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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011280 times)
titomane
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July 22, 2013, 09:34:02 PM


And why do you assume they HAVE to tell you anything? They told us from the beginning that the specs are not written in stone. They were very forthcoming with information up until now, but some people just can't get enough.

Fanboy answer.


I do not assume anything.
Just saying it's a major change in 2046-2797.




I don't see what the big deal is, if anything it shows that they are actively working on the design and that there is actually progress. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole damn box gets redesigned before its shipped, and really I think most people could care less as long as it works... The only real issue that should be of concern is whether or not they are on schedule, and at this point there is no reason to think otherwise. They have been better than anyone else at providing timely information.

 Everyone should just let them work and stop busting their balls. It won't make the process move any faster...

Clearly I have a project changes. But the manufacture of the chip after dispatch is between 8 and 12 weeks. If the order to make it in July. The chips did not receive before September.

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erschiessen
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July 22, 2013, 09:36:58 PM

I wanted a Mars.
Shucks, I asked to purchase THE Mars.


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Xian01
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July 22, 2013, 09:42:12 PM

Wow! Thats a lot of solder balls per chip.  Is this amount of connections normally soldered reliably in manufacturing?
Yeah, that density is nucking futs. Raises a red flag.
Armchair Engineers

 Guilty. Doesn't mean I'm not going to call out a red flag when I see something that seems off.

 The KNC folk are ambitious people. Lets hope all their hard work pays off when these chips become a reality.
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July 22, 2013, 10:24:03 PM



How is providing a tape-out date giving away commercially sensitive information if they have already given a projected shipping date?
Because you are informing your competitors, of which there are several, exactly where you are up to.



I guess that the real "dangerous" competitors of KnC know that the tape-out must be executed end of June/beginning of July to have a minimum chance to meet the announced start of delivery in September, because they have all the numbers too (e.g. 28nm foundry cycle times, time required for bumping/packaging). And they also know, not announcing a tape-out means probably that it was not done yet.

So KnC competitors most likely feel quite comfortable without hearing anything about it. It's harder for KnC customers, which are at the same time KnC investors in a risky business where time-to-market is everything.
erk
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July 22, 2013, 10:37:48 PM



How is providing a tape-out date giving away commercially sensitive information if they have already given a projected shipping date?
Because you are informing your competitors, of which there are several, exactly where you are up to.



I guess that the real "dangerous" competitors of KnC know that the tape-out must be executed end of June/beginning of July to have a minimum chance to meet the announced start of delivery in September, because they have all the numbers too (e.g. 28nm foundry cycle times, time required for bumping/packaging). And they also know, not announcing a tape-out means probably that it was not done yet.

So KnC competitors most likely feel quite comfortable without hearing anything about it. It's harder for KnC customers, which are at the same time investors in a risky business where time-to-market is everything.

If KNCminer were a serious business, they would have used venture capital to order the wafers etc. not taken a penny in pre-order money off people, and stormed onto the market with all guns blazing after not having warned the competiton they were coming. Hopefully they will do that with future products.
jmaccoin
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July 22, 2013, 10:43:36 PM

Interesting articles on Wikipedia that I enjoyed reading on this topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FPGA_prototype
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_cell
HyperMega
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July 22, 2013, 10:46:58 PM



How is providing a tape-out date giving away commercially sensitive information if they have already given a projected shipping date?
Because you are informing your competitors, of which there are several, exactly where you are up to.



I guess that the real "dangerous" competitors of KnC know that the tape-out must be executed end of June/beginning of July to have a minimum chance to meet the announced start of delivery in September, because they have all the numbers too (e.g. 28nm foundry cycle times, time required for bumping/packaging). And they also know, not announcing a tape-out means probably that it was not done yet.

So KnC competitors most likely feel quite comfortable without hearing anything about it. It's harder for KnC customers, which are at the same time investors in a risky business where time-to-market is everything.

If KNCminer were a serious business, they would have used venture capital to order the wafers etc. not taken a penny in pre-order money off people, and stormed onto the market with all guns blazing after not having warned the competiton they were coming. Hopefully they will do that with future products.

The Bitcoin ASIC business is currently away too risky for bigger venture capitalists. And the other problem is that those guys probably would not be happy with some ASIC miners. I guess, in case they would invest, they want at least 51% of your company. Wink
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July 22, 2013, 10:47:36 PM



Maybe they don't wish to be cast in the same mould as BFL? I'm betting that the way that they invited people to visit and have given out plenty of information and generally communicated with customers and potential customers makes for most people feeling much more confident?

