Bitcoin Forum
November 17, 2017, 07:58:49 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 ... 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 [183] 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 ... 2138 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006389 times)
kano
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2268


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
July 15, 2013, 09:30:43 PM
 #3641

Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...

Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
Watch out for sharp knives in the kitchen also ...

My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
1510948729
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1510948729

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1510948729
Reply with quote  #2

1510948729
Report to moderator
1510948729
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1510948729

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1510948729
Reply with quote  #2

1510948729
Report to moderator
1510948729
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1510948729

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1510948729
Reply with quote  #2

1510948729
Report to moderator
Coinlancer is Disrupting the Freelance marketplace!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
bitpop
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2184


https://keybase.io/bitpop


View Profile WWW
July 15, 2013, 09:55:01 PM
 #3642

Damn im going to be sticking these all around the house then. Especially the kitchen, the best amps.

Reputation  |  PGP  |  DigitalOcean  |  TorGuard  |  Ethereum Classic
Bitcoin: 3DSh6AnmvBpDJFUz2mnLirMLmTMcFs9nDm
Bitmessage: BM-2cXN9j8NFT2n1FxDVQ6HQq4D4MZuuaBFyb
Mota
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 800


View Profile
July 15, 2013, 09:57:01 PM
 #3643

Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...

Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
Watch out for sharp knives in the kitchen also ...

My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"
That is the most stupid question ever. Do you know how many people die in Germany alone because of electirc shocks?
Germany has a standard voltage of 230V, "Starkstrom" has up to 1000V and is used by a dryer outlet. 600V can effectively reduce the resistance of the skin and increase lethality by a lot. And most people who died did not even have that high voltage...

Who wants to be a billionaire? Me!
You could help Wink 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp
kano
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2268


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
July 15, 2013, 11:49:32 PM
 #3644

Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...

Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
Watch out for sharp knives in the kitchen also ...

My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"
That is the most stupid question ever. Do you know how many people die in Germany alone because of electirc shocks?
Germany has a standard voltage of 230V, "Starkstrom" has up to 1000V and is used by a dryer outlet. 600V can effectively reduce the resistance of the skin and increase lethality by a lot. And most people who died did not even have that high voltage...
240V here in Aus

You do of course realise that the higher voltage actually means you are less likely to die from electrocution right?
Cos the current is thus lower.
It's the current that kills you, not the voltage.

... I also remember my older brother sticking a screw driver in a power point when we were very young ... he's now >50 Smiley

Yes electricity can kill you, so can a chainsaw, driving on the road, holding your breath under water, catching an aeroplane ...

You really think bitpop is a complete idiot? (I don't) Coz that's what's implied by the "DON'T DO IT" silliness.

Sounds as silly as a Starbucks hot cup warning ... Tongue

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 15, 2013, 11:54:17 PM
 #3645

Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...

Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..

most dryer outlets are 240 V.  which is ideally what you want.  i installed a 240 V receptacle precisely for the avalons and they're running great.
Kuroth
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile WWW
July 16, 2013, 12:04:49 AM
 #3646

Dryer Outlets?HuhHuh?     Roll Eyes

Mota
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 800


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 12:07:25 AM
 #3647

Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...

Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
Watch out for sharp knives in the kitchen also ...

My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"
That is the most stupid question ever. Do you know how many people die in Germany alone because of electirc shocks?
Germany has a standard voltage of 230V, "Starkstrom" has up to 1000V and is used by a dryer outlet. 600V can effectively reduce the resistance of the skin and increase lethality by a lot. And most people who died did not even have that high voltage...
240V here in Aus

You do of course realise that the higher voltage actually means you are less likely to die from electrocution right?
Cos the current is thus lower.
It's the current that kills you, not the voltage.

... I also remember my older brother sticking a screw driver in a power point when we were very young ... he's now >50 Smiley

Yes electricity can kill you, so can a chainsaw, driving on the road, holding your breath under water, catching an aeroplane ...

You really think bitpop is a complete idiot? (I don't) Coz that's what's implied by the "DON'T DO IT" silliness.

