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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039465 times)
opentoe
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February 07, 2014, 02:04:00 AM
 #29581

So, you guys wouldn't take 3Th/s of hosted cloud-hashing say, next month, as opposed to waiting until the end of Q2 for a physical Neptune?  I would, in a heartbeat. Everyone wins that way. It would definitely work in everyone's favor considering the alternatives.

Yes, great plan.  Let's put near complete control of 20PH of hardware into KnC's hands.  The brilliance from your greed is impressive.
Greed?
That's ridiculous. Cutting your losses is't greed, it's investment strategy. You may feel comfy with waiting until the end of July for 3 TH/s, but some of us don't. I have no idea how you get "greed" out of a customer deciding he would take 3Th/s now, over 3Th/s later. Any other decision would be utter stupidity IMHO. Seems to me, if Neptune is going to be later than expected, than you really have two choices... 1. Take the cloud-hashing offer when it comes.  or 2......   Don't.  You will, and you know it. If you decide not to, I'll shoot you my btc address, just have them send it to me, lol...  Then you can take over when your precious machine arrives. The whole premise of refusing a cloud-hashing offer over waiting 3 to 4 more months for a Neptune doesn't sound like you have 3 marbles left to rattle upstairs...
I think it was VERY thoughtful and skill-ful of KNC to cover our asses with cloudhosting, VERY.


Damn, KNC really screwed people on this one. All you guys basically filled their wallets again so they can build a big hashing farm for themselves to make themselves even more money. Would of been prudent if they mentioned this cloud hashing power thing when sucking in the thousands selling Neptunes. I'd be quite pissed really knowing a product may really never even show up. Once KNC gets on that cloud hashing farm trip they aren't going to worry about Neptunes or anything like that.

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February 07, 2014, 02:14:14 AM
 #29582

Think again. $40k gets you 5 TH delivered next week. By the time you get the Neptunes, difficulty will be much higher. 5 TH now is far more profitable than 12 TH several months from now.
5th next week? Who sells them?
25+ Antminers from Bitmain.
https://www.bitmaintech.com/product.htm
3th of Antminers = 5kw (by taking 300watts per Antminer) = 31.654BTC (without shipping) = 25.8k $
3th of Neptunes = 2.5kw = 14.6BTC = 12k $

Two times more $$$ and watts for the same hash-power.

There is a really big difference here. You really can't even get a Neptune for at least another several months so why even compare right now?

All my friends requested refunds also for their Neptunes. In the bunch I think there was like 18 of them. Don't be surprised if you see some go on sale or we hear some news from KNC now. Once they see their very loyal customer base is dumping them out I'm pretty sure we'll eventually hear some thing from them soon. They only have one spokesperson here who isn't a sales person and can't really confirm on anything since all decisions are made by Sam. Only a matter of time we'll hear something. Once you are a millionaire and see possible money that could be yours leaving your bank account it starts to make you worry, no matter how much you have.



I predicted KNC would have to speak up, with all those Neptune refund requests they got nervous. The ONLY way to stop people from requesting more refunds is to offer them something else. Doesn't matter what it is. Just any kind of financial compensation even if it's true or not. They rarely ever announce anything...but seeing those Neptune sales turn around a bit they have to think of something. Kind of crazy this all comes and ironic this all comes about on the heels of many Neptune refunds. One way to stop it in its tracks, offer some kind of compensation. No real specific details, just a vague offer. Nice!!!

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February 07, 2014, 02:44:05 AM
 #29583

Wall Street Jornal piece shows that KnC made 15mil profit on 75 mil in sales last year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/06/cold-virtual-cash-a-bitcoin-mining-center-for-sweden/
These are strange figures because they collected 28-34 mil on preorders, but hardly expensed anything yet on Neptune. If it is so, then they were $20 mil "in the hole' before collecting Neptune preorders. Alternatively, they were probably already in the black with Jupiters and then used at least half of Neptune money to make a prepayment or payment on the datacenter and/or unreleased Jupiters.

If it is so, it would mean that  plan B was their original intention all along.
I will wait until i hear about hosting arrangements, then decide.

I keep asking where they are getting the money to building a datacentre, tens of thousands of Jupiters and still have cash left over for Neptune?

