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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011830 times)
de_ixie
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February 05, 2014, 08:47:30 AM
 #29441

Interestingly... in all other competitor threads "KnC Plan B" is considered as a step towards customer appreciation... in the KnC thread itself people tear it apart... how I love this ambiguity  Grin

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February 05, 2014, 08:47:48 AM
 #29442

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...

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February 05, 2014, 09:03:29 AM
 #29443

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...
I think you are reading it wrong.

They are building the data centre shortly with their 28nm products. That data centre will be raise the difficulty dramatically and reduce your current income (and the future income of the neptune).

Once it gets to July 1st, the first day they will be 'late' THEN you get access to your 3TH of hosted mining, BUT at that point it will probably be making 0.01 BTC per day and any chance of an ROI will be gone.

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February 05, 2014, 09:09:32 AM
 #29444

Will someone please explain both sides of this

It's smart to keep your Neptune order because:


You are all forgetting who you are dealing with. You are dealing with KnC, not Hashfast, cointerra, Avalon, VMC, etc

KnC were very fair to their October hosted customers.
1) they gave 5 BTC compensation for being about 7 days late
2) they extended the 6 months paid hosting by 1 month
3) they gave additional hashrate (worth about 9btc) for 2 months for hosted Jupiters

Now if you were to 3rd party colocate a Neptune, using about 2700kw power, you will be paying about $650/month plus another $400-600 for the 2 PSUs. Say 6 x 650 + 500 = $4400

The future (4-5 months from now when difficulty is over 20 billion) is centralized hashing in big datacentres with cheap electricity and cooling.

NO NO NO

KNC gave me 8 boards (my entire orders) with die #0 issue, 15 days delay (got my machines on Nov 1st) and a big middle finger as compensation. Amount invested in KNC Oct gear: BTC160. Amount mined so far: BTC60. A big portion of my loss is due because KNC sold to much hash power, thus killing the profitability of the machines. My fault for not taking that into account and believing in their so called "care for their customers"
It will be the same with the Neptunes, except the fact that the loss will be smaller due to machines being cheaper (btc wise - after all, we're miners, we should all calculate in BTC, not fiat).

Regarding the general hysteria about KNC's mega mining farm, well, they will most likely sell the hashing power. They chose to do it virtually from now on, instead of psychically deliver the miners. It's the same shit. I once said that if I were an ASIC producer, I'd sell even 1 million machines if I had the customers for them. WHY would I care about those machines profitability for their owners?!
For all those customers looking to buy new Jupiters and/or upgrade modules, you'll soon have the option to buy them, just not physically, but rather virtually, hosted in a data center.
Regarding the complaints about KNC building their farms with their (Neptune) customers money, it's a wrong assumption. They built it with PROFITS from Jupiter sales. It's KNC's profits, it's their money, they can do whatever they like with it.
So stop complaining about KNC (or any other ASIC producer) bringing huge amounts of hashing power to the network. You'd do the same if you could and complaining won't stop them from doing it. They will stop when there will be no more customers buying it and mining with their own gear will be no longer profitable.
How did that happen?  June 3rd, when they first became available, the btc price was $130, while the Jupiter was $7,000, so your 2 jupiters should have costed around 107 btc, not 160.  Please clarify, because your numbers just don't jive.

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February 05, 2014, 09:14:15 AM
 #29445

I'm in full conspiracy mode now, lol.  I haven't seen anyone mention this very likely possibility yet...

20nm will never be developed by KNC.

Why?  Because if KNC never has to deliver a working Neptune to your door (c'mon aren't we all thinking we'll never see a real Neptune in person, right?)  Then what incentive do they have to build the new product when the 28nm Jupiters will do the hosted mining job perfectly fine with ultra cheap electricity.

We might see photos of datacenters filled with "our" Neptunes hashing away.  Shhhh, they'll just be Super-Jupiters in newly designed boxes.   But we will never have direct control of our individual boxes, just some vague, generic hashrate that we may have minimal control over.  So we'll never no for sure what KNC is hashing with.



Bookmark this post.  I want full credit when the conspiracy is exposed.  Cheesy

if your conspiracy is correct it will be built...they can do a lot for their farm with 20mm......just saying if you are correct more incentive to build the next gen for your large farm

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February 05, 2014, 09:20:52 AM
 #29446

Grin Fair enough! It's much more fun than betting.

More fun, yes.  But more profitable, probably not anymore.  My pile of gear is going to have to amuse me without growing larger now.  It was fun while it lasted.   Cry

Just increase your farm by 20% every two weeks Smiley

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February 05, 2014, 09:21:28 AM
 #29447

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced it will come true.  Someone please convince me that I'm crazy and I'll book an appointment for a shrink right now!

You're crazy lol. They'll be produced and will ship.

I said 3 months ago KNC is shifting to industrial/co-lo only stuff, and this is their major step toward that effort. This is likely the last year KNC ships to individuals.

