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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008361 times)
arlekyn13
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February 05, 2014, 10:40:42 AM
 #29461

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.


There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)


Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.



No, I'm not sure and I think you are actually right. The "appreciation" was about price reduction rather than early delivery. So batch 1 could expect delivery, either physically or virtual, around 1st of June. Argh, don't even want to think what the difficulty will be by that time Smiley

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de_ixie
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February 05, 2014, 10:40:51 AM
 #29462

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.


There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)


Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.



Yep - they sold us (me) CA with the words: These units will be delivered 3-4 weeks before any machine will be delivered to the general puplic. As a gift for funding their company from day zero. But you also let me doubt that point now  Huh Darn, maybe I got tricked.

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February 05, 2014, 10:44:34 AM
 #29463

I'm actually considering getting a refund. The viability of a miner is starting to make little sense. Last month I made 52 bitcoins through trading altcoins -> bitcoins. My two neptunes I have on order will take a considerably amount of time to make that (if ever). The $20k+ I have sunk into the neptunes I can turn into higher returns much quicker without overheads. $1600 spent also on 4 x 1500w PSUs already for these units.

It is not looking like feb will deliver. Running through potential returns from the hosted contract (whenever that is? again very vague) makes the whole opportunity a waste of time and money when engaging with the crypto market as a whole.

Many miners are in it as they love the tech and the 'mining'. Its like getting a new car. You want to drive it and simply have it, take it for a spin, give it a clean on the weekends. You don't want your mate to own it (after you paid full ticket price) and offer to drive you wherever whenever you want. The same logic applies.

If it's purely about the money then mining is illogical against the current crypto landscape. I'm giving it two weeks and if not more actual dates materialise; then I am dumping the 2 Neptunes to buy some skanky alt coins to flip.
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February 05, 2014, 10:47:52 AM
 #29464

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.


There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)


Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.



Yep - they sold us (me) CA with the words: These units will be delivered 3-4 weeks before any machine will be delivered to the general puplic. As a gift for funding their company from day zero. But you also let me doubt that point now  Huh Darn, maybe I got tricked.
you are still right its just lemonte who seems to be confused! not us!
arlekyn13
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February 05, 2014, 10:48:16 AM
 #29465

Well, to be honest, I don't clearly remember. Maybe it was some 2-3 weeks period mentioned? Thing is, if KNC would REALLY want to say a big THANK YOU to their Oct/Nov customers, they could just start hashing right away for their customers, until Neptunes are released. "But, wait, this would mean profit for the customers?! In BTC?! Neah, fuck'em, let's just mine for ourselves as long as our sale terms allow us!". I bet there will be some "smart" guys coming in here and say: "Look, I love KNC, they gave me the most fucking awesome deal ever: I mined 5 BTC with my Neptune! And I only paid USD 13k for it, while my 5 BTC are now worth $(insert any amount greater than $13k here due to BTC price increase)"

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The Avenger
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February 05, 2014, 11:11:37 AM
 #29466

"We are a very ambitious company but even for us, to go “all in” and not be able to deliver on our performance targets..."

Did you all notice the use of gambling terminology?

I assume they mean the gamble is they are using the mark-up/profits from Neptune to fund the datacentre, before they even deliver neptune. That IS a gamble.

I guess it's hedged against the fact they will easily have enough hashing power in that datacentre to offer it to people if they fail to deliver neptune.

But they are taking the stockbroker approach - they are gambling your money, not their own. So if they lose, it's egg on their face, but no financial loss.

What a great position to be in, to gamble with other people's money.

So, as I've been saying since December, you've got to be sure they are working out a way to stop people from getting refund's, (as Plan B has probably caused just about as many as they hoped it would stop  Grin ).

KNC can't gamble without your money - stop asking for refunds!

Already it seems they are making it very difficult, pushing the refund process out 10 days at a time through paperwork.

So you gotta assume this is part of the bigger plan to stop refunds entirely.

They got it sewn up for batch 2 by not offering it. It's just you batch 1 guys they have to deal with.

And if knc act in future the way they have done in the past, you'll remember they stopped people from getting refunds in September, before they shipped a single device, totally breaking they "refunds up to shipping" pledge, because they were taking quite a hit from refunds.

This, from 27th September 2013, when I still vaguely believed in KNC:

3. Sam paid out $31k refund on the 24th, which might have had a big influence on stopping refunds. He could easily have put the no refunds in place 24th and told them to get lost. I think it shows integrity that as late as 24th, he paid out such a massive refund. Many companies (who will remain nameless) would try to worm out of it.

Integrity? What was I thinking?  Cheesy

In the past, they broke their "refunds up to shipping" pledge after giving some big refunds. Just sayin. Don't say you haven't been (fore)warned.

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February 05, 2014, 11:15:02 AM
 #29467

"We are a very ambitious company but even for us, to go “all in” and not be able to deliver on our performance targets..."

Did you all notice the use of gambling terminology?

I assume they mean the gamble is they are using the mark-up/profits from Neptune to fund the datacentre, before they even deliver neptune. That IS a gamble.

But they are taking the stockbroker approach - they are gambling your money, not their own. So if they lose, it's egg on their face, but no financial loss.

