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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011283 times)
webjoe
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July 23, 2013, 01:16:11 AM
 #4161

+1. They also have the option of getting funding through regular bitcoin investors through an IPO on one of the exchanges. I for one would greatly value the ability to invest in KnC.
I agree, I think that an IPO for a good ASIC hardware company would find lots of interest. One that is not interested in making huge mining farms for themselves like ASICminer, but just providing quality hardware for the general public. With the benefit that a lot of their shareholders would also become loyal customers.

IPO? Is this 1999?  You're kidding about this right?  IPO oriented company needs at least 3 years of trailing revenue and a prospectus that people understand.  People still don't get what a Bitcoin is, let alone a mining hardware manufacturer - I'll be surprised if even the Winklevoss twins can get their Bitcoin ETF through.

EDITED: I didn't realize you guys are talking about an IPO on something like Bitfunder in the spirit of ASICMiner. I think KNC wants to go the high road of a traditional business (with preorders!) than experiment with an unregulated and quasi-shareholder model.

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webjoe
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July 23, 2013, 01:26:53 AM
 #4162



I applaud the non-VC path.  If you can do it without a VC, why would you go down that path?  Also, the notion of "venture capital" is a very American concept - yes, there are VC's in UK and other parts of the world, but it's nascent compared to the United States and maybe even limited to just the major metropolitan cities (Silicon Valley, New York, Los Angeles, etc).  I doubt the time to market timeframe is conducive to raising a venture round for KNC.  Then the trolls will start talking about how late to the game they are...
Nonsense, I have an IT company in the building that I am in, who got $40mill VC from Amsterdam and are doing great. Israel is also one of the VC  IT hubs of the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venture_capital_in_Israel

Most people don't know how to find and access VC offers, there is a lot of misinformation about.

Agreed about Israel.  However, this IT company you're mentioning that got $40M didn't start with 0 revenue when they got their VC funding - unless the entrepreneur or founder has a track record.  Nor do I believe that they are building a hardware product (correct me if I'm wrong). You need some degree of traction - maybe after their first successful launch of their products can KNC attract the right VCs.  Before that, they're going to rely on angel investors or family, friends, and fools - and I think we belong to the "Fools" category.  Crazy enough to bet that it'll all work out in the end.

KNC is in Sweden, I have no idea what the VC community looks like there - but they have a great home-grown tech ecosystem that seems to know what they're doing.  Minecraft never touched venture capital even though "Knotch" came from King.com, and Spotify came from ex developers from StarDoll (already successful before he left to start Spotify) - you'll need those type of chops to even get VCs interested pre-revenue, pre-users, pre-traction. 

I'm not saying venture capital is not a path they should take, it' just rarely make sense if you don't need it from the beginning.  You guys read too much Techcrunch to think that venture capital flows freely - build something first, get users or customers, then talk to investors.  Otherwise, keep your day job.

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July 23, 2013, 01:32:22 AM
 #4163

+1. They also have the option of getting funding through regular bitcoin investors through an IPO on one of the exchanges. I for one would greatly value the ability to invest in KnC.
I agree, I think that an IPO for a good ASIC hardware company would find lots of interest. One that is not interested in making huge mining farms for themselves like ASICminer, but just providing quality hardware for the general public. With the benefit that a lot of their shareholders would also become loyal customers.

IPO? Is this 1999?  You're kidding about this right?  IPO oriented company needs at least 3 years of trailing revenue and a prospectus that people understand.  People still don't get what a Bitcoin - I'll be surprised if even the Winklevoss twins can get their Bitcoin ETF through.

I believe they are talking about a bitcoin IPO on bitfunder or btct.co.  This would be very easy to do and could instantly raise $1,000,000+  That's assuming of course that KnC even needs the funding which I don't think they do.
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July 23, 2013, 02:37:47 AM
 #4164



Maybe they don't wish to be cast in the same mould as BFL? I'm betting that the way that they invited people to visit and have given out plenty of information and generally communicated with customers and potential customers makes for most people feeling much more confident?