I've always thought this...but if figured it would be after Neptune generation and happen end of fall 2014.....

but yet again bitcoin difficulty and such equip coming out it is faster and faster so now it is spring

I think it likely knc wanted to do the farm with 20mm from the get go...but looking at all the hash and difficulty rising punted back to 28mm with the hash plan for neptunes if they don't get them out in time


likely the way knc gets stuff out at the last min they will ship the Neptune on hand in time..heh...and give you the option to host ...man that would really shake up the bitcoin mining world..here is your equp with these other hosting choices with difficulty increasing.....be just like them to give us neptunes in middle of march..the fiends..heh

anyway..things are slipping fast diff rate wise with btc....they can see it coming as well as the rest of us...so yeah commercial looks like the way it will go in mining from the summer on imho

Searing

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February 05, 2014, 09:31:23 AM
 #29448

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...
I think you are reading it wrong.

They are building the data centre shortly with their 28nm products. That data centre will be raise the difficulty dramatically and reduce your current income (and the future income of the neptune).

Once it gets to July 1st, the first day they will be 'late' THEN you get access to your 3TH of hosted mining, BUT at that point it will probably be making 0.01 BTC per day and any chance of an ROI will be gone.


They don't mention July the 1st in the newsletter:

Quote
Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 
In the addition to this commitment, as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package where we will simply fill your wallets directly and you won’t have to worry about anything else. All the other costs taken care of by us. We are able to do this by using our 28nm chips which is why all products that we have coming out of our factory in the next few months will go into building and supplying the Plan B facility.

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February 05, 2014, 09:38:50 AM
 #29449

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...
I think you are reading it wrong.

They are building the data centre shortly with their 28nm products. That data centre will be raise the difficulty dramatically and reduce your current income (and the future income of the neptune).

Once it gets to July 1st, the first day they will be 'late' THEN you get access to your 3TH of hosted mining, BUT at that point it will probably be making 0.01 BTC per day and any chance of an ROI will be gone.



well assuming you are correct..get a refund now up to shipping.....but its my view that the boat has sailed.....they were always gonna mine at least 5% was it of what they sell anyway...that is always gonna grow as network does...as to doing a mining hosting rig thing..ie selling virtual machines that hash..well that is where it all is going with mining anyway...even I saw that coming but not this soon

so they mine 5% if that is the figure they gave on themselves and sell the rest to us as virtual miners.....imho they are just doing this a lot sooner then I thought

and as far as messing up the network with difficulty..they are gonna do the same thing with the physical neptunes anyway.....you just expected them to stop after the neptunes shipped say if they were/are on time in what july 1st by the last batch

nope from their point of view it has gotten too nuts to mnfg only and this is their exit strategy..you can either get a refund ...wait for equip to get to you  and take the hash in the mean time....

thems the choices

for me just shocked it happened in Feb mnfg companies are moving this way vs nov/dec when I expected such a change

you can't blame the company because the river suddenly sped up and now their are rapids....ie they figure they need a bigger boat...us.....well we can take their bigger boat or not go down the river again imho they ..the mnfg companies all had this as a plan..if bitcoin works and difficulty goes up it is the same as 'pools' now .it was/is inevitable

so I have a choice.....get Neptunes with the above conditions or refund them

heck of a lot more choice then I have or had with anyone else

Searing

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February 05, 2014, 09:39:44 AM
 #29450

Interestingly... in all other competitor threads "KnC Plan B" is considered as a step towards customer appreciation... in the KnC thread itself people tear it apart... how I love this ambiguity  Grin

Its really only being torn apart by the people that have been trying to tear the thread apart for months now. We should really just thank them, tell them they were right and we were all wrong, pay them a BTC tip for their troubles and maybe they'll go play somewhere else for a while Smiley

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February 05, 2014, 09:50:33 AM
 #29451


They don't mention July the 1st in the newsletter:

Quote
Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

and as far as messing up the network with difficulty..they are gonna do the same thing with the physical neptunes anyway.....you just expected them to stop after the neptunes shipped say if they were/are on time in what july 1st by the last batch

The problem isn't what they do AFTER the neptunes ship, it's that they are bringing online hashrate in advance of future sales, and that hashrate devalues existing and future purchases.

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February 05, 2014, 10:14:04 AM
 #29452

Interestingly... in all other competitor threads "KnC Plan B" is considered as a step towards customer appreciation... in the KnC thread itself people tear it apart... how I love this ambiguity  Grin


well to be fair the other mnfg's "rape you " imho

KNC seems to wine and dine you..but never calls you for a 2nd date

I know I'm a smart ass but they are a 'business' they can be fair and still tweak things to their advantage

you either want the product or you don't ......how their product screws up difficulty or your expectations summer and beyond  is irrelevant

and back to my decision punt or keep the neptunes with this further option...such as it is the only thing they are offering

there is also still a chance they will deliver neptunes on time and still say they will only mine themselves 5% or whatever it was of the network and also
offer gh farm hosting for virtual neptunes after they ship the neputnes etc....smart business imho they pull that off if it hurts small miners....well tough from a
business point of view

and from a business point of view ..the only thing wrong with that is they probably gave everyone too much notice to be a good business decision if you
had business types look over the plan..they could have sat on this another month imho easy

small miners are gonna be toast soon...this is just a flare to announce such

anyway I and others have to decide if a Neptune any batch is worth it or is it time get a refund

other then that the rest of these large entities banging around like large elephants to find their new footing

might be time to just refund buy btc and make this a sideline sport

Searing

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February 05, 2014, 10:21:01 AM
 #29453

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.