If they only made $15 million profit, all of that would not cover the cost of the 18000 Jupiters (my guesstimate is 18000 would cost about $18million @ $1000/unit). And there is no way they are risking their profits on this venture - they aren't stupid.

And if they are honestly going to "loan" these 18000 jupiters to Neptune customers if Neptune is late, they are surely going to build some more for themselves/byteminr to sell as cloud hashing? They have to for Byteminr. I threw around the figure of 35,000 Jupiters yesterday, meaning they would have about half as many for themselves as they "give" to Neptune customers.

Where the hell are they going to get $35+million from?

It's got to be the $44million in Neptune pre-order money.

Which would lead a person to believe:
1) They will have no money left after this, so Neptune will never be built. So 3600 neptune customers will become the first 3600 knc cloud hashing customers ("Sorry, neptune delays, have 3TH in our datacentre", which is basically what they said in the latest newsletter).
2) They expect to pay for Neptune development and production costs out of bitcoin mining earnings. That is some gamble.

I think anyone with a Neptune order should be paying for a spy to keep an eye on the knc military complex and see if they turn on those Jupiters they are going to "compensate" the Neptune people with.

Because if they ass-rape-pre-mined them from, let's say, June, before they start handing out the 3TH compensation to Neptune customers in July, they will ensure the difficulty is so sky high that in July, 3TH is almost worthless, as the difficulty will have risen to account for all these machines already and knc will be the beneficiary. Anyone with an early October Jupiter knows how well you can do in the first difficulty period or two, before the earnings flatten out quickly to next to nothing.

People seem very casual about this.

"I am not The Avenger"
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dropt
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February 07, 2014, 02:53:09 AM
Last edit: February 07, 2014, 03:21:20 AM by dropt
 #29584

care to give reasons why?
that's just a smart-ass remark ... with no substance.

which part doesn't jive?
You are saying you would recommend to the owner of a 4 port Jupiter, who has no experience soldering, to attach 2 more ports?
Or that upgrade cards weren't meant for Saturn or Mercury owners?
or that it's a snap to get a new controller board if you fuck-up?
please... empty remarks are useless other than to annoy people.
You could at least say why you feel that way.

Well for starters all you did was go off on some diatribe making a whole bunch of assumption about jelin1984.

How do you know he (or she) doesn't have any experience soldering?

\Who are you to deem what is meant for what.  If it was set in stone who the upgrade modules were for they wouldn't have been sold to anyone who came along.  Thus, KnC themselves made that a moot point.

How bad do you really think one can "fuck up" soldering on an idc header?  What, is he going use a blowtorch? It's not some piece of high density equipment with 0402 SMD parts.

Further, you start to pull some massive breakdown of some timeline you dreamed up as if you have some crystal ball looking into everyone else's reality.  Anyone who watches a 10 minute youtube video on soldering could solder an IDC header onto a PCB in 5 minutes.

You've hardly done anything that could be construed as constructive since you joined, what, yesterday?  What account did you drive into the ground and abandon before you made this one?
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February 07, 2014, 02:53:17 AM
 #29585

hope you sold some BTC KNC or perhaps you are now and killing the price!!!

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February 07, 2014, 03:06:53 AM
 #29586


Further, you start to pull some massive breakdown of some timeline you dreamed up as if up have some crystal ball looking into everyone else's reality.  Anyone who watches a 10 minute youtube video on soldering could solder an IDC header onto a PCB in 5 minutes.

You've hardly done anything that could be construed as constructive since you joined, what, yesterday?  What account did you drive into the ground and abandon before you made this one?

+10000

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February 07, 2014, 04:11:21 AM
 #29587

someone send KNC a few of these shirts

Time for Plan B


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February 07, 2014, 04:30:34 AM
 #29588

The Fun of Mining

I got into Bitcoin mining because it was fun, still almost is.  I missed out on getting a November Jupiter, 1 day too late so I bought different Mercury’s and Saturn’s used and started putting them together into Jupiter’s. I find it a lot of fun.  I even went as far as putting up my own P2Poll node on a cloud service and turning it, etc.  I’m fascinated by the whole process. (I’m a developer and an Infrastructure Architect by trade.)  But this whole cloud mining thing is ridiculous.  It only benefits the owners of the equipment, the buyers are always screwed (though the seldom realize it). Even this Neptune protection plan (what about the Jupiter, Saturn, and Mercury customers? F-Off eh?) isn’t really going to protect the Neptune buyers because that datacenter is going to send the difficulty so high it won’t be worth it.