I'm not 100% that they will manage their projected delivery dates, that would be unreasonable with a product that's at this stage. However, I'm pretty confident that I'll be getting a box from Sweden months before I'd have got anything from BFL , it will work and stay working and I won't be hearing "in 2 weeks" over and over when the time comes.

There's always a risk in this type of purchase, but count your blessings that you're not trying to even get an email reply from Flutterby Labs Wink
A month late..that's overachieving over in Kansas. Wink
It's more likely that it's because the are noobs, you can tell that from the way they simply cancelled the Mars FPGA unit with little regard for the impact on their reputation that caused. Fortunately their competition is not organized at this point, so it doesn't really matter.
Congratulations, you earned your ignore with that comment. seriously? you are calling orsoc noobs? everyone in their right mind would cancel the fpga at that point! I am impressed that they made the module they had to show that they could do it, but I doubt anyone would have bought on of those anyway. and they did it knowing what it would do to their reputation.

+1   felt the same after reading that.   The MARS was the FPGA prototype that is being used for the ASIC which is why there isn't that much more talk about the development.   Marcus is working on the 2nd gen at this point.   Everything is already done designwise with the first gen

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July 23, 2013, 03:06:47 AM
 #4165

Speaking of the number of pads vs. the number of actual leads on the chip, check out this actual die photo of an Avalon chip: http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/avalon-bitcoin-mining-unit-rig

As you can see, the number of pads is completely different from the number of pins on the package.  There are something like almost 400 pad (I didn't count all of them).  Bitsyncom could have added more pins, without changing the chip design if they thought they needed more power, they could have gone from 48 to 200, and it wouldn't have meant a single change for the die itself.

It could simply meant they wanted more "power balls" or perhaps they wanted to add some redundancy on the data lines. The chip could have thousands of pads for all we know.

KNCminer were a serious business, they would have used venture capital to order the wafers etc. not taken a penny in pre-order money off people, and stormed onto the market with all guns blazing after not having warned the competiton they were coming. Hopefully they will do that with future products.

There could be 10s of companies doing exactly that. In fact, Yifu actually mentioned some VC backed projects that were looking to do ASICs for personal mining use. Hopefully none of them are up and  running before my KnC pays for itself Smiley

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July 23, 2013, 03:36:46 AM
 #4166

I have the opportunity to upgrade my Saturn for $3500 and really not sure what to do. It is already pumping 400G/H/s which isn't bad for my first miner. If money wasn't an issue I'd probably just go ahead and do it.

Has anyone else upgraded their units with their upgrade packages or just kept the same?


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July 23, 2013, 03:41:14 AM
 #4167

I have the opportunity to upgrade my Saturn for $3500 and really not sure what to do. It is already pumping 400G/H/s which isn't bad for my first miner. If money wasn't an issue I'd probably just go ahead and do it.

Has anyone else upgraded their units with their upgrade packages or just kept the same?



I'm of the opinion that KnC will deliver on time.  If that is true, then you will make money on your investment.

I don't know your situation and you should never invest money that you can't afford, but I would upgrade.
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July 23, 2013, 04:32:52 AM
 #4168

I have the opportunity to upgrade my Saturn for $3500 and really not sure what to do. It is already pumping 400G/H/s which isn't bad for my first miner. If money wasn't an issue I'd probably just go ahead and do it.

Has anyone else upgraded their units with their upgrade packages or just kept the same?



I'm of the opinion that KnC will deliver on time.  If that is true, then you will make money on your investment.

I don't know your situation and you should never invest money that you can't afford, but I would upgrade.

What guarantee that they will deliver on time? will get our Miner in September 2013 guarantee??
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July 23, 2013, 04:42:46 AM
 #4169

What guarantee that they will deliver on time? will get our Miner in September 2013 guarantee??

Guaranteed by fiat.