Sounds as silly as a Starbucks hot cup warning ... Tongue
... a hot cup does not kill... I got electrocuted too and lived, but that is not the point. the point is that it CAN go very wrong and it does in about 3% of the cases with lower voltage...
The lethality of an electric shock is dependent on several variables:

    Current. The higher the current, the more likely it is lethal. Since current is proportional to voltage when resistance is fixed (ohm's law), high voltage is an indirect risk for producing higher currents.
    Duration. The longer the duration, the more likely it is lethal—safety switches may limit time of current flow
    Pathway. If current flows through the heart muscle, it is more likely to be lethal.
    High voltage (over about 600 volts). In addition to greater current flow, high voltage may cause dielectric breakdown at the skin, thus lowering skin resistance and allowing further increased current flow.
and that is from wikipedia, for your reading pleasure regarding higher voltage -> lower current.
Stromweg    Accidents whole     Acc. deadly    rel. Verteilung(insgesamt)    rel. Verteilung(tödlich)    Lethality
Hand-Hand    2891       82                             77,3 %                        48,5%                            2 ,84 %
Hand-Fuß             349           19                              9,2 %                         11,2 %                      5,44 %
Hand-Füße    294               18                            7,7 %                         10,7 %                      6,12 %
Hände-Füße    106               20                           2,8 %                            11,8 %                     18,67 %
Verkürzte Stromwege Oberkörper
(wie Hand-Brust, oder  Brust-Rücken)
                    108             30                             3,0 %                        17,8 %                       27,78 %
Insgesamt    3748    169                            100 %                          100 %                         4,51 %

I am too lazy to translate all of it, but you should get the gist...  DON'T try to play with currents if you have no practical knowledge of the matter...


Who wants to be a billionaire? Me!
You could help Wink 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp
jmaccoin
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 02:16:09 AM
 #3648

Dryer outlets in North America are just two 15 amp circuits with one neutral. 180 degrees out of phase so you can still run 120 volt items with the same wiring as if you were running them 240v. Perfect for running 4 jupiters.
Vycid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


♫ the AM bear who cares ♫


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 03:38:10 AM
 #3649

If you have ever seen a GPU die, then you know the shaders constitute the bulk of the chip.  > 80% of it.

Similar logic exists with ASICs, and based upon die shots of Avalon, BFL, and Bitfury processors, I would put the non-SHA256 components at 5% or so in total area.


How do you think different product tiers in GPUs exist?  7830 / 7850 / 7870 etc.  The are ALL the same die, just the lower-end products have various shaders turned off in post-processing because there are defects in there.  Even with this post-processing, the simple laws of IC manufacturing apply - bigger dies = BAD for yields.
So what that shaders consist of 80% of the area?

They are still on the one single clock tree and the one single JTAG chain.

Please stop digging yourself deeper. You've made a methodological mistake that invalidates your results. Just admit it to yourself.

I have historical evidence here to back this up.  BFL has run into these problems as well (even if you hate BFL for their business practices, realize they didn't manufacture the chip themselves).

It's why you see the wide range in GH/s out of their single chips.  It is also why you will note that since they started selling their chips, they have different bins at different prices.  We don't know what their yield is, but they have a substantial number of lower-grade chips that cannot hit design targets due to chip defects.

Certainly BFL has encountered issues with killer defects on their chips. Know what they do? They disable the regions with defects and bin them. Suddenly there's not much correlation between yield and die size anymore.

(Intel does this also, and their chips are *much, much* more complex. Then again, if you ever had to deal with those fuckers, you'd understand how they get their defect concentrations down. "Our spec is zero defects, hurr hurr hurr... Your recipe creates 2 defects per wafer..."

Sorry, sorta got an axe to grind with those guys)

Anyway, here's to hoping that KNC is at least as competent as BFL.

erk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:09:45 AM
 #3650



Certainly BFL has encountered issues with killer defects on their chips. Know what they do? They disable the regions with defects and bin them. Suddenly there's not much correlation between yield and die size anymore.

(Intel does this also, and their chips are *much, much* more complex. Then again, if you ever had to deal with those fuckers, you'd understand how they get their defect concentrations down. "Our spec is zero defects, hurr hurr hurr... Your recipe creates 2 defects per wafer..."

Sorry, sorta got an axe to grind with those guys)

Anyway, here's to hoping that KNC is at least as competent as BFL.
Except when you read the threads in this forum where people have changed firmware and activated all the engines on their BFL chips, the results have been really good, so much for that theory!

Vycid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


♫ the AM bear who cares ♫


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:11:11 AM
 #3651



Certainly BFL has encountered issues with killer defects on their chips. Know what they do? They disable the regions with defects and bin them. Suddenly there's not much correlation between yield and die size anymore.

(Intel does this also, and their chips are *much, much* more complex. Then again, if you ever had to deal with those fuckers, you'd understand how they get their defect concentrations down. "Our spec is zero defects, hurr hurr hurr... Your recipe creates 2 defects per wafer..."

Sorry, sorta got an axe to grind with those guys)

Anyway, here's to hoping that KNC is at least as competent as BFL.
Except when you read the threads in this forum where people have changed firmware and activated all the engines on their BFL chips, the results have been really good, so much for that theory!



I assure you defects are quite real. I looked at one today under a scanning electron microscope. I think it winked at me. Or maybe that was the astigmatism...

