Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Phoenix1969]

[rambling]

So after your Neptune(s) and Jupiters are worthless, can KnC count on you being a cloudhashing customer?

if the offer is looking good, sure, but I doubt it... we aren't quite 1/2 way into q1, and the competition has only just begun to deliver...
It would need be a mighty good deal, but I wouldn't be saying this if btc went to 5 grand next month either.
That question really can't be answered until the time comes.... TIME.

[McKinley]

Its like they are saying:
"if you bought an upgradeable Mercury and you didn't get modules when we sold them for 7 minutes last year, well screw you!"

...

Upgradability would have been perfect. But since they announced the modules a few hours before they went to sale i read the news after they were already sold out. Since then i set up my phone with a big sounding alarm for any KNC news, but nothing any more.
Tomorow i'll be away for a week. I bet that will be the time when something is happening.

btw, my theory on what happened:
As written here, KNC didn't put any 28nm for themselves and didn't sell any. So their supply chain is broken. Considering that they want to stay in business this can mean there was some major fuckup. And if you have fuckups and a reputation to hold on to, admitting it is honest, but not exactly your best PR strategy.

[soy]

[rambling]

So after your Neptune(s) and Jupiters are worthless, can KnC count on you being a cloudhashing customer?

if the offer is looking good, sure, but I doubt it... we aren't quite 1/2 way into q1, and the competition has only just begun to deliver...
It would need be a mighty good deal, but I wouldn't be saying this if btc went to 5 grand next month either.
That question really can't be answered until the time comes.... TIME.

$5000 btc?  Well, the world at large saw bitcoin in 2013.  Governments saw their fiat dumped into bitcoin when there was trouble at home.  Lets say for the sake of argument that a nation's banks own that government.  That example of FDIC, created in 1933 to give individuals confidence to take any fiat out from under the matress and trust banks and savings accounts again, that after the crash of 1929 and the great depression of 1930, and then more recently President Bush's people having the laws changed that certain risky instruments get paid off by FDIC first before individuals in the case of a bank failing (likely leaving nothing to pay out to individuals), makes me think that if he could have had a law put on the books making it a legal requirement that the wealthy remain wealthy and the poor remain poor, he would have.  In that light, since we are supposing that banks own their governments, and since there is a flow of that government's fiat into bitcoin when there's trouble, governments will make it illegal to buy bitcoin, e.g. Russia yesterday.  So, how can a bitcoin ever be worth 173,850 rubles ($5000)?

[WastedLTC]

I'm holding my neptune orders....     no reason to cancel right now.    btc hits $250 then maybe  

I see plan b as a step in the right direction and the news shows how much faith they have in BTC, they could have sit back and pumped out 28nm chips to customers watching the money flow in and not invest anymore time and money into BTC infrastructure.   Its a gamble for them to do that where pumping out chips was a sure thing.

[DPoS]

$5000 BTC?

Sure $5000 to buy and $500 to sell if Coinbase has their way...

[The Avenger]

I'm holding my neptune orders....     no reason to cancel right now.    btc hits $250 then maybe  

I see plan b as a step in the right direction and the news shows how much faith they have in BTC, they could have sit back and pumped out 28nm chips to customers watching the money flow in and not invest anymore time and money into BTC infrastructure.   Its a gamble for them to do that where pumping out chips was a sure thing.

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

KNC might be giving the Swedish government the power to do major damage to the bitcoin, if they see fit. Which is terrible. If knc are so clever, they already know this. Which means they are only in it for the short term gain, pump and dump, which again, is not a step in the right direction. It's terrible and damaging to bitcoin.

[DPoS]

 so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

the exchanges are in a far more leveraged position to sway the currency than any mining group even if they were mining all 3600 coins each day

[midyatspor]

I am new to mining and ordered a Neptune but I have a feeling that we might just get our money back by mining with this machine if we are lucky.

I don't like KNC opening their data center but if you listen to them they said that Neptune would be the last machine sold to retail customers due to home power requirements and that the next generation machines would be hosted. I would have liked to hear about the data center after Neptune Product or if they feel like Neptune is delayed they should have given us the option to switch over to jupiter machines now and sell us the equivalent hashing power, don't mind having 5-6 Jupiter machines now and don't mind paying the difference.

Another option I would have liked is, have KNC offer  Jupiter Machines only to Neptune buyers with agreement that the Neptune Buyers would NOT ask for refunds for their Neptune Machine.

[WastedLTC]

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.






 

[jelin1984]

If not these week knc does not have news for upgraded module

They do not have never

[soy]

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.






 

Exactly what is a 51% attack and  how does it win?  Say two major isolated pools evolve and one pulls the plug on the other.  The remaining major pool now having >51% share of the mining could fork to what kind of advantage?

[matthewh3]

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.






 

Exactly what is a 51% attack and  how does it win?  Say two major isolated pools evolve and one pulls the plug on the other.  The remaining major pool now having >51% share of the mining could fork to what kind of advantage?

This is just noise but here you go - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+51%25+attack

[The Avenger]

Is Sunday the day when everyone forgets what bitcoin is about?  

the exchanges are in a far more leveraged position to sway the currency than any mining group even if they were mining all 3600 coins each day

Surely you aren't suggesting that if a centralised organisation controlled 100% of bitcoin network, things would work great? That a, let's call it, Central Bank, could be trusted to handle the network fairly for everyone and not manipulate it for easy gain, political reasons etc? That seems to 100% miss the point of why bitcoin was invented.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.