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July 23, 2013, 04:44:38 AM
 #4170



What guarantee that they will deliver on time? will get our Miner in September 2013 guarantee??
You will have to wait until September 2013 to see if they deliver on time wont you. The timing is obviously a best estimate, not a guarantee of anything, it maybe sooner, it may be later, it maybe not at all, those are your three options.
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July 23, 2013, 07:01:46 AM
 #4171

So..difficulty is up to 31M already which concerns me.  As someone who has a Mercury on order that I don't expect to see until October at the earliest, according to the new mining calculator at the genesis block mining.thegenesisblock.com, things aren't looking favorable

For me, its looking like 140 days to break even, then maybe $300-$400 gain over that before losing money.  I could upgrade to a Saturn but those don't look much better - Jupiters still looking decent though.

So for me, as much as I want to support KnC, I'm considering canceling strictly based on current/projected difficulty...anyone else?
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July 23, 2013, 09:09:39 AM
 #4172

So..difficulty is up to 31M already which concerns me.  As someone who has a Mercury on order that I don't expect to see until October at the earliest, according to the new mining calculator at the genesis block mining.thegenesisblock.com, things aren't looking favorable

For me, its looking like 140 days to break even, then maybe $300-$400 gain over that before losing money.  I could upgrade to a Saturn but those don't look much better - Jupiters still looking decent though.

So for me, as much as I want to support KnC, I'm considering canceling strictly based on current/projected difficulty...anyone else?

there is a slim possibility that either BTC price will go up substantially or that other alt-sha256 coins will come into prominence along with bitcoin.  There is likely use for asic bitcoin hardware but it will now be a knowledge and efficiency game to find that next new coin and get in while difficulty is low. 

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July 23, 2013, 10:31:14 AM
 #4173

its gonna be tight even if they do deliver on time.

there is a huge difference in profitability between september & november..(IE. slim & NONE)

i'd be interested to hear what KnC themselves have to say (NOT Bitcoinorama, we know you went to visit etc)
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July 23, 2013, 11:12:04 AM
 #4174

BFL ramping up deliveries, Avalon chips inbound!!!!, Avalon batch 3, ASICminer, Bitfury, and some other small players

The next few months are going to be bloody tough. Wont be surprised if it hits 150-200mil by October-November

BFL - very slow shipping - no worries - obsolete soon
Avalon chips - pfff nothing - obsolete after KNC will start shipping
Avalon batch 3 - no shipping, if yes only 36TH/s - means nothing
Bitfuty - few TH/s means nothing
ASICminer - obsolete soon

Other companies - avalon clones - means nothing

Thats my opinion.






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July 23, 2013, 11:27:18 AM
 #4175

BFL ramping up deliveries, Avalon chips inbound!!!!, Avalon batch 3, ASICminer, Bitfury, and some other small players

The next few months are going to be bloody tough. Wont be surprised if it hits 150-200mil by October-November

BFL - very slow shipping - no worries - obsolete soon
Avalon chips - pfff nothing - obsolete after KNC will start shipping
Avalon batch 3 - no shipping, if yes only 36TH/s - means nothing
Bitfuty - few TH/s means nothing
ASICminer - obsolete soon

Other companies - avalon clones - means nothing

Thats my opinion.

I would be very pleased if the competition fell on their face between now and November, but that's just wishful thinking. I have estimated that difficulty will be at 100M by September and likely 200M by late October/early November. Until KnC has some sort of a major delay, I'll keep my order, but I am not planning on making a ton of profit.

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July 23, 2013, 11:39:13 AM
 #4176

BFL - very slow shipping - no worries - obsolete soon
Avalon chips - pfff nothing - obsolete after KNC will start shipping
Avalon batch 3 - no shipping, if yes only 36TH/s - means nothing
Bitfuty - few TH/s means nothing
ASICminer - obsolete soon

I agree with you that less efficient Gen 1 asics such as Avalon or BFL will become obsolete... but they wont until diff rises quite a bit past that 150-200mil.
Until then the millions of Avalon chips will make a significant difference. And BFL might (I doubt it) speed up production.