What a great position to be in, to gamble with other people's money.

So, as I've been saying since December, you've got to be sure they are working out a way to stop people from getting refund's, (as Plan B has probably caused just about as many as they hoped it would stop  Grin ).

KNC can't gamble without your money - stop asking for refunds!

Already it seems they are making it very difficult, pushing the refund process out 10 days at a time through paperwork.

So you gotta assume this is part of the bigger plan to stop refunds entirely.

They got it sewn up for batch 2 by not offering it. It's just you batch 1 guys they have to deal with.

And if knc act in future the way they have done in the past, you'll remember they stopped people from getting refunds in September, before they shipped a single device, totally breaking they "refunds up to shipping" pledge, because they were taking quite a hit from refunds.

This, from 27th September 2013, when I still vaguely believed in KNC:

3. Sam paid out $31k refund on the 24th, which might have had a big influence on stopping refunds. He could easily have put the no refunds in place 24th and told them to get lost. I think it shows integrity that as late as 24th, he paid out such a massive refund. Many companies (who will remain nameless) would try to worm out of it.

Integrity? What was I thinking?  Cheesy

In the past, they broke their "refunds up to shipping" pledge after giving some big refunds. Just sayin. Don't say you haven't been (fore)warned.


FUD, as usual.

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The Avenger
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February 05, 2014, 11:18:08 AM
 #29468

FUD, as usual.
Ah, the scottish scammer rears his ugly head in the knc thread. Welcome.

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raskul
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February 05, 2014, 11:32:02 AM
 #29469

So, here's they way I read it, as a follower of knc, and 'scammer' should you wish to believe that.

Whilst struggling to compile 20nm chips, KNC will be hosting equivalent TH/s for B1 customers using 28nm, with no hosting fee. Of course, had we anticipated the time-scale of the release of 20nm tech in October last year, we may well have questioned KNC delivery dates there and then and held off funding their operation with our pre-orders.

Succinctly, although hypothetically, here is how I might consider the overall view, had I been an engineer working on 20nm technology;

If I had designed a 20nm chip, I wouldn't be building bitcoin mining rigs with it, i'd be selling off the rights to massive global corporations and making billions of $'s. (that's $cottish Dollars, to make it simple for those who are unsure.)

I'd advise cancelling your KNC orders and asking for refunds. It'll be 2015 before we see a stable 20nm chip in a bitcoin mining rig.

best wishes,

R


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February 05, 2014, 11:41:16 AM
 #29470

Quote
Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 
In the addition to this commitment, as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package where we will simply fill your wallets directly and you won’t have to worry about anything else. All the other costs taken care of by us. We are able to do this by using our 28nm chips which is why all products that we have coming out of our factory in the next few months will go into building and supplying the Plan B facility.

So if I read this right. We're not selling Jups or any 28nm kit to you, were building loads now though and mining with it for ourselves and building ourselves a datacentre and you'll get free hosting on your Neps ?

I'd love to know how much hashpower they intend to add. It looks to me as if instead of protecting us customers, they are intent on making life harder by joining the other ASIC suppliers increasing the difficulty and reducing our income from the rigs we have now (which we can't upgrade or replace from them).

A few people have said this would be their path. They make more mining than selling given that they only have the cost price to earn back. I'm fairly sure that they said they'd limit their mining though right at the start. Now they are competing with us. Lovely. We don't need to watch Cointerra and the rest, we know for sure that KNC can produce good kit pretty quickly with no problems at all in huge quantity.

Disappointed in them. Not surprised though. They seem to have forgotten their existing customers quite easily.
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February 05, 2014, 11:44:10 AM
 #29471

So, here's they way I read it, as a follower of knc, and 'scammer' should you wish to believe that.

Whilst struggling to compile 20nm chips, KNC will be hosting equivalent TH/s for B1 customers using 28nm, with no hosting fee. Of course, had we anticipated the time-scale of the release of 20nm tech in October last year, we may well have questioned KNC delivery dates there and then and held off funding their operation with our pre-orders.

Succinctly, although hypothetically, here is how I might consider the overall view, had I been an engineer working on 20nm technology;

If I had designed a 20nm chip, I wouldn't be building bitcoin mining rigs with it, i'd be selling off the rights to massive global corporations and making billions of $'s. (that's $cottish Dollars, to make it simple for those who are unsure.)

I'd advise cancelling your KNC orders and asking for refunds. It'll be 2015 before we see a stable 20nm chip in a bitcoin mining rig.

best wishes,

R



you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. they do not work on 20nm technology - they work with it. why would any global corporation with "billions" buy the rights for a chipdesign when they can easily make one themselve?

They will use the prefunded 20nm chips to bolster their family business, is all...

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February 05, 2014, 11:44:29 AM
 #29472

So, here's they way I read it, as a follower of knc, and 'scammer' should you wish to believe that.

Whilst struggling to compile 20nm chips, KNC will be hosting equivalent TH/s for B1 customers using 28nm, with no hosting fee. Of course, had we anticipated the time-scale of the release of 20nm tech in October last year, we may well have questioned KNC delivery dates there and then and held off funding their operation with our pre-orders.