I'm not 100% that they will manage their projected delivery dates, that would be unreasonable with a product that's at this stage. However, I'm pretty confident that I'll be getting a box from Sweden months before I'd have got anything from BFL , it will work and stay working and I won't be hearing "in 2 weeks" over and over when the time comes.

There's always a risk in this type of purchase, but count your blessings that you're not trying to even get an email reply from Flutterby Labs Wink
A month late..that's overachieving over in Kansas. Wink
It's more likely that it's because the are noobs, you can tell that from the way they simply cancelled the Mars FPGA unit with little regard for the impact on their reputation that caused. Fortunately their competition is not organized at this point, so it doesn't really matter.
Show us where mars was offered.  It wasn't. It was a prototype, and that's all.  Never was it EVER stated that Mars would be available for purchase, other than you buying your own altera card & fpga chip from orsoc. There is soo much BS in here now, about nonsensical issues & misinformation, that it's more like a whiners room for people who assume stuff without reading, or comprehending what they read.


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ASIC-K
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July 22, 2013, 10:48:47 PM

im pretty sure they did actually offer the mars for sale, but then scrapped that plan for ASIC.
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July 22, 2013, 11:05:46 PM

im pretty sure they did actually offer the mars for sale, but then scrapped that plan for ASIC.

Not for sale. for preoorder, without any money involved. they scratched it before they added paid orders. that is a huge difference.

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July 22, 2013, 11:06:23 PM


Show us where mars was offered.  It wasn't. It was a prototype, and that's all.  Never was it EVER stated that Mars would be available for purchase, other than you buying your own altera card & fpga chip from orsoc. There is soo much BS in here now, about nonsensical issues & misinformation, that it's more like a whiners room for people who assume stuff without reading, or comprehending what they read.


"Mars
 
This device will be the first mass produced product and is available for purchase in the next few days."


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-10
ASIC-K
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July 22, 2013, 11:07:56 PM



Maybe they don't wish to be cast in the same mould as BFL? I'm betting that the way that they invited people to visit and have given out plenty of information and generally communicated with customers and potential customers makes for most people feeling much more confident?

I'm not 100% that they will manage their projected delivery dates, that would be unreasonable with a product that's at this stage. However, I'm pretty confident that I'll be getting a box from Sweden months before I'd have got anything from BFL , it will work and stay working and I won't be hearing "in 2 weeks" over and over when the time comes.

There's always a risk in this type of purchase, but count your blessings that you're not trying to even get an email reply from Flutterby Labs Wink
A month late..that's overachieving over in Kansas. Wink
It's more likely that it's because the are noobs, you can tell that from the way they simply cancelled the Mars FPGA unit with little regard for the impact on their reputation that caused. Fortunately their competition is not organized at this point, so it doesn't really matter.
Show us where mars was offered.  It wasn't. It was a prototype, and that's all.  Never was it EVER stated that Mars would be available for purchase, other than you buying your own altera card & fpga chip from orsoc. There is soo much BS in here now, about nonsensical issues & misinformation, that it's more like a whiners room for people who assume stuff without reading, or comprehending what they read.


"Mars
 
This device will be the first mass produced product and is available for purchase in the next few days."


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-10

THIS. im right. youre wrong. ha
Mota
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July 22, 2013, 11:09:37 PM



Maybe they don't wish to be cast in the same mould as BFL? I'm betting that the way that they invited people to visit and have given out plenty of information and generally communicated with customers and potential customers makes for most people feeling much more confident?

I'm not 100% that they will manage their projected delivery dates, that would be unreasonable with a product that's at this stage. However, I'm pretty confident that I'll be getting a box from Sweden months before I'd have got anything from BFL , it will work and stay working and I won't be hearing "in 2 weeks" over and over when the time comes.

There's always a risk in this type of purchase, but count your blessings that you're not trying to even get an email reply from Flutterby Labs Wink
A month late..that's overachieving over in Kansas. Wink
It's more likely that it's because the are noobs, you can tell that from the way they simply cancelled the Mars FPGA unit with little regard for the impact on their reputation that caused. Fortunately their competition is not organized at this point, so it doesn't really matter.
Show us where mars was offered.  It wasn't. It was a prototype, and that's all.  Never was it EVER stated that Mars would be available for purchase, other than you buying your own altera card & fpga chip from orsoc. There is soo much BS in here now, about nonsensical issues & misinformation, that it's more like a whiners room for people who assume stuff without reading, or comprehending what they read.


"Mars
 
This device will be the first mass produced product and is available for purchase in the next few days."


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-10

THIS. im right. youre wrong. ha

Not really. ha. you won't find anyone who actually paid for one.

