiah money mined by 18 year old scammers in Yugoslavia will soon become the 'world currency' and every government from here to Siberia will just have to bow down and accept it.

'Lets overthrow dem gubernmints n spend these here data coinz!! Hold on real quick though, I have to use this tainted devils money to buy it first' lolol.

wow, you seem really hate-filled and angry. Is it a prerequisite for shilling conformity to the cult of death money?

You seem really threatened by outside-the-box thinking and experiments in technologies aimed towards advancing the wealth of humanity. Why is that have you wondered?

I think people on this forum just have a really hard time actually reading before they reply.

I've stated NUMEROUS times the concept of crypto currency is borderline brilliant in and of itself.  It has its holes, but then again everything does.

HOWEVER.  People not rooted in reality (aka shills) seem to never want to argue the true points of bitcoin and its pitfalls, while only acknowledging and hyping it's positives, completely dismissing any sound feedback (and ironically, labeling any voices of reason as 'trolls' or 'bears.')  

Crypto currency may be here to stay.  But due to its open source nature, and the fact the US government can and always will control the monetary flow of the universe...they will be the one creating their own crypto currency and pathing the way for the future.   Yes, I know, the mere prospect of this gets every libertarian's blood pressure skyrocketing. 

Does anyone with a moderately acceptable IQ really think the government will just stand there and let some transparent currency subject to 51% attack and double spending, and maintained and issued by faceless individuals worldwide....rule the world?

This isn't a hollywood flick.

[semaforo]

    The phrase "the US government can and always will control the monetary flow of the universe"


Labelling this as a fact is a better refutation of your credibility than anything I can come up with. You could look up the monetary history of the Roman empire for an example of how a centralized authority disintegrates when the cost of expansion outweighs the returns. It's called entropy, I think it's the second law of thermodynamics. While you may worship the US as an eternal deity, I assure you, it is not. In fact, it is based roughly on the same legislative and administrative structure of empires that have waxed and waned in the past. It's a functional model, but also one that is doomed to failure.

      

    

[marcus_of_augustus]

very little left to argue with ranting, raving, blustering blowhards ....  probably best if you go back in the archives, anything new you might think you have to add has already been covered. Nothing I've seen you raise is novel, hasn't been considered or has merit worth addressing.

E.g: a govt. (or any single agency/institution) cannot successfully create a bitcoin-like crypto since it would fundamentally undermine the needed zero trust structure of the decentralised network. But this is just so obvious it shows you are well out of your depth that you even consider that feasible ... i.e. likely not worth arguing with.

[flipstyle]

   The phrase "the US government can and always will control the monetary flow of the universe"


Labelling this as a fact is a better refutation of your credibility than anything I can come up with. You could look up the monetary history of the Roman empire for an example of how a centralized authority disintegrates when the cost of expansion outweighs the returns. It's called entropy, I think it's the second law of thermodynamics. While you may worship the US as an eternal deity, I assure you, it is not. In fact, it is based roughly on the same legislative and administrative structure of empires that have waxed and waned in the past. It's a functional model, but also one that is doomed to failure.

      

    

Perhaps I should have been more specific, but I think it should go without saying that I'm not referring to the times of ancient empires.


So long as the U.S. holds the greatest military force and presence worldwide (which, I don't necessarily agree with...at all) along with NATO being a security blanket in case the world goes ape-sh**...I see no logical reason why they would ever concede power to any other nation(s).  About the only other country that poses the greatest threat is China...but we all know how the rest of the world views them and the rest of southeast asia, in general.  They are one of the richest economies but their society as a whole is about as far from progressive as can be.  (you want to talk government corruption, try seeing how majority of people live there)

I think people just get too caught up in their perfect world, libertarian portrait that they forget to see how good they really have it.  Is the US government corrupt? Hell yes.  But try and live in another country and tell me how much you like their government ideologies.   I've had the privilege of traveling all around the world, and unless you've seen what's really out there...it's always easy to complain your ass off.  But like they say, 'the grass is always greener...'

[flipstyle]

E.g: a govt. (or any single agency/institution) cannot successfully create a bitcoin-like crypto since it would fundamentally undermine the needed zero trust structure of the decentralised network.

Not when the government owns and maintains the blockchain.  But apparently you didn't even take the time to read and decipher my posts, as has been your general norm.  And who's to say they would even keep the current structure? Bitcoin has so many areas in which it could be tweaked/improved while maintaining its cryptographic nature.   After all, in essence all we're talking about is a digital currency.

Nothing I've seen you raise is novel, hasn't been considered or has merit worth addressing.

Very much mutual.

[Biomech]

It's called "Advice" just like you get on TV about your stock investments.

Take it or leave it.

I don't have to engage in an argument, my position is being underlined every day.

Am I happy its going down? No.

Did I prepare for it going down: Yes

Well put.

I'm on both sides of this argument. I think that long term, digital currencies are the wave of monetary future. Fiat currencies always fail, due to the simple fact that central banks can inflate at will, and frequently do so to cover their own tracks or attempt to mitigate against the stupidity of governments. It never works in the long term, but it does "wonders" in the short term. Digital currencies, by contrast, inflate at a very controlled and largely unmanipulable manner. This makes them a better vehicle for finance in many ways. Also, their quick settlement period will make them attractive to financiers and businesses alike, once third party processing becomes prevalent.

And yes, I do realize that removes the "trustless" paradigm for day to day purchases, but that is necessary if BTC or other digital currencies are to break into the mainstream. The average purchaser does not give a damn that his VISA card actually doesn't settle for 14 days, but he does give a damn that his bitcoin transaction takes an hour to be confirmed. With something like a VISA for BTC, that would change, as settlements up the line are cheaper and faster.

Fundamentally, you are correct.

But the main point all bitcoiners seem to be in grand dilliusion with...is thinking somehow BITCOIN will become the currency of the future.

No.  The crypto technology in itself may be the future, but anyone thinking any government would just let a blockchain ran by faceless miners (who also reap the fees) become the world currency, are seriously sniffing the paint fumes.  The government has, can, and always will control money.

So yes, the crypto technology itself may have a bright future.  But rest assured, the government will be the one creating their own (most notably, the US government), which would mean all alts including bitcoin would either take a huge hit or eventually fade away into obscurity.

Governments have not always controlled the money. they've always TRIED, but it has varied throughout history. That being said, you're probably right as to BTC not being the world's currency. However, I think that block chain based currency is likely where money will go, regardless of who issues the starting wallet. I think BTC will be around and a useful player for a long time to come, but it is largely because it was first. I think it likely that governments will start to use blockchain currency because it at least gives an illusion of control to the masses, and I think that alternates such as BTC will continue to exist and maybe even supplant many governmental currencies. I could also see the governments (yes, particular the US) adopting (read co-opting) an existing blockchain based currency. Again, I don't think it would be bitcoin, as it's unit is too large and people in general are not going to want to deal with 8 decimal places.