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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007926 times)
Mota
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July 20, 2013, 11:47:04 PM
 #4021

Hi guys Smiley

If I get now the Mercury  ( 1995 $ ) and you not send me  the product  OR the product it´s not good , how I get the money back ?

Tnx  Smiley
How about sending them an email instead of wasting everyones time with a useless post?

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July 20, 2013, 11:51:20 PM
 #4022

Total is $ 2,593.80 not 1995

Total it´s https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners  + UPS Zone 4  $ 93  = 2088 $  Wink
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July 21, 2013, 12:01:27 AM
 #4023

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).






This is meaningless, since if the heat dissipation below 125 was insufficient it would simply heat up to 125 and cool adequately.

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July 21, 2013, 01:01:16 AM
 #4024

It seems pretty clear to me (and my armchair) that the "worst case scenario" means 120 watt pushed in the simulator when the chip should do 90-100. The temperature is a result and not a parameter.

Why 120watt? Well (in my opinion) if they want to use a modified CPU cooler, they shouldn't go too far from common CPU TDPs

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July 21, 2013, 01:18:34 AM
 #4025

Roll Eyes No!  Read the response.  It's a simulation, and they set the chip's temperature artificially high at 125.  
That makes sense. So the chip survives with this cooling solution at worst case scenario under normal temp conditions.


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July 21, 2013, 01:21:58 AM
 #4026

This is thermodynamics, you don't 'set' a temperature for the chip. You set airflow characteristics, ambient temps, all the material and conduction properties, convection properties blah blah, and most importantly: the heat output of the chip.

The temp it settles at is the result of your simulation and is determined by the thermodynamic relationship of the system.
Really depends what you're testing. If you're testing a cooling solution that's one thing--which appears to be what's happening with this picture. They're not saying the chip itself every gets to 125C, but they're saying if it did here's the thermal result based on cooling. At least, that's the most generous way to read the situation. But it's also plausible and even probable if we assume that KNC isn't full of idiots.

UNLESS, this is a faked simulation which really isn't a simulation - but a fixed temp heat dissipation exercise. Set chip temp to 125C fixed, 2D analysis, ambient temp in -> what happens to the airflow? Means absolutely nothing, provides absolutely nothing, tells you absolutely nothing but would produce a pretty graph like we see here.
That's what I think we're seeing, yes. Who knows the origin of this picture too, it may be a simulation not even provided by KNC but by the documentation around the cooling solution itself.


Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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July 21, 2013, 02:06:55 AM
 #4027



Now, I'm going to go where I should have gone directly, and that's to catch up on zerohedge dot com, which is part of my Saturday afternoon routine.  That where the real FUD lives; you guys are amateurs compared to that tin foil crowd.



I recently retired from there...

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July 21, 2013, 02:24:00 AM
 #4028

This is thermodynamics, you don't 'set' a temperature for the chip. You set airflow characteristics, ambient temps, all the material and conduction properties, convection properties blah blah, and most importantly: the heat output of the chip.

The temp it settles at is the result of your simulation and is determined by the thermodynamic relationship of the system.
Really depends what you're testing. If you're testing a cooling solution that's one thing--which appears to be what's happening with this picture. They're not saying the chip itself every gets to 125C, but they're saying if it did here's the thermal result based on cooling. At least, that's the most generous way to read the situation. But it's also plausible and even probable if we assume that KNC isn't full of idiots.

UNLESS, this is a faked simulation which really isn't a simulation - but a fixed temp heat dissipation exercise. Set chip temp to 125C fixed, 2D analysis, ambient temp in -> what happens to the airflow? Means absolutely nothing, provides absolutely nothing, tells you absolutely nothing but would produce a pretty graph like we see here.
That's what I think we're seeing, yes. Who knows the origin of this picture too, it may be a simulation not even provided by KNC but by the documentation around the cooling solution itself.

Part 1 doesn't make sense. There is no point seeing what the cooling solution does with a chip temp @ 125C - your chip is on fire. Doesn't matter if the heat is being dissipated or not, chip is still too hot.

Quite honestly I don't think this slide was created to do anything other than deceive. The results don't make sense in any useful or meaningful scenario, other than to generate pretty pictures.

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July 21, 2013, 02:40:22 AM
 #4029



Quite honestly I don't think this slide was created to do anything other than deceive. The results don't make sense in any useful or meaningful scenario, other than to generate pretty pictures.

OK.. we'll jot you down as a skeptic on the cooling just in case you aren't here daily until September reminding us about it


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July 21, 2013, 02:53:25 AM
 #4030



Quite honestly I don't think this slide was created to do anything other than deceive. The results don't make sense in any useful or meaningful scenario, other than to generate pretty pictures.

OK.. we'll jot you down as a skeptic on the cooling just in case you aren't here daily until September reminding us about it



Calm down, we know they have your money hostage so you have to agree with them. Its been like 24 hours since I first brought it up, still not been explained away. Your miners, your houses being burnt down by your miners.

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July 21, 2013, 03:02:20 AM
 #4031



Quite honestly I don't think this slide was created to do anything other than deceive. The results don't make sense in any useful or meaningful scenario, other than to generate pretty pictures.

OK.. we'll jot you down as a skeptic on the cooling just in case you aren't here daily until September reminding us about it



Calm down, we know they have your money hostage so you have to agree with them. Its been like 24 hours since I first brought it up, still not been explained away. Your miners, your houses being burnt down by your miners.

and the stage is more important than the message...

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July 21, 2013, 07:38:27 AM
 #4032

I was curious about the final cost at my door, wasn't sure about customs and VAT etc. and I found this little tool which I thought some peeps may find useful sooner or later. You get a few free shots and can email results to yourself, not sure of it's accuracy but maybe someone knows more than I if they have experience ? http://www.dutycalculator.com/ 

This might be handy too. http://www.sust-it.net/energy-calculator.php
eve
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July 21, 2013, 08:18:09 AM
 #4033

At the end of the Day, the only thing we need to be concern is can we get our miners in September 2013? ? Can we get them? How many of us are 100% confident without a doubt??
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July 21, 2013, 08:31:01 AM
 #4034

At the end of the Day, the only thing we need to be concern is can we get our miners in September 2013? ? Can we get them? How many of us are 100% confident without a doubt??

If you are confident without a doubt you are probably insane. There is no 100% guarantee for it (or anything really), but according to KNC they are still on track to deliver in September.
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July 21, 2013, 09:31:49 AM
 #4035



Quite honestly I don't think this slide was created to do anything other than deceive. The results don't make sense in any useful or meaningful scenario, other than to generate pretty pictures.

OK.. we'll jot you down as a skeptic on the cooling just in case you aren't here daily until September reminding us about it



Calm down, we know they have your money hostage so you have to agree with them. Its been like 24 hours since I first brought it up, still not been explained away. Your miners, your houses being burnt down by your miners.

No one has my money hostage. I paid 2 Jupiters and even paid them per bank transfer. I did that simply because the business practice of kmc are and have been very professional throughout.

And hey, why wouldn't they take 125°C as a highly unlikely worst case szenario? You would be strolling around spreading FUD even more if they took a likely szenario with 70-90 °C because then you could rant about them not even having the chips and making predictions with optimal circumstances and conditions...

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July 21, 2013, 09:46:12 AM
 #4036

At the end of the Day, the only thing we need to be concern is can we get our miners in September 2013? ? Can we get them? How many of us are 100% confident without a doubt??

If you are confident without a doubt you are probably insane. There is no 100% guarantee for it (or anything really), but according to KNC they are still on track to deliver in September.


Scary even you yourself not 100% sure you will get your miner on time??
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July 21, 2013, 10:03:02 AM
 #4037

At the end of the Day, the only thing we need to be concern is can we get our miners in September 2013? ? Can we get them? How many of us are 100% confident without a doubt??

If you are confident without a doubt you are probably insane. There is no 100% guarantee for it (or anything really), but according to KNC they are still on track to deliver in September.


Scary even you yourself not 100% sure you will get your miner on time??

You can never be 100% sure. You can only be reasonably sure. There are way too many factors that could go wrong with the delivery alone. Customs, shipping accidents etc...

Who wants to be a billionaire? Me!
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July 21, 2013, 10:04:05 AM
 #4038

At the end of the Day, the only thing we need to be concern is can we get our miners in September 2013? ? Can we get them? How many of us are 100% confident without a doubt??

If you are confident without a doubt you are probably insane. There is no 100% guarantee for it (or anything really), but according to KNC they are still on track to deliver in September.


Scary even you yourself not 100% sure you will get your miner on time??

LOL! Dude go ahead and buy a BMW and you wont be 100% sure that is arrives in time.

So whats this 100%-sure shit about? Ever heard of things called risk and reward? No? Well than you better go and try to understand those things first...
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July 21, 2013, 10:16:33 AM
 #4039

pffff...i just found out if you pay in bitcoins somehow the VAT suddenly dissapears.. this is a bit bullshit in my opinion...

when i order i get



When i enter bitpay it subtracts the VAT... what the hell.. i payed VAT for 2 Jupiters for nothing!?

=

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July 21, 2013, 10:40:27 AM
 #4040

pffff...i just found out if you pay in bitcoins somehow the VAT suddenly dissapears.. this is a bit bullshit in my opinion...

when i order i get



When i enter bitpay it subtracts the VAT... what the hell.. i payed VAT for 2 Jupiters for nothing!?

I paid with Bitpay and the VAT was not substracted, I had to pay $ 2,504.25, for delivery inside the EU.
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