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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011182 times)
Anenome5
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July 28, 2013, 06:55:45 AM
 #4401

I was under the impression that since they aren't doing a 'pure asic' but just FPGA>ASIC (and already proved their FPGA) there is a chance they are just funneling this through the fab and there is no 'tape-out' party that they care about

I could be completely wrong but that is the impression that I get
They're doing a standard cell ASIC, not a mere FPGA copy over. It's not quite full custom, like Bitfury's however, but it's next best thing.

The reason they can pull it off in the time frame they do is because they're able to access Orsoc's existing contractual agreements with the fabs they usually work with rather than starting from scratch like the other ASIC providers so far.

Frankly I'd like to hear it from them when they receive chips, that's going to be a gigantic milestone that will make everyone a lot less nervous, even for people like me that have a lot of trust in their effort. If they don't receive chips in august that's a huge problem for everyone, because that will mean cancelled orders for them and a lot of refunds. They've got a fiduciary responsibility to people whose money they've already received, but they have to balance that against whatever risks of informing their competitors on what they're doing, but I don't really see how that can really hurt them.

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Might be an obvious question, but without hosting by KNC could it still be possible to mine in their pool?
No, they will not allow this.

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kingcoin
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July 28, 2013, 07:04:11 AM
 #4402

They're doing a standard cell ASIC, not a mere FPGA copy over.

Which ASIC vendor and which process?
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July 28, 2013, 07:07:50 AM
 #4403

No why would you want to?

Might be an obvious question, but without hosting by KNC could it still be possible to mine in their pool?

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Anenome5
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July 28, 2013, 07:11:01 AM
 #4404

They're doing a standard cell ASIC, not a mere FPGA copy over.

Which ASIC vendor and which process?
Not sure either's been announced. But they have said it's a standard cell ASIC and not a mere FPGA copy-over.

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July 28, 2013, 01:03:16 PM
 #4405

Unfortunately, as far as I know we are still waiting to find out the tape-out date.   Huh
That's their business, I would be surprised if the bothered to tell you.



I would think paying customers would get some updates.. So far all I heard about was a hosting plan and you can spend more money to upgrade ..


Since when do Intel or nVidia tell their customers tape out dates?

ALL the time they give tape-out dates.  Shareholders like this info to keep from bailing on the stock.
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July 28, 2013, 01:18:43 PM
 #4406

Unfortunately, as far as I know we are still waiting to find out the tape-out date.   Huh
That's their business, I would be surprised if the bothered to tell you.



I would think paying customers would get some updates.. So far all I heard about was a hosting plan and you can spend more money to upgrade ..


Since when do Intel or nVidia tell their customers tape out dates?

ALL the time they give tape-out dates.  Shareholders like this info to keep from bailing on the stock.

Perhaps, but I think you keep forgetting that this is a 'formula one' race to the finish line, of which such information, and the precise time of it's arrival, thus being a milestine pinpointing how far the project is progressing, is highly competitor sensitive, albeit interesting for those with vested interests...

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kingcoin
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July 28, 2013, 01:35:59 PM
 #4407

They're doing a standard cell ASIC, not a mere FPGA copy over.

Which ASIC vendor and which process?
Not sure either's been announced. But they have said it's a standard cell ASIC and not a mere FPGA copy-over.

The only info I've found is that ORSoC has some deal with eASIC which is more FPGA like than ASIC despite the name.

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July 28, 2013, 01:40:13 PM
 #4408

They're doing a standard cell ASIC, not a mere FPGA copy over.

Which ASIC vendor and which process?
Not sure either's been announced. But they have said it's a standard cell ASIC and not a mere FPGA copy-over.

The only info I've found is that ORSoC has some deal with eASIC which is more FPGA like than ASIC despite the name.

eASIC? they're supposedly working on 28nm chips for ActiveMining as well. Interesting.

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July 28, 2013, 02:07:23 PM
 #4409

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.
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July 28, 2013, 02:24:32 PM
 #4410

Perhaps, but I think you keep forgetting that this is a 'formula one' race to the finish line, of which such information, and the precise time of it's arrival, thus being a milestine pinpointing how far the project is progressing, is highly competitor sensitive, albeit interesting for those with vested interests...

This sounds like Josh Zerlan months ago, explaining why he could not explain why BFL was missing the delivery dates...
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July 28, 2013, 02:40:58 PM
 #4411

Perhaps, but I think you keep forgetting that this is a 'formula one' race to the finish line, of which such information, and the precise time of it's arrival, thus being a milestine pinpointing how far the project is progressing, is highly competitor sensitive, albeit interesting for those with vested interests...

This sounds like Josh Zerlan months ago, explaining why he could not explain why BFL was missing the delivery dates...

Err no...think about it!


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kingcoin
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July 28, 2013, 03:17:23 PM
 #4412

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?
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July 28, 2013, 03:30:41 PM
 #4413

Unfortunately, as far as I know we are still waiting to find out the tape-out date.   Huh
That's their business, I would be surprised if the bothered to tell you.



That's easy for you to say:


I would love to order a KNCminer, but I am waiting until I see working proof from end users who have received their units, just like I did with BFL.  Until actual real world test results come in, you can't plan your rig effectively.


Agree, even the boss say the worst time is October
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July 28, 2013, 03:32:31 PM
 #4414

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?

If it's a private contract, they can only go so far detailing specifics before breaking NDAs, they said this much at the open day. It's standard business practice.

Their largest ASIC had 178 cores from the top of my head, and they wouldn't say what it was for because of the NDA in place. It's touched on within the open day report...

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SebastianJu
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July 28, 2013, 04:52:10 PM
 #4415

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange, that it will take 20% more hashing power delivered to customers to maintain that increase level. In other words, if the diff increases, so does the need amount of delivered hash power to make the same result. With that in mind, there will be a leveling, or slowly getting smaller & smaller % increase as the cloud grows, again, because it will take more & more units delivered to effect the same result. But there will be a few larger ones soon, surely with all the massive deliveries pending, but all I'm saying is that there eventually will be a smaller and smaller rise in the difflevel , and sometimes go down, as happened in the past. Your ability to mine for profit will depend on your willingness to re-invest in bigger, better, faster, and MORE EFFICIENT machines as they become available. Choose wisely Grasshopper
 Wink


Youre right... paying the half price for the same hashrate but getting it some time later will turn out a worse buy. My new best liked calculator is this one: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
At the moment time is an even bigger factor one thinks. 66% rising difficulty per month. That is huge.
gateway
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July 28, 2013, 05:03:02 PM
 #4416

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange, that it will take 20% more hashing power delivered to customers to maintain that increase level. In other words, if the diff increases, so does the need amount of delivered hash power to make the same result. With that in mind, there will be a leveling, or slowly getting smaller & smaller % increase as the cloud grows, again, because it will take more & more units delivered to effect the same result. But there will be a few larger ones soon, surely with all the massive deliveries pending, but all I'm saying is that there eventually will be a smaller and smaller rise in the difflevel , and sometimes go down, as happened in the past. Your ability to mine for profit will depend on your willingness to re-invest in bigger, better, faster, and MORE EFFICIENT machines as they become available. Choose wisely Grasshopper
 Wink


Youre right... paying the half price for the same hashrate but getting it some time later will turn out a worse buy. My new best liked calculator is this one: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
At the moment time is an even bigger factor one thinks. 66% rising difficulty per month. That is huge.

Ya nice tool to calculate with btw select the BFF mini rig which costs 22k and see how much your roi ..

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July 28, 2013, 05:53:02 PM
 #4417

hmm going to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ this morning and selecting knc Jupiter and sept with all the defaults.. well you can see doesn't look so good right now to the guestimate of diff increase.  I hope we dont see 62% increases.. time will tell since diff is currently changing around every 11 days or so thats about 3 more diff changes before sept 1 give or take.

So yes my questions yesterday about tape-out or more transparency of progress is quite important, I know their stance seems to be limited updates here and their and well nothing in the last few emails going out has made me feel any better about my purchase and with less than 5-6 weeks till sept well you might start to understand my concern, esp if you switch the month to oct using the calculator above.

Of course I do understand we have few variables we do not have much control over, increase in hash to the network, diff % change every 11 or so days and price of btc.

So yes someone from KNC start to shed some info, you already announced that you are shipping in sept, so their is no secret to hide unless time delays which then would cause mass issues and quite a bit of refund requests.

sorry I dont mean to sound grim just look at some numbers as an investor like I do with my stocks and sharing my opinion (which I hope isn't right)

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July 28, 2013, 06:01:48 PM
 #4418

hmm going to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ this morning and selecting knc Jupiter and sept with all the defaults.. well you can see doesn't look so good right now to the guestimate of diff increase.  I hope we dont see 62% increases.. time will tell since diff is currently changing around every 11 days or so thats about 3 more diff changes before sept 1 give or take.

The 62% is the rise the difficulty took in the last 30 days, the stats for this is in the upper left. And i fear it might get even worse. I mean avalon batch 3 miners will ship in the next weeks for sure, the hundred thousand of avalon chips will be shipped in the next weeks, those chips can be overclocked from 282mhz to 450 mhz with burnin's design, which means an even greater rise of difficulty. And then there are all the new chips that should come out. Im not even remembering all the new companies claiming to bring out chips in the next months. It might become hard.
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July 28, 2013, 06:13:07 PM
 #4419

hmm going to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ this morning and selecting knc Jupiter and sept with all the defaults.. well you can see doesn't look so good right now to the guestimate of diff increase.  I hope we dont see 62% increases.. time will tell since diff is currently changing around every 11 days or so thats about 3 more diff changes before sept 1 give or take.

The 62% is the rise the difficulty took in the last 30 days, the stats for this is in the upper left. And i fear it might get even worse. I mean avalon batch 3 miners will ship in the next weeks for sure, the hundred thousand of avalon chips will be shipped in the next weeks, those chips can be overclocked from 282mhz to 450 mhz with burnin's design, which means an even greater rise of difficulty. And then there are all the new chips that should come out. Im not even remembering all the new companies claiming to bring out chips in the next months. It might become hard.

Pretty soon its where you will need 1Th/s to make revenue and well that all depends on the price of the hardware which will have to really really start to come down for ROI or people will not buy these products.  I truly hope people are not buying bfl mini's at 22k still..

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July 28, 2013, 06:33:03 PM
 #4420

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?

If it's a private contract, they can only go so far detailing specifics before breaking NDAs, they said this much at the open day. It's standard business practice.

Their largest ASIC had 178 cores from the top of my head, and they wouldn't say what it was for because of the NDA in place. It's touched on within the open day report...

Most established vendors (like TSMC, UMC, IBM, etc) does not require an NDA to disclose a client partnership, especially not on a mature technology like 28nm...
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