I actually like buying used equipment because I’m not shooting myself in the foot by adding hashing power to the network, for me that’s the best deal if you can get decent prices.  Now that this cloud hashing craze has set in, even the good old guys at KnC got bit by the bug, mining isn’t going to be fun anymore.  What’s the point?  The only mining that will be doing anything are the huge PetaHash/Sec datacenters, kind of like Bank of Americas of Bitcoin. This destroys the whole peer-to-peer power to the people aspect of Bitcoin that makes it so attractive.  Now only people will millions and millions of dollars will run the network and when they decide to take advantage, oops.

Just my 2-cents…*gets off soapbox*
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February 07, 2014, 04:52:54 AM
Last edit: February 07, 2014, 05:13:38 AM by MrPresident
 #29589

care to give reasons why?
that's just a smart-ass remark ... with no substance.

which part doesn't jive?
You are saying you would recommend to the owner of a 4 port Jupiter, who has no experience soldering, to attach 2 more ports?
Or that upgrade cards weren't meant for Saturn or Mercury owners?
or that it's a snap to get a new controller board if you fuck-up?
please... empty remarks are useless other than to annoy people.
You could at least say why you feel that way.

Well for starters all you did was go off on some diatribe making a whole bunch of assumption about jelin1984.

How do you know he (or she) doesn't have any experience soldering?

\Who are you to deem what is meant for what.  If it was set in stone who the upgrade modules were for they wouldn't have been sold to anyone who came along.  Thus, KnC themselves made that a moot point.

How bad do you really think one can "fuck up" soldering on an idc header?  What, is he going use a blowtorch? It's not some piece of high density equipment with 0402 SMD parts.

Further, you start to pull some massive breakdown of some timeline you dreamed up as if you have some crystal ball looking into everyone else's reality.  Anyone who watches a 10 minute youtube video on soldering could solder an IDC header onto a PCB in 5 minutes.

You've hardly done anything that could be construed as constructive since you joined, what, yesterday?  What account did you drive into the ground and abandon before you made this one?
like I thought, you had no real answer.
Stockholm Syndrome.....

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February 07, 2014, 05:05:53 AM
 #29590

It's got to be the $44million in Neptune pre-order money.

Which would lead a person to believe:
1) They will have no money left after this, so Neptune will never be built. So 3600 neptune customers will become the first 3600 knc cloud hashing customers ("Sorry, neptune delays, have 3TH in our datacentre", which is basically what they said in the latest newsletter).

This.

It's a fairly safe bet at this point that the Neptune will never materialize.

I wonder if that was "Plan A" all along.

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February 07, 2014, 06:31:47 AM
 #29591

It's got to be the $44million in Neptune pre-order money.

Which would lead a person to believe:
1) They will have no money left after this, so Neptune will never be built. So 3600 neptune customers will become the first 3600 knc cloud hashing customers ("Sorry, neptune delays, have 3TH in our datacentre", which is basically what they said in the latest newsletter).

This.

It's a fairly safe bet at this point that the Neptune will never materialize.

I wonder if that was "Plan A" all along.

Oh how people like to speculate on things. It's not a safe bet and i will tell you why.First of all we paid for a 20nm product. If they deliver only cloud hashing then they are in big troubles. Second of all why would knc host for free and for life 3600 neptune customers? Because we haven't paid for 3TH for 1 year or 2 years or 5 years. We paid for a product that should run until we choose to turn it off. There is no logic in offering cloud hashing instead of products.

As for Avenger i have two questions. How much is a 20nm mask? If a Jupiter is ~1000$ to make then how much do you think a Neptune costs?

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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February 07, 2014, 08:36:53 AM
 #29592

Woke up to the bellow this morning, No idea as it was working well yesterday with bellow .9% HW

Will not revive today.... Not that it ever needed it yesterday

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February 07, 2014, 09:18:37 AM
 #29593

as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package

quoted from their announcement, emphasis mine.

