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 Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039365 times)
RoadStress
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 February 06, 2014, 03:29:21 PM

10 MW @ 1W/GH = 10Th? 100TH? Seems fine by me with 100TH.
Yeah. A nov jup is about 1.2kw, so that's only about 8000 Jupiters. Only, he said.

Quite a bit more than 5% I'd say.

But of course, it's only to give their neptune customers free hashing in case of delays. And then they are melting down all the old jupiters for scrap metal.

A nov jup is NOT 1.2kW. I remember i saw people drawing ~800-900W.

So 10MW=1000kW= ~8000 TH? Is this right?(that's about 1/3 of total hashrate) I'm bad at math.
close enough

10,000,000 watts / 750 watts for jupiter = 13,333 jupiters
13,333 * 650 = 8,450,000 GH/s
8,450TH/s

next possible news letter from KNC......
'better save some coins handy for KNC bitcoin mining farm.'

if can beat them, join them

Now what if they will offer special prices for previous customers on their cloud mining?

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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The Avenger
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 February 06, 2014, 03:33:47 PM

cloudhashing is a scam..  buying is always cheaper.   good luck finding enough suckers knc
lol, they already have 3600 cloud hashing customers.

"Sorry, neptune delays, have 3TH in our datacentre" = 3600 cloud hashing customers

And the joke is - these 3600 customers paid to build their datacentre and to fit it out with 35000 jupiters.

But KNC will own the building and machines, the customers will own nothing but 3TH for life (aka, nada 6 after months).

It's a win win.

"I am not The Avenger"
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dropt
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 February 06, 2014, 03:34:46 PM

TGB's 60 and 90 day estimates aren't garbage, they've done fairly well over the last few months. Back in September it was showing about a billion for January, and that wasn't far off.

No, it really is garbage.

Quote
So far, the people saying things like this are also the same people who got everything else wrong in this thread. Meanwhile myself, Avenger, and our non-english speaking friend, have had really great projections and speculation-come-true.

Sure thing, buddy.

Quote
Bitcoin works well at \$10 or \$100? What does that matter? I'm sure it would work well at \$1,000,000 also. Sounds like some folks are just upset and want hardware makers to suffer.

They have made not one, or two, but millions of dollars.  I don't think stopping the train there is considered suffering by any stretch of the word.
pedrosoft
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 February 06, 2014, 03:35:02 PM

I pity highschoolers who have to call others names in order to make a point.
That said,  three months projection is NOT a 3 year projection, duh!
70-80% monthly projection made 3 months ago by the referenced site turned out to be pretty accurate, but go ahead, make a better one....crickets.
Three months ago the calculator was at ~103%.  It predicted a difficulty of 4B for Jan and 8B for February.  Get your facts straight.

Most of the preditctions are totally wrong.

Many profit calculators do not consider that most of those that have mining hardware are individuals who have , in most cases,  low-cost and low power consumption hardware. But I think these represent 60% of all.

With the current costs of hardware and eletricity only a few will continue mining Bitcoin and then the difficulty magically settle with increases of a maximum of 15-20 %

MrPresident
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Think or swim.

 February 06, 2014, 03:43:22 PM

cloudhashing is a scam..  buying is always cheaper.   good luck finding enough suckers knc
lol, they already have 3600 cloud hashing customers.

"Sorry, neptune delays, have 3TH in our datacentre" = 3600 cloud hashing customers

And the joke is - these 3600 customers paid to build their datacentre and to fit it out with 35000 jupiters.

But KNC will own the building and machines, the customers will own nothing but 3TH for life (aka, nada 6 after months).

It's a win win.
There went reselling machines....

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dropt
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 February 06, 2014, 03:46:32 PM

Most of the preditctions are totally wrong.

Many profit calculators do not consider that most of those that have mining hardware are individuals who have , in most cases,  low-cost and low power consumption hardware. But I think these represent 60% of all.

With the current costs of hardware and eletricity only a few will continue mining Bitcoin and then the difficulty magically settle with increases of a maximum of 15-20 %

Many calculators do not take into account the physical limitations on a fixed percentage increase per month.

For the difficulty to double in the next month 20PH of new hardware has to ship.  In order for that trend to continue, from Mar-Apr 40PH of new hardware ships.  After that, 80PH of new hardware has to ship.

The massive increases seen in the last year are because of the following:

GPU -> 1st gen ASIC = ~ 8571% increase per unit
1st ASIC -> 2nd ASIC = ~ 500% increase per unit
2nd ASIC -> 3rd ASIC = ~ 300% increase per unit.

Since we're currently in the move from 2nd to 3rd gen ASIC, what we've already experienced is the GPU -> 2nd gen increase which is ~70,000% per unit.  Now compare that to the ~300% increase moving from 2nd -> 3rd.