Bitfury -few TH/s?
I disagree. Poject "100TH" will (eventually) deploy 75TH in August and 25TH later on, metabank will (eventually) deploy around 50TH until October, Bitfurystrikesback/Megabigpower will (eventually) deploy several hundred TH until the end of the year (if shipment begins in August).
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July 23, 2013, 11:59:40 AM
 #4177

BFL - very slow shipping - no worries - obsolete soon
Avalon chips - pfff nothing - obsolete after KNC will start shipping
Avalon batch 3 - no shipping, if yes only 36TH/s - means nothing
Bitfuty - few TH/s means nothing
ASICminer - obsolete soon

I agree with you that less efficient Gen 1 asics such as Avalon or BFL will become obsolete... but they wont until diff rises quite a bit past that 150-200mil.
Until then the millions of Avalon chips will make a significant difference. And BFL might (I doubt it) speed up production.

Bitfury -few TH/s?
I disagree. Poject "100TH" will (eventually) deploy 75TH in August and 25TH later on, metabank will (eventually) deploy around 50TH until October, Bitfurystrikesback/Megabigpower will (eventually) deploy several hundred TH until the end of the year (if shipment begins in August).

Its my opinion, i dont think that 100TH/s is big amount. 1000x jupiter will be 400TH/s thats quite big. But im counting with higher BTC/EUR. So even with diff 300mil(global network 2000TH/s !!!!) its still good, 2000eur/month if BTC/EUR=100 with 1x Jupiter.





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glungnahund
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July 23, 2013, 12:08:44 PM
 #4178

BFL - very slow shipping - no worries - obsolete soon
Avalon chips - pfff nothing - obsolete after KNC will start shipping
Avalon batch 3 - no shipping, if yes only 36TH/s - means nothing
Bitfuty - few TH/s means nothing
ASICminer - obsolete soon

I agree with you that less efficient Gen 1 asics such as Avalon or BFL will become obsolete... but they wont until diff rises quite a bit past that 150-200mil.
Until then the millions of Avalon chips will make a significant difference. And BFL might (I doubt it) speed up production.

Bitfury -few TH/s?
I disagree. Poject "100TH" will (eventually) deploy 75TH in August and 25TH later on, metabank will (eventually) deploy around 50TH until October, Bitfurystrikesback/Megabigpower will (eventually) deploy several hundred TH until the end of the year (if shipment begins in August).

Its my opinion, i dont think that 100TH/s is big amount. 1000x jupiter will be 400TH/s thats quite big. But im counting with higher BTC/EUR. So even with diff 300mil(global network 2000TH/s !!!!) its still good, 2000eur/month if BTC/EUR=100 with 1x Jupiter.

If you expect higher BTC/EUR just buy BTC now!
naRky
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Bitcoin is the future...


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July 23, 2013, 12:22:50 PM
 #4179

BFL - very slow shipping - no worries - obsolete soon
Avalon chips - pfff nothing - obsolete after KNC will start shipping
Avalon batch 3 - no shipping, if yes only 36TH/s - means nothing
Bitfuty - few TH/s means nothing
ASICminer - obsolete soon

I agree with you that less efficient Gen 1 asics such as Avalon or BFL will become obsolete... but they wont until diff rises quite a bit past that 150-200mil.
Until then the millions of Avalon chips will make a significant difference. And BFL might (I doubt it) speed up production.

Bitfury -few TH/s?
I disagree. Poject "100TH" will (eventually) deploy 75TH in August and 25TH later on, metabank will (eventually) deploy around 50TH until October, Bitfurystrikesback/Megabigpower will (eventually) deploy several hundred TH until the end of the year (if shipment begins in August).

Its my opinion, i dont think that 100TH/s is big amount. 1000x jupiter will be 400TH/s thats quite big. But im counting with higher BTC/EUR. So even with diff 300mil(global network 2000TH/s !!!!) its still good, 2000eur/month if BTC/EUR=100 with 1x Jupiter.

If you expect higher BTC/EUR just buy BTC now!

Dont need:) Im trader but im intrested only in FOREX eur/usd and options on cboe(some indicies). The main reason for me buying Jupiter is support bitcoin network and mine some BTC for future hold.





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plethora
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July 23, 2013, 12:48:32 PM
 #4180

KnC hosting now available for ordering - https://www.kncminer.com/categories/hosting

Jupiter 12 months $3960
Jupiter 6 months $2200
Saturn 12 months $2400
Saturn 6 months $1400
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