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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008870 times)
Anenome5
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July 20, 2013, 08:14:53 PM
 #4001

On a slightly different track: What about KnC making second generation USB miners? USB 3.0 specs, 0.9A, 1+GHs, priced at around 50-80 dollars. Would it be feasible with regard to production costs, power consumption, heat dissipation?
If yes, that would be a nice entry-level alternative miner to Erupter and K1, which would still be useful at higher difficulties, while promoting decentralisation of hashing. And a great gifting gadget. Smiley
Won't happen for a couple reasons. One, they don't want the shipping and support headache of having thousands of customers buying a cheap device. Secondly, their chip isn't conducive to USB mining--it's large, huge power draw and heat-spreading needs. The two philosophies go hand in hand.

I did not mean the chip that they are currently developing, but another one, which they could develop in parallel, but still on 26nm process.
Why do that and achieve only a support and shipping headache? It costs a lot more to support and ship a $70 device than a $7000 device, because the former has 100 times the number of customers compared to the latter on a dollar-by-dollar basis. If you want to turn them into BFL, then yeah, keep suggesting it.

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ujka
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July 20, 2013, 08:32:20 PM
 #4002

On a slightly different track: What about KnC making second generation USB miners? USB 3.0 specs, 0.9A, 1+GHs, priced at around 50-80 dollars.
They are in a 'bussiness' of making hardware for 'professional' miners.
Quote
We are selling professional devices to professional miners.
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July 20, 2013, 08:32:47 PM
 #4003

All you got to do people is ask..  Now would all the Trolls go away..   Silly Trolls, Tricks are for Kids..




Hi
 
We are glad the picture has sparked a debate but what I can assure you is that the picture shows the die running at 125 degrees C. if it looks warmer to the human eye we are sorry but its not.
The thermal image is an absolute worst case scenario and one that will never happen if the chips is running in normal conditions. When the chips designers produce these images they have to use worst case all others cases are irrelevant. What the drawing shows is that even at 125C we are able to cool that much heat with our heat sink, which is a slightly modified http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/cpu/472/freezer-i30.html?c=2181 our device still works normally.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

titomane
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July 20, 2013, 08:37:18 PM
 #4004

I think
223 isnt Centigrade are Fahrenheit .  

   223F are 106C.
Thought about that but it's really doubtful. Freezing air coming in at 25F? Nah. We could use an explanation from Knc on what this represents and what's being assumed in this simulation, but I doubt it's that.

The heatsink is always 25 °. It is very rare. Would have to have different temperatures, depending on the distance to the chip.

 In the news 22. They said chip  would 2046 balls
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-22
and now 2797 is a significant change. A to be.This indicates that the June 26 had not been made ​​the order.




All you got to do people is ask..  Now would all the Trolls go away..   Silly Trolls, Tricks are for Kids..




Hi
 
We are glad the picture has sparked a debate but what I can assure you is that the picture shows the die running at 125 degrees C. if it looks warmer to the human eye we are sorry but its not.
The thermal image is an absolute worst case scenario and one that will never happen if the chips is running in normal conditions. When the chips designers produce these images they have to use worst case all others cases are irrelevant. What the drawing shows is that even at 125C we are able to cool that much heat with our heat sink, which is a slightly modified http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/cpu/472/freezer-i30.html?c=2181 our device still works normally.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

Thanks

XZed
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July 20, 2013, 08:57:09 PM
 #4005

All you got to do people is ask..  Now would all the Trolls go away..   Silly Trolls, Tricks are for Kids..




Hi
 
We are glad the picture has sparked a debate but what I can assure you is that the picture shows the die running at 125 degrees C. if it looks warmer to the human eye we are sorry but its not.
The thermal image is an absolute worst case scenario and one that will never happen if the chips is running in normal conditions. When the chips designers produce these images they have to use worst case all others cases are irrelevant. What the drawing shows is that even at 125C we are able to cool that much heat with our heat sink, which is a slightly modified http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/cpu/472/freezer-i30.html?c=2181 our device still works normally.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

Kuroth's posts seem to be the only useful ones...

Thank you very much.
minternj
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July 20, 2013, 09:01:04 PM
 #4006

So to cool the chip at 125 you need to pass 25 degree air over the heatsink? lol.

Warning about Nitrogensports.eu
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709114.0
dentldir
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July 20, 2013, 09:14:49 PM
 #4007

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).





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July 20, 2013, 09:35:48 PM
 #4008

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.

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July 20, 2013, 09:37:56 PM
 #4009

I think I will leave the Engineering to the Experts..   Grin

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July 20, 2013, 09:44:43 PM
 #4010

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.
Roll Eyes No!  Read the response.  It's a simulation, and they set the chip's temperature artificially high at 125.  

I was reminded earlier to never initially ascribe malice when simple human tribe instincts can explain as much of someone's behavior.  

After all, Chicago Bears fans will badmouth the Packers; they hate the Packers because they love the Bears.  Buick owners would badmouth Oldsmobiles (easy to do, now, that they're no longer made) because the Olds was not a Buick.  

So it is with those who go onto one thread or another and badmouth that vendor.  Sure, there are some whose job is to shill and counter-shill, and there are those who deeply believe that one or the other vendors are a con-game, if not a criminal fraud.  But they're quite rare.  Most posters are likely just people who identify strongly with one of the {BFL/Avalon/AM/KnC/bitfury/[scam of the week]} tribes.  

All others, therefore, suck, and they're going to explain why to us.

Now, I'm going to go where I should have gone directly, and that's to catch up on zerohedge dot com, which is part of my Saturday afternoon routine.  That where the real FUD lives; you guys are amateurs compared to that tin foil crowd.

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July 20, 2013, 09:49:46 PM
 #4011

Well while they are still engineering this thing it would be nice if they ditched the cube and lined all 4 units up so that the exhaust from the first set of chips isn't used to cool the second set. Even with their spacing offsets it will not be ideal. A linear arrangement of units would be much cooler.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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July 20, 2013, 09:53:54 PM
 #4012

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.
Roll Eyes No!  Read the response.  It's a simulation, and they set the chip's temperature artificially high at 125.  

I was reminded earlier to never initially ascribe malice when simple human tribe instincts can explain as much of someone's behavior.  

After all, Chicago Bears fans will badmouth the Packers; they hate the Packers because they love the Bears.  Buick owners would badmouth Oldsmobiles (easy to do, now, that they're no longer made) because the Olds was not a Buick.  

So it is with those who go onto one thread or another and badmouth that vendor.  Sure, there are some whose job is to shill and counter-shill, and there are those who deeply believe that one or the other vendors are a con-game, if not a criminal fraud.  But they're quite rare.  Most posters are likely just people who identify strongly with one of the {BFL/Avalon/AM/KnC/bitfury/[scam of the week]} tribes.  

All others, therefore, suck, and they're going to explain why to us.

Now, I'm going to go where I should have gone directly, and that's to catch up on zerohedge dot com, which is part of my Saturday afternoon routine.  That where the real FUD lives; you guys are amateurs compared to that tin foil crowd.



Read the first line, the rest was just gibberish :/

This is thermodynamics, you don't 'set' a temperature for the chip. You set airflow characteristics, ambient temps, all the material and conduction properties, convection properties blah blah, and most importantly: the heat output of the chip.

The temp it settles at is the result of your simulation and is determined by the thermodynamic relationship of the system.

UNLESS, this is a faked simulation which really isn't a simulation - but a fixed temp heat dissipation exercise. Set chip temp to 125C fixed, 2D analysis, ambient temp in -> what happens to the airflow? Means absolutely nothing, provides absolutely nothing, tells you absolutely nothing but would produce a pretty graph like we see here.

And that is an auto scaled legend (min and max, spread linearly), if its showing 223 as the max then somewhere on that simulation is a spot temp of 223. He can say otherwise but....


supertldr: Simulation is either still wrong and they don't know it is/don't care/don't understand/know its wrong and just did it for the pretty picture. The results of the simulation are questionable.

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July 20, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
 #4013

I too was looking at the simulation.. Looks more like 125 than 150
Armchair experts again.
how is my armchair expertise now? Did you care to gimp the image before shitting on my post? KnC officially stated it the simulation showing 125C

Have a nice life, asshole. Grin
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July 20, 2013, 10:03:30 PM
 #4014

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.

My interpretation of their message stands.  I'm not speaking for the accuracy of the simulation or for the simulation frequency which would drive the temperature.  I'm just making an unambiguous interpretation of what was stated.

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July 20, 2013, 10:06:36 PM
 #4015

...a fixed temp heat dissipation exercise. Set chip temp to 125C fixed, 2D analysis, ambient temp in -> what happens to the airflow? Means absolutely nothing, provides absolutely nothing, tells you absolutely nothing but would produce a pretty graph like we see here.


True, you do get a pretty picture.  That, and it precludes by putting to rest a lot of the trial and error bullshit as has been -and still is- plaguing the DIY enablement efforts for both Avalon and BFL (come to think of it, bitfury as well, IIRC) regarding cooling.
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July 20, 2013, 10:18:44 PM
 #4016

Looking at 'pretty picture' - that heatsink isn't dissipating any heat. Huh
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July 20, 2013, 10:21:05 PM
 #4017

Looking at 'pretty picture' - that heatsink isn't dissipating any heat. Huh

Yes it is. Simulations cheat a bit, but the heatsink is heating up the air as it passes through. So the heatsink isn't 'hot' on that scale, but it is giving off heat.

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July 20, 2013, 11:02:58 PM
 #4018


Someone can have an idea about this:

 In the news 22. They said chip  would 2046 balls
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-22
and now 2797 is a significant change. A to be.This indicates that the June 26 had not been made ​​the order.

thanks

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July 20, 2013, 11:36:42 PM
 #4019

Hi guys Smiley

If I get now the Mercury  ( 1995 $ ) and you not send me  the product  OR the product it´s not good , how I get the money back ?

Tnx  Smiley
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July 20, 2013, 11:41:29 PM
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 Total is $ 2,593.80 not 1995

=

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