If someone had a massive share of the network hashrate (which is bad), the best things they could do is spread it over "pools" - not "pool". Spread it over as many pools as possible. Certainly not putting all that power in the hands of an "appropriate pool" (singular). Although someone in it for the money would probably find the pool where they can make the most money and point everything at that, just for sake of profit and damn the fundamental ideas behind bitcoin.

Pools are not a great idea, as they centralise and put too much power in the hands of a few. Why was there such a panic a few weeks ago when ghash got so big it looked like they were going to take 51%? Because it's a bad thing.

Maybe I've missed the point of what you guys were saying, but it seems to me the best situation for bitcoin is where a massive amount of miners all around the world are controlling the hashrate, not some centralised body, mining group or pool. The fact that very large pools and massive centralised mining monopolies have evolved is just the by-product of greed and not healthy for a decentralised crypto. If bitcoin fails, it will probably be because of this. KNC are doing their bit in fucking up bitcoin with their greed driven cloud hashing monopoly plans, as far as I'm concerned.

[DPoS]

Surely you aren't suggesting that if a centralised organisation controlled 100% of bitcoin network, things would work great? That a, let's call it, Central Bank, could be trusted to handle the network fairly for everyone and not manipulate it for easy gain, political reasons etc? That seems to 100% miss the point of why bitcoin was invented.

I am talking price, you are talking destruction.   Of course destruction leads to $0. 

[soy]

Is Sunday the day when everyone forgets what bitcoin is about?  

the exchanges are in a far more leveraged position to sway the currency than any mining group even if they were mining all 3600 coins each day

Surely you aren't suggesting that if a centralised organisation controlled 100% of bitcoin network, things would work great? That a, let's call it, Central Bank, could be trusted to handle the network fairly for everyone and not manipulate it for easy gain, political reasons etc? That seems to 100% miss the point of why bitcoin was invented.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.

If someone had a massive share of the network hashrate (which is bad), the best things they could do is spread it over "pools" - not "pool" - as many pools as possible. Certainly not putting all that power in the hands of an "appropriate pool" (singular). Although someone in it for the money would probably find the pool where they can make the most and point everything at that, just for sake of profit and damn the fundamental ideas behind bitcoin.

Pools are not a great idea, as they centralise and put too much power in the hands of a few. Why was there such a panic a few weeks ago when ghash got so big it looked like they were going to take 51%? Because it's a bad thing.

Maybe I've missed the point of what you guys were saying, but it seems to me the best situation for bitcoin is where a massive amount of miners all around the world are controlling the hashrate, not some centralised body, mining group or pool. The fact that very large pools and massive centralised mining monopolies have evolved is just the by-product of greed and not healthy for a decentralised crypto.

Nothing to disagree about there.  But why then did KnC opt to build a miner that alone would need 15% more current than a US 20 amp circuit can handle.  Since US circuits, plug-in, excepting specialized circuits for driers or ovens, take a max of 20 amps they put it out of reach without extraordinary measures, e.g. calling in a licensed electrician to rewire the home.  They could have built 20nm miners of a size that draw one quarter the current.  Such a design decision, typically won't work in a US home, works against decentralized mining.  So, why did they go that way?

Come on, tell there's no Santa Clause.

[bkminer]

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.
 

Of course you're right IF each owner of their own little hash rate can pick a pool of their own choosing and trust that the owners of the equipment won't decide to use that power for some purpose.  The way cex.io works is seriously not good, but still if KnC lets everyone configure a pool, who's to say they, or even someone attacking the facility wouldn't re-route all of that hashing power to one place for a specific purpose. 

To me hosted mining is I take my 4 Jupiter's to a co-location facility with a machine to run P2Pool and have full KVM access and hopefully full physical access when I need it.

[Searing]

I'm holding my neptune orders....     no reason to cancel right now.    btc hits $250 then maybe  

I see plan b as a step in the right direction and the news shows how much faith they have in BTC, they could have sit back and pumped out 28nm chips to customers watching the money flow in and not invest anymore time and money into BTC infrastructure.   Its a gamble for them to do that where pumping out chips was a sure thing.

yeah that is true enough whatever you think about their methods/planning they are hanging their butt out there with the rest of us....they coulda just made
the bitcoin shovels and sat back and turned it into $$ ASAP

Searing

[rgiskard]

I did pretty well out of the Jupiters. I also ordered Neptunes. But when the silence became deafening I decided to get a refund. This was a about 2 days before the datacentre shenanigans. I think it was the right decision. Just too many suspect elements to 'Plan B'. KnC have lost their transparency. I think it will all end in tears. Happy to be wrong, but in the mean time, I'll content myself with Jupiters beavering away...

[rgiskard]

I did pretty well out of the Jupiters. I also ordered Neptunes. But when the silence became deafening I decided to get a refund. This was a about 2 days before the datacentre shenanigans. I think it was the right decision. Just too many suspect elements to 'Plan B'. KnC have lost their transparency. I think it will all end in tears. Happy to be wrong, but in the mean time, I'll content myself with Jupiters beavering away...

did u get a response or refund yet?

Yep, money has come through.

[murraypaul]

If that's the case then fuck their hosted 3TH plan B bullshit.  If the neptune delivery slips I am getting a refund and buying BTC.

Going on previous form, by the time they actually slip, they will declare that your order is 'in production', and refuse to refund you.