Succinctly, although hypothetically, here is how I might consider the overall view, had I been an engineer working on 20nm technology;

If I had designed a 20nm chip, I wouldn't be building bitcoin mining rigs with it, i'd be selling off the rights to massive global corporations and making billions of $'s. (that's $cottish Dollars, to make it simple for those who are unsure.)

I'd advise cancelling your KNC orders and asking for refunds. It'll be 2015 before we see a stable 20nm chip in a bitcoin mining rig.

best wishes,

R



You wouldn't make much from 20nm when Samsung and Intel are already on 14nm I think. Google it.
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February 05, 2014, 11:48:17 AM
 #29473

So, here's they way I read it, as a follower of knc, and 'scammer' should you wish to believe that.

Whilst struggling to compile 20nm chips, KNC will be hosting equivalent TH/s for B1 customers using 28nm, with no hosting fee. Of course, had we anticipated the time-scale of the release of 20nm tech in October last year, we may well have questioned KNC delivery dates there and then and held off funding their operation with our pre-orders.

Succinctly, although hypothetically, here is how I might consider the overall view, had I been an engineer working on 20nm technology;

If I had designed a 20nm chip, I wouldn't be building bitcoin mining rigs with it, i'd be selling off the rights to massive global corporations and making billions of $'s. (that's $cottish Dollars, to make it simple for those who are unsure.)

I'd advise cancelling your KNC orders and asking for refunds. It'll be 2015 before we see a stable 20nm chip in a bitcoin mining rig.

best wishes,

R



You wouldn't make much from 20nm when Samsung and Intel are already on 14nm I think. Google it.

I think the race to 14nm is getting quite hot actually;

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/174832-intel-cancels-14nm-fab-42-in-arizona-but-its-nothing-to-worry-about

and here is what I know of 20nm;

http://www.decryptedtech.com/news/tsmc-starts-mass-production-of-20-nm-chips

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February 05, 2014, 11:53:44 AM
 #29474

Hi guys,

It is understandable that you would all like some more information regarding 'Plan B'. As I said in my previous post, the finer details have not yet been ironed out and will most likely not be 100% decided until we decide to cross that bridge. We are still continuing with great success and with full steam on the original path and we will have some further information for you very soon, so please stay tuned!

I see a lot of questions regarding upgrade modules. We are still looking at the possibility of releasing more upgrade cards for sale. However, our management team are still yet to decide the details of this. As soon as we have an update, we will let you all know.
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February 05, 2014, 12:25:23 PM
 #29475

we gave them our Money to build neptunes, but they used it to build worlds bigges mining rig for them self.
this is clearly breaking a contract, so this is a scam for the law.

No it isn't.
You've agreed to give them money.
They've agreed to give you a Neptune at the end of Q2.
You have no control over what they do with your money in the meantime.

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February 05, 2014, 12:32:18 PM
 #29476

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.
Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

My interpretation:
Batch 1 delivered 1st July.
Batch 2 delivered 3-4 weeks later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.
Batch 3 delivered 1 month later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.

Batch 1 customers are delivered on time.
They just say to batch 2 and 3 customers "Yes, we were late, but it didn't affect you, because we gave you free hashing to match"

From middle to end of June, your machines will be 'in production', and unable to be refunded.

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February 05, 2014, 12:37:59 PM
 #29477

My interpretation:
Batch 1 delivered 1st July.
Batch 2 delivered 3-4 weeks later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.
Batch 3 delivered 1 month later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.

And this quite neatly:
a) Provides no advanced hashing benefit at all to batch 1 customers.
b) Depending on the exact wording, may not break any of the vague promises they have made, as they won't be 'delivering' or 'selling' any Neptunes to any other customers on 1st July.

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February 05, 2014, 12:40:58 PM
 #29478

You have no control over what they do with your money in the meantime.
What?

If I gave money to a stockbroker to invest in a financial product and he spent it all on hookers and blow, that would be a felony.

If people have provided money to a company to build bitcoin miners and they are using that to build themselves a fucking datacentre, that would be a _______ Huh

The lawless are out in force today!

My interpretation:
Batch 1 delivered 1st July.
Batch 2 delivered 3-4 weeks later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.
Batch 3 delivered 1 month later, but with compensatory cloud hashing from 1st July.
...
BS.

The cloud "compensation" won't start until it's due.

Yes, it should start for Batch 1 on 1st July.

But it won't start for the people promised delivery 3-4 weeks later - UNTIL 4 WEEKS LATER (beginning of August). etc

You think knc are going to give away free hashing before it's due?

LOL. You don't know knc very well. Same company who break their own T&C's by forcing customers to pay the shipping costs to ship faulty goods back to Sweden, to save themselves a few bucks.

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February 05, 2014, 01:05:27 PM
 #29479

the reason that like knc said
does not option for pick up nepture

is because nepture will be at knc data center at sweden Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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February 05, 2014, 01:29:28 PM
 #29480

...they can easily make one themselve?

ROFL. if it was the case that KNC could 'easily make' the 20nm chips they need, you would have had your neptune by now, would you not?

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