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February 05, 2014, 10:25:51 AM
 #29454

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.


There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)

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February 05, 2014, 10:26:50 AM
 #29455

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.


There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)


There were three batches... call them however you want to call them Wink

Edit: Most close would be I guess

Batch 1 (CA), 1200 Units 3-4 weeks before
Batch 1 (General), 1200 Units 1 month before
Batch 2 (General), 1200 Units delivery Q2

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Searing
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February 05, 2014, 10:27:57 AM
 #29456


They don't mention July the 1st in the newsletter:

Quote
Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

and as far as messing up the network with difficulty..they are gonna do the same thing with the physical neptunes anyway.....you just expected them to stop after the neptunes shipped say if they were/are on time in what july 1st by the last batch

The problem isn't what they do AFTER the neptunes ship, it's that they are bringing online hashrate in advance of future sales, and that hashrate devalues existing and future purchases.


your point? I mean they always were gonna screw up the hashrate they all are they are asic mnfg companies....knc offered with their network plan to slow the diff down somewhat with the other mnfg asic makers...so....you really think cointerra or bfl with mass production is gonna slow down...I expect we will be at batch 12 or some such with cointerra this fall...so imho it is a moot point after the neptunes is just that after.....now they have a quicker way to sell hash and keep the equip no need to announce and wait 5 months in knc's case to get something...if nothing else it ALL IS GONNA GET EVEN MORE NUTS as far as difficulty etc hash etc.....they probably all are gonna go virtual and then the race will really be on

at best with knc if they made physical equip in fall or future we would have had a lag...there is no more lag imho it is balls to the wall difficulty wise imho

now if BTC price can keep up or not is a different question imho

Searing

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arlekyn13
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February 05, 2014, 10:29:55 AM
 #29457

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.


There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)


Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
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February 05, 2014, 10:34:00 AM
 #29458

I'm in full conspiracy mode now, lol.  I haven't seen anyone mention this very likely possibility yet...

20nm will never be developed by KNC.

Why?  Because if KNC never has to deliver a working Neptune to your door (c'mon aren't we all thinking we'll never see a real Neptune in person, right?)  Then what incentive do they have to build the new product when the 28nm Jupiters will do the hosted mining job perfectly fine with ultra cheap electricity.

We might see photos of datacenters filled with "our" Neptunes hashing away.  Shh, they'll just be Super-Jupiters in newly designed boxes.   But we will never have direct control of our individual boxes, just some vague, generic hashrate that we may have minimal control over.  So we'll never no for sure what KNC is hashing with.



Bookmark this post.  I want full credit when the conspiracy is exposed.  Cheesy

Why will no one see a working Neptune? I will be having mine delivered, regardless of the data centre.

I can almost guarantee that we will ultimately never be given the option of delivery for whatever bullshit reason they conjure up.

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced it will come true.  Someone please convince me that I'm crazy and I'll book an appointment for a shrink right now!
why? what's wrong with crazy?

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February 05, 2014, 10:34:46 AM
 #29459

You need to read between the lines, the wording is carefully chosen.

Look at the underlined part, as they only said Q1/Q2 delivery they won't be late until July 1st.

I have to contradict here in terms of Batch 1 (CA Batch) & Batch 2 -

Batch 1 ToS state: Q1/Q2 but delivery 3-4 weeks before batch 2 which equals delay = 1st July -3/4 weeks
Batch 2 ToS state: Delivery one month before batch 3 which equals delay= 1st July - roughly 2 month (for batch 1)
Batch 3 ToS state: Delivery Q 2

Not much space for interpretation here. Batch 1 hashing has to start latest around early May to satisfy the ToS of all batches 1-3.


There isn't 3 batches, there are 2, you are getting confused as the initial release had a different price tag (for previous customers)


Customer appreciation batch clearly specified: a "limited quantity of 1200 units" and earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales.

Are you sure that it stated "earlier delivery of 3-4 weeks from any of the following Neptune sales."? I was under the impression that the initial 1200 would be shipped, followed shortly by the first of the $12,000 ones, and then a month after that "batch 1" has shipped, the $10,000 batch 2 would begin to ship.


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February 05, 2014, 10:38:44 AM
 #29460

the problem is that
first batch must delivery at q1 at last

so i think that people which pay for batch 1(zero 0) batch

must at end of q1

hashing with knc data center

because it is impossible to have his miners 20nm

so these is the good news from batch 0 nepture people Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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