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February 07, 2014, 09:28:30 AM
 #29594

how manual i can make the diff at worjker at 512? Kiss Kiss Kiss
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February 07, 2014, 10:20:32 AM
 #29595

how manual i can make the diff at worjker at 512? Kiss Kiss Kiss
how i can do manual settings my diff at jupiter at 512?Huh Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
This is done directly on the pool (on eliguis and bitminter you can).
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February 07, 2014, 10:57:22 AM
 #29596

how manual i can make the diff at worjker at 512? Kiss Kiss Kiss

you can only do it if your pool let you Smiley

it's not something you set in cgminer/bfgminer.

If memory serves:

- slush:     you don't have a way to influence the diff settings, this pool use the vardiff algo.
- ghash:    you set the diff from your dashboard (worker section) on ghash site.
- btcguild: ditto.
- eligius:   I know for sure it use vardiff but I don't remember if you can set a minimum value.

 


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February 07, 2014, 10:59:15 AM
 #29597

You can set a manual diff for each worker on Multipool too...

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The Avenger
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February 07, 2014, 11:03:09 AM
 #29598

someone send KNC a few of these shirts

Here's a t-shirt for Neptune customers:

FRONT: I gave KNC $13,000 for a Neptune

BACK: And all I got was this lousy 3TH cloud hashing contract

Tongue

"I am not The Avenger"
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February 07, 2014, 12:16:21 PM
 #29599

10 MW @ 1W/GH = 10Th? 100TH? Seems fine by me with 100TH.
Yeah. A nov jup is about 1.2kw, so that's only about 8000 Jupiters. Only, he said.

Quite a bit more than 5% I'd say.

But of course, it's only to give their neptune customers free hashing in case of delays. And then they are melting down all the old jupiters for scrap metal.

A nov jup is NOT 1.2kW. I remember i saw people drawing ~800-900W.

So 10MW=1000kW= ~8000 TH? Is this right?(that's about 1/3 of total hashrate) I'm bad at math.
close enough

10,000,000 watts / 750 watts for jupiter = 13,333 jupiters
13,333 * 650 = 8,450,000 GH/s
8,450TH/s

next possible news letter from KNC......
'better save some coins handy for KNC bitcoin mining farm.'  Tongue

if can beat them, join them

Now what if they will offer special prices for previous customers on their cloud mining?


er my guess is NO...they have figured out it is easier/more $$$ to sell virtual miners to us all......imho if they do so in a more 'reasonable manner" then some of the other farms out there..the will capture the market...just by being even half assed 'fair' ....whatever you think of KNC's move they do allow refunds up to shipping and they have said they will honor their shipping date with virtual hash....( I could be wrong but I take that as Q1 customer appreciation units around april 1st or so..) if it drags out much longer then that for the 'virtual hash" to kick in I think everyone will bail..but again..if they take the middle road and not try to screw everything down like BFL in their favor ..they may just clean up...again probably better to get BTC I'm just saying ...it they are the 'best' of virtual miner options in the future....ie not gouge the heck out of everyone like the others they will clean up..we will see

but imho.....no equip after the Neptune...it will all be the on the farm....(it is gonna really really have to make sense and be reasonable for me to jump to ' Star Trek:holi-deck mining" ...just saying...can't see it right now as being worth the extra money spent for infrastructure etc....if it is to that point already..then probably BTC purchase direct is the way to go...I mean it sure does not look like regular non-hosting mining units to mom and pop are gonna work under this New World Order of mining imho

but hey they are a business that is where the money is.........well small fry are toast

as usual the above follow the conclusions I really really have NO IDEA....still grappling with all this

Searing














 

 

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Searing
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February 07, 2014, 12:21:10 PM
 #29600

as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package

quoted from their announcement, emphasis mine.

well the month to month would really really have to beat the .15KWH I pay in elec for me to consider this

sad part is they probably can beat my elec costs on 2 neptunes...the fiends ...which means I will have some hard head scratching to do

the real question will be for most of us ...PUNT or 'virtual mine" .....unless they are getting batch customer appreciation out before april 1st either in a miner or a virtual miner format for no cost till said physical miner shows up....

I see more punting Neptunes back for refunds then virtual mining

man I'm so over my head

Searing














 

 

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