Clearly, BFL is just as incompetent at binning their chips as they are at making deadlines.

erk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:15:15 AM
 #3652


I assure you defects are quite real. I looked at one today under a scanning electron microscope. I think it winked at me. Or maybe that was the astigmatism...

Clearly, BFL is just as incompetent at binning their chips as they are at making deadlines.
BFL don't make the chips, and they are only 65nm,  I can just imagine what you would find on a 28nm chip.
Vycid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


♫ the AM bear who cares ♫


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:20:13 AM
 #3653


I assure you defects are quite real. I looked at one today under a scanning electron microscope. I think it winked at me. Or maybe that was the astigmatism...

Clearly, BFL is just as incompetent at binning their chips as they are at making deadlines.
BFL don't make the chips, and they are only 65nm,  I can just imagine what you would find on a 28nm chip.


The foundry is being too aggressive with the chip binning, then. They're probably defect mapping by using a tool like one of these:

http://www.kla-tencor.com/front-end-defect-inspection/puma-family.html

Any die with a defect gets knocked down a bin, and the corresponding engine gets disabled. Two defects, another bin... and so on. That's going to be overly aggressive, since not all of those defects will be killer.

What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.

Obviously, a 90nm defect in a 28nm process would be a lot more devastating than it would be in a 65nm chip, so a higher proportion of the defects might prove to be killer. I always thought 28nm was an odd choice... why not something a little more mature, like 45nm? They'd have saved millions on the mask set alone.

erk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:31:23 AM
 #3654



What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.

I don't understand the point you are making at all. With the exception of the MiniRig, BFL don't run their chips flat out, that's why speed bumps are available over the base unit. The MiniRig has been reported at being 480GH/s instead of 500GH/s but I don't know how many people experienced that, I have only read the one report.
Vycid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


♫ the AM bear who cares ♫


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:37:44 AM
 #3655



What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.

I don't understand the point you are making at all. With the exception of the MiniRig, BFL don't run their chips flat out, that's why speed bumps are available over the base unit. The MiniRig has been reported at being 480GH/s instead of 500GH/s but I don't know how many people experienced that, I have only read the one report.

Running your chips below their maximum stable clock is a very different thing from completely disabling functional engines. One may be an optimal trade-off with power consumption and chip lifetime; the other simply wastes potential.

erk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:41:45 AM
 #3656



What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.

I don't understand the point you are making at all. With the exception of the MiniRig, BFL don't run their chips flat out, that's why speed bumps are available over the base unit. The MiniRig has been reported at being 480GH/s instead of 500GH/s but I don't know how many people experienced that, I have only read the one report.

Running your chips below their maximum stable clock is a very different thing from completely disabling functional engines. One may be an optimal trade-off with power consumption and chip lifetime; the other simply wastes potential.
No kidding, that's why people are having fun unlocking the potential with firmware upgrades!
Vycid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


♫ the AM bear who cares ♫


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:43:57 AM
 #3657



What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.

I don't understand the point you are making at all. With the exception of the MiniRig, BFL don't run their chips flat out, that's why speed bumps are available over the base unit. The MiniRig has been reported at being 480GH/s instead of 500GH/s but I don't know how many people experienced that, I have only read the one report.

Running your chips below their maximum stable clock is a very different thing from completely disabling functional engines. One may be an optimal trade-off with power consumption and chip lifetime; the other simply wastes potential.
No kidding, that's why people are having fun unlocking the potential with firmware upgrades!


And why I'm baffled, since BFL has obviously not binned them correctly.

BFL has been selling their round of loose chips at different prices based on the bin (A/B/C/D). If they are being too aggressive with their binning, they are actually getting paid less than they could be. That seems very un-BFL-like. Curious.

minternj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:45:37 AM
 #3658

Back to the topic of KNC. Did they ever say how many chips they have on order? Wondering how they are still selling miners on their website saying shipping in september.

Warning about Nitrogensports.eu
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709114.0
Vycid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


♫ the AM bear who cares ♫


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:47:43 AM
 #3659

Back to the topic of KNC. Did they ever say how many chips they have on order? Wondering how they are still selling miners on their website saying shipping in september.

Possibly they ordered a chip surplus with the intention of selling loose chips a la Avalon/BFL if they couldn't make up the difference with miners.

minternj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 05:02:28 AM
 #3660

Interesting for them to go balls to the wall with chip ordering. I guess they are pretty damn confident in the design huh? Avalon and bfl loose chips  sales were not in their initial orders. They were placed after they actualyl had the chips in hand. Wondering how KNC is planning for current and future orders since with a 28nm its not like you could call up the foundry and get more chips in a week or a month. Maybe they should update thier shipping date on the website for new orders?

Warning about Nitrogensports.eu
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709114.0
Pages: « 1 ... 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 [183] 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 ... 2138 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!