There's still some rough territory to cover, but the bulk of the massive percentage increases is over.  Caveat: dont' confuse percentage and magnitude.
Biodom
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 February 06, 2014, 04:05:09 PM

Most of the preditctions are totally wrong.

Many profit calculators do not consider that most of those that have mining hardware are individuals who have , in most cases,  low-cost and low power consumption hardware. But I think these represent 60% of all.

With the current costs of hardware and eletricity only a few will continue mining Bitcoin and then the difficulty magically settle with increases of a maximum of 15-20 %

Many calculators do not take into account the physical limitations on a fixed percentage increase per month.

For the difficulty to double in the next month 20PH of new hardware has to ship.  In order for that trend to continue, from Mar-Apr 40PH of new hardware ships.  After that, 80PH of new hardware has to ship.

The massive increases seen in the last year are because of the following:

GPU -> 1st gen ASIC = ~ 8571% increase per unit
1st ASIC -> 2nd ASIC = ~ 500% increase per unit
2nd ASIC -> 3rd ASIC = ~ 300% increase per unit.

Since we're currently in the move from 2nd to 3rd gen ASIC, what we've already experienced is the GPU -> 2nd gen increase which is ~70,000% per unit.  Now compare that to the ~300% increase moving from 2nd -> 3rd.

There's still some rough territory to cover, but the bulk of the massive percentage increases is over.  Caveat: dont' confuse percentage and magnitude.

I agree that trend will decrease, but to what and when? I don't think that it is very predictable. Difficulty was on a rampage in Dec, Jan and still going strong with few of the stated majors shipping (cointerra and hashfast just started). Do you know chinese shipping capacity? What are 21e6 doing? What some other "smart" governments or private individuals doing? It is unknowable.
dropt
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 February 06, 2014, 05:06:24 PM

I agree that trend will decrease, but to what and when? I don't think that it is very predictable. Difficulty was on a rampage in Dec, Jan and still going strong with few of the stated majors shipping (cointerra and hashfast just started). Do you know chinese shipping capacity? What are 21e6 doing? What some other "smart" governments or private individuals doing? It is unknowable.

I believe predictions can be made, but to what level confidence is the question.  I think it's too soon to properly guage how relevent CoinTerra and HF shipping will be, we don't know if they'll ship thousands of units in a short time frame, or if they'll slowly leak out the door like BFL.

soy
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 February 06, 2014, 05:09:30 PM

The news are in Swedish so use google translate.
It shows kncminer new location in an old helicopter hangar in Boden not Luleå.

http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.545516/bitcoingravare-oppnar-gruva-i-boden
http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.545367/helikopterhangar-blir-datahall-i-boden

First post on this forum.
Hello fellow miners!

An airstrip suitable for Josh's plane there?

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bizzyb
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 February 06, 2014, 05:09:35 PM

Difficulty is only going one way ^^^^^^^
No shortage of new entrants in the BTC hardware game.
Just spotted this too;
http://eligius.st/~gateway/products/hashbuster-alpha

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rolling
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 February 06, 2014, 05:10:32 PM

It's good to see KNCs plans becoming more clear now.  Too bad they didn't just tell their customers what they were doing.

They are building this data center to house 10,000 Jupiters and they will turn that hashing power over to Neptune customers if they can't deliver on time (highly likely).  If they can deliver Neptunes on time, they will sell the hashing power through their website instead of physical miners as soon as the data center is up and running.

The article said they are planning to build other data centers, probably to house the 20nm equipment, which will add to their cloud hashing inventory later this year.

The only questions that remains is pricing.  If they are like every other cloud hashing operation, it will be way overpriced.  They will still find suckers and the math-challenged to buy it, no doubt.
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https://www.bitworks.io

 February 06, 2014, 05:19:28 PM

English article of the data center build http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/02/06/bitcoin-miners-building-10-megawatt-data-center-sweden/

Of course one thing that comes to mind is the commitment to not mine with more of 5% of the hashing power sold, this is an excellent way to side step that whole issue. Make the hosting offer to customers on purpose when the time comes, giving them a clean out moving forward. Good business from KNC's perspective.

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vesperwillow
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 February 06, 2014, 05:41:39 PM

No, it really is garbage.

It's not perfect, but between September and January it was within acceptable range every time I checked it against my numbers, and I only looked at the 60 and 90 day projections. Looking back, that range was close enough to be called good. Hindsight. Not saying it's perfect for the future, but it's a decent idea, and more importantly it errs on the safe side.

Sure thing, buddy.

No need to argue anything, just go back and see what we said vs what happened. Or don't, because other folks in this thread who poked our eyes out over the past few months, have suddenly stopped doing so, and some of them got refunds afterward and I suppose tucked tail to save face.