Who wants to be a billionaire? Me!
You could help Wink 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp
ASIC-K
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July 22, 2013, 11:10:47 PM

same difference. lol. it was going to be sold.
erk
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July 22, 2013, 11:35:34 PM



The Bitcoin ASIC business is currently away too risky for bigger venture capitalists. And the other problem is that those guys probably would not be happy with some ASIC miners. I guess, in case they would invest, they want at least 51% of your company. Wink
$3.5mill is what KNCminer said they needed for the wafer run, that's petty cash for a venture capitalist, in a sellers market too, would have been even easier. The problem is that engineers and technical people have little idea how to raise funds for a new venture, so they resort to the pre-order path and put up with truckloads of impatient buyers as a result.

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July 23, 2013, 12:30:37 AM

The Bitcoin ASIC business is currently away too risky for bigger venture capitalists. And the other problem is that those guys probably would not be happy with some ASIC miners. I guess, in case they would invest, they want at least 51% of your company. Wink
$3.5mill is what KNCminer said they needed for the wafer run, that's petty cash for a venture capitalist, in a sellers market too, would have been even easier. The problem is that engineers and technical people have little idea how to raise funds for a new venture, so they resort to the pre-order path and put up with truckloads of impatient buyers as a result.

I applaud the non-VC path.  If you can do it without a VC, why would you go down that path?  Also, the notion of "venture capital" is a very American concept - yes, there are VC's in UK and other parts of the world, but it's nascent compared to the United States and maybe even limited to just the major metropolitan cities (Silicon Valley, New York, Los Angeles, etc).  I doubt the time to market timeframe is conducive to raising a venture round for KNC.  Then the trolls will start talking about how late to the game they are...

BTC: 1P77ekpQigu2HfiB67wNhzmMmEvZFkE2jv | KNCMiner Neptune 20nm 3TH/S for $10K in Q1/Q2 2014
erk
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July 23, 2013, 12:39:13 AM



I applaud the non-VC path.  If you can do it without a VC, why would you go down that path?  Also, the notion of "venture capital" is a very American concept - yes, there are VC's in UK and other parts of the world, but it's nascent compared to the United States and maybe even limited to just the major metropolitan cities (Silicon Valley, New York, Los Angeles, etc).  I doubt the time to market timeframe is conducive to raising a venture round for KNC.  Then the trolls will start talking about how late to the game they are...
Nonsense, I have an IT company in the building that I am in, who got $40mill VC from Amsterdam and are doing great. Israel is also one of the VC  IT hubs of the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venture_capital_in_Israel

Most people don't know how to find and access VC offers, there is a lot of misinformation about.



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July 23, 2013, 12:54:10 AM



I applaud the non-VC path.  If you can do it without a VC, why would you go down that path?  Also, the notion of "venture capital" is a very American concept - yes, there are VC's in UK and other parts of the world, but it's nascent compared to the United States and maybe even limited to just the major metropolitan cities (Silicon Valley, New York, Los Angeles, etc).  I doubt the time to market timeframe is conducive to raising a venture round for KNC.  Then the trolls will start talking about how late to the game they are...
Nonsense, I have an IT company in the building that I am in, who got $40mill VC from Amsterdam and are doing great. Israel is also one of the VC  IT hubs of the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venture_capital_in_Israel

Most people don't know how to find and access VC offers, there is a lot of misinformation about.


+1. They also have the option of getting funding through regular bitcoin investors through an IPO on one of the exchanges. I for one would greatly value the ability to invest in KnC.

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July 23, 2013, 12:58:57 AM


+1. They also have the option of getting funding through regular bitcoin investors through an IPO on one of the exchanges. I for one would greatly value the ability to invest in KnC.
I agree, I think that an IPO for a good ASIC hardware company would find lots of interest. One that is not interested in making huge mining farms for themselves like ASICminer, but just providing quality hardware for the general public. With the benefit that a lot of their shareholders would also become loyal customers.


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July 23, 2013, 01:02:50 AM


+1. They also have the option of getting funding through regular bitcoin investors through an IPO on one of the exchanges. I for one would greatly value the ability to invest in KnC.
I agree, I think that an IPO for a good ASIC hardware company would find lots of interest. One that is not interesting in making huge mining farms for themselves like ASICminer, but just providing quality hardware for the general public.


FYI, KnC has not disclosed how many miners will be purchased by employees and owners of the company, but for argument's sake I'll let you assume that it's a (much) smaller operation than ASICMiner's.

Whether it's mining or selling hardware, I'm all for being able to participate as a shareholder. Without going back through the numbers, I believe that ASICMiner has distributed more dividends to shareholders from selling mining hardware than actual mining dividends.

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