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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006474 times)
klee
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July 23, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
 #4181

KnC hosting now available for ordering - https://www.kncminer.com/categories/hosting

Jupiter 12 months $3960
Jupiter 6 months $2200
Saturn 12 months $2400
Saturn 6 months $1400
So when are these going to be up & running? September or October?  Huh
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July 23, 2013, 01:05:55 PM
 #4182

I have the opportunity to upgrade my Saturn for $3500 and really not sure what to do. It is already pumping 400G/H/s which isn't bad for my first miner. If money wasn't an issue I'd probably just go ahead and do it.

Has anyone else upgraded their units with their upgrade packages or just kept the same?

Other then buying a new Jupiter, upgrading a Saturn order seems like the most cost-effective way to increase your hashrate.  No one knows what the difficulty will look like in Sept/Oct through. There's going to be raw Avalon chips, Bitfury, etc plus possibly dark projects hitting the network by then. Anyway we have until august to decide.

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July 23, 2013, 01:23:33 PM
 #4183

BFL - very slow shipping - no worries - obsolete soon
Avalon chips - pfff nothing - obsolete after KNC will start shipping
Avalon batch 3 - no shipping, if yes only 36TH/s - means nothing
Bitfuty - few TH/s means nothing
ASICminer - obsolete soon

Other companies - avalon clones - means nothing

Thats my opinion.

That's a very very optimistic opinion. KnC could turn out to be the next BFL for all you might know or it could even be delayed by a few months and then there's no chance you'll be able to get your ROI back.... or even worst, they turn out to be vaporware and you get nothing.

BFL are "aiming" at finishing most of their orders by September (yeah we heard this one before but they ARE delivering).
Avalon chips are coming and it's massive. Obsolete but still users will be running them.
Avalon batch 3 may mean only a few TH but it's still something
Bitfury few TH? lol. More like few hundred + Metabank's stash

And most important of all, ASICminer. They ain't going obselete anytime soon. They got the huge funds to back up their market share. Their next gen will be coming out soon as well.

Its your opinion, but 60 GH/s BFL is at 300mil diff pointless to run thats all. In that moment all BFL units will stop mining(jalapenos and 25GH/s little sooner). And this is same story for Avalen etc.

And i dont think that KNC will be next BFL. BFL is simple big disaster in ASIC business(customer service,more than one year delay, no ROI).


Ytterbium
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July 23, 2013, 01:38:02 PM
 #4184

So..difficulty is up to 31M already which concerns me.  As someone who has a Mercury on order that I don't expect to see until October at the earliest, according to the new mining calculator at the genesis block mining.thegenesisblock.com, things aren't looking favorable

For me, its looking like 140 days to break even, then maybe $300-$400 gain over that before losing money.  I could upgrade to a Saturn but those don't look much better - Jupiters still looking decent though.

So for me, as much as I want to support KnC, I'm considering canceling strictly based on current/projected difficulty...anyone else?

I don't really think the hashrate can go up exponentially forever, unless there's a huge spike in the cost of bitcoin simply spending money to get a bigger piece of a fixed amount of bitcoin generated every day isn't going to seem like a good investment, because at a certain point all you're going to do is decrease the profit of miners overall, who will have to spend more of their coins on new hardware rather then keeping it as profit.   It will mean all the profit goes to chip makers, rather then to miners.

For companies that both make Asics and mine with them, adding capacity will just start an arms race where they all have to spend a ton of money on fabricating chips to keep up with each other - they end up making less profit, because they'll be sending all their money to fabs.

On the other hand, if the price of bitcoin hits $1k, or even $10k there'll be a lot more money to spend on chips.

The ultimate end-game may be miners starting their own fabs to continuously crap out chips to keep up with the hashrate. That's also a less risky investment

I would be very pleased if the competition fell on their face between now and November, but that's just wishful thinking. I have estimated that difficulty will be at 100M by September and likely 200M by late October/early November. Until KnC has some sort of a major delay, I'll keep my order, but I am not planning on making a ton of profit.

It's not a question of falling flat, it's a question of fab lead times.  Other then ASICMiner all the other companies need to take orders before they fab chips, and that means months of lead time. Unfortunately, the KnC people are on about the same clock as lots of other projects - but with bitfury and Avalon chips need to be soldered on to boards by DIYers and others before they're useable, while KnC is selling complete systems.

You can see how KnC's "single huge chip" design makes manufacture a lot easier, you just need to put one chip on a bunch of boards, and slot 1-4 boards in a box and send it, rather then placing 240 chips to make an Avalon unit, or whatever.

The other problem is that Avalon/Asicminer would need to spend millions to get a 28nm chip made.

Bitfury -few TH/s?
I disagree. Poject "100TH" will (eventually) deploy 75TH in August and 25TH later on, metabank will (eventually) deploy around 50TH until October, Bitfurystrikesback/Megabigpower will (eventually) deploy several hundred TH until the end of the year (if shipment begins in August).