They have made not one, or two, but millions of dollars.  I don't think stopping the train there is considered suffering by any stretch of the word.

Oh it's far more than just millions. Come up with a digit and then add 8 zeros to it.

But so? Who cares what they've done with their money /after/ it became their money. I'm more upset how they treated their customers (you guys) during it all, and the fact they failed to hold their word on key points--points which is what got them propped up to begin with. Network Protection, Modular Expansion, Taking care of their Batch 1 & 2 Customers.

Their hardware had a 900% markup on it. Nobody was complaining when they could order it, everyone was yelling "shutup and take my money". Jupiters' in-house cost is roughly a grand. I called that number before they even had chips in hand! Based it off of what I knew of PCB design, bulk ordering and assembly lines. Later on (December) found out that KNC's in-house value priced them at around a grand as well. Not far off am I? And I'm not the only one who knows their actual cost. There's some silent folks here who know.

Neptune I'm pegging at around 1,500 first batch.

*shrugs* You win some, you lose some. Sometimes objective analysis pays off.

I sure as hell didn't preorder anything with them, I knew the only "profitable" batches would be 2013 1&2, and nothing beyond that--unless BTC value went stupid crazy. A lot of the other 'smart sharks' in this thread made money mining and then sold the equipment and got out before the ship sank.

dropt
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 February 06, 2014, 06:35:35 PM

I sure as hell didn't preorder anything with them [...]

I didn't either.  *high-five*
ncs0ne
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software developer

 February 06, 2014, 06:48:57 PM

Since when is the link 'shipping' on kncminer's website redirecting to the default page ??

After refusing to change the delivery address and now this, I get more and more the impression they do not want to ship anything at all.

snapshot from 2013
http://web.archive.org/web/20130822171043/https://www.kncminer.com/pages/shipping

jelin1984
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 February 06, 2014, 06:49:01 PM

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else
Every Day Junglist
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 February 06, 2014, 07:16:39 PM

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

we all do..
MrPresident
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Think or swim.

 February 06, 2014, 08:05:29 PM

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

we all do..
Jelin...you sure about that?
Firsly, the upgrade modules are for Saturns and Mercuries.
Do you have a six-port controller, or the skills to install the ports to a controller board?
I could be wrong....   but somehow my spidey-senses tell me no.
....and by the time you disassemble everything(losing hashing time), drop it at the
local electronics store to pay someone to do it correctly...
You could lose several days of hashing time just waiting to pick up your controller board...(as the diff rises)
inn which case, you would be hard-pressed to ever make ROI on what it actually costed you to get them working on the Jupiter.
and if you try it yourself...  you risk the entire controller board not working, one mess-up, and no RMA.... then what?
You could be down for a long time trying to purchase another controller board.
It's best suited for Saturn and Mercury owners, who would like to upgrade.
Unless you have excellent soldering skills, or outrageous luck, I'd re-evaluate the idea.

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dropt
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 February 06, 2014, 09:51:44 PM

I want upgraded module card for Jupiter

Nothing else

we all do..
Jelin...you sure about that?
Firsly, the upgrade modules are for Saturns and Mercuries.
Do you have a six-port controller, or the skills to install the ports to a controller board?
I could be wrong....   but somehow my spidey-senses tell me no.
....and by the time you disassemble everything(losing hashing time), drop it at the
local electronics store to pay someone to do it correctly...
You could lose several days of hashing time just waiting to pick up your controller board...(as the diff rises)
inn which case, you would be hard-pressed to ever make ROI on what it actually costed you to get them working on the Jupiter.
and if you try it yourself...  you risk the entire controller board not working, one mess-up, and no RMA.... then what?
You could be down for a long time trying to purchase another controller board.
It's best suited for Saturn and Mercury owners, who would like to upgrade.
Unless you have excellent soldering skills, or outrageous luck, I'd re-evaluate the idea.

Somehow my spidey-senses tell me you have no idea what you're talking about.
Biodom
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 February 06, 2014, 10:09:00 PM

Wall Street Jornal piece shows that KnC made 15mil profit on 75 mil in sales last year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/06/cold-virtual-cash-a-bitcoin-mining-center-for-sweden/
These are strange figures because they collected 28-34 mil on preorders, but hardly expensed anything yet on Neptune. If it is so, then they were \$20 mil "in the hole' before collecting Neptune preorders. Alternatively, they were probably already in the black with Jupiters and then used at least half of Neptune money to make a prepayment or payment on the datacenter and/or unreleased Jupiters.

If it is so, it would mean that  plan B was their original intention all along.
I will wait until i hear about hosting arrangements, then decide.
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