100TH is only enough to make the difficulty go up by 13. That's about how much came online between may 25th and july 7th

___
Of course, I should actually be discouraging everyone from mining right? So... oh yeah difficulty will 10 billion by the end of the year, don't bother buying anything, etc Wink

dracore
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July 23, 2013, 01:51:21 PM
 #4185

KnC hosting now available for ordering - https://www.kncminer.com/categories/hosting

Jupiter 12 months $3960
Jupiter 6 months $2200
Saturn 12 months $2400
Saturn 6 months $1400
So when are these going to be up & running? September or October?  Huh

They say "Hashing within a few hours of it being finished at the factory".  What if they finish in November or December?! :Sad
Priority goes to the ones paying to get it shipped...
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July 23, 2013, 02:02:13 PM
 #4186

Its your opinion, but 60 GH/s BFL is at 300mil diff pointless to run thats all. In that moment all BFL units will stop mining(jalapenos and 25GH/s little sooner). And this is same story for Avalen etc.

And i dont think that KNC will be next BFL. BFL is simple big disaster in ASIC business(customer service,more than one year delay, no ROI).

Not for those of us that have free electricity.  In that case, we mine until the hardware dies, or we decide to sell it.
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July 23, 2013, 02:12:15 PM
 #4187

Its your opinion, but 60 GH/s BFL is at 300mil diff pointless to run thats all. In that moment all BFL units will stop mining(jalapenos and 25GH/s little sooner). And this is same story for Avalen etc.

And i dont think that KNC will be next BFL. BFL is simple big disaster in ASIC business(customer service,more than one year delay, no ROI).

Not for those of us that have free electricity.  In that case, we mine until the hardware dies, or we decide to sell it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=261166.0

Bitcoinorama
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July 23, 2013, 02:25:07 PM
 #4188

Hosting plans;



There are two packages available for each device 6 months and 12 months. Every device hosted with us will be placed in our Secure data center and be looked after exclusively by KnCMiner employees.
All devices will have the same high quality management service are backed by redundant internet connections and power feeds. Boxes in our hosting environment will have access to the brand new KnCMiner pool.
The KnCMiner pool will have pool fees of 1.5% and will only be accessible to hosted devices.
The boxes will all be controlled via the KnCMiner Management portal where you will be able to choose which mining pool you want to use (you do not have to use the KnCMiner pool). You will be sent login details and a password for the portal at a later date.

Please note that at no time will any additional costs related to hosting (other than the hosting fee) be requested.

For customers who have already paid for shipping but would like to take advantage of our hosting offer, you can do the following.  After you have made a payment for the hosting we will refund you your shipping costs on request. If you want to wait to place your order, you can ask for a shipping refund in advance.

We have a limited number of spaces available inside our Data Center, So spaces will be allocated on a first come first serve bases.

The four hosting packages we are available here https://www.kncminer.com/categories/hosting and are  as follows

    Jupiter Hosting 12 Months

This product will allow you to have a Jupiter device hosted in KnCMiners secure location for a period of 12 months, after which it will be shipped to your address or you can pay again for an additional 6 months
It includes the following
No additional startup costs
6 months at 330 USD a month
No additional costs of any kind
The ATX power supply
Hashing within a few hours of it being finished at the factory
Access to the KnCMiner mining pool
Remote management via KnCMiner management portal
24/7 Monitoring by KnCMiner staff
$ 3,960.00
 
     
Saturn Hosting 12 Months

This product will allow you to have a Saturn device hosted in KnCMiners secure location for a period of 12 months, after which it will be shipped to your address or you can pay again for an additional 6 months
It includes the following
No additional startup costs
12 months at 200 USD a month
No additional costs of any kind
The ATX power supply
Hashing within a few hours of it being finished at the factory
Access to the KnCMiner mining pool
Remote management via KnCMiner management portal
24/7 Monitoring by KnCMiner staff
$ 2,400.00
 
       
Jupiter Hosting 6 Months

This product will allow you to have a Jupiter device hosted in KnCMiners secure location for a period of 6 months, after which it will be shipped to your address or you can pay again for an additional 6 months
It includes the following
200 USD startup costs (which includes the installation fee)
6 months at 350 USD a month
No additional costs of any kind
The ATX power supply
Hashing within a few hours of it being finished at the factory
Access to the KnCMiner mining pool
Remote management via KnCMiner management portal
24/7 Monitoring by KnCMiner staff
$ 2,200.00
 
     
 Saturn Hosting 6 Months

This product will allow you to have a Saturn device hosted in KnCMiners secure location for a period of 6 months, after which it will be shipped to your address or you can pay again for an additional 6 months
It includes the following
200 USD startup costs (which includes the installation fee)
6 months at 200 USD a month
No additional costs of any kind
The ATX power supply
Hashing within a few hours of it being finished at the factory
Access to the KnCMiner mining pool
Remote management via KnCMiner management portal
24/7 Monitoring by KnCMiner staff
$ 1,400.00
 

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klee
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July 23, 2013, 02:31:31 PM
 #4189

KnC hosting now available for ordering - https://www.kncminer.com/categories/hosting

Jupiter 12 months $3960
Jupiter 6 months $2200
Saturn 12 months $2400
Saturn 6 months $1400
So when are these going to be up & running? September or October?  Huh

They say "Hashing within a few hours of it being finished at the factory".  What if they finish in November or December?! :Sad
Priority goes to the ones paying to get it shipped...

I mean compared to the units shipped (pre-orders in September, orders now shipped in October) 'according to plan'.

EDIT: I ordered "Saturn Hosting 6 Months"
Mendacium
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July 23, 2013, 02:32:32 PM
 #4190

Its your opinion, but 60 GH/s BFL is at 300mil diff pointless to run thats all. In that moment all BFL units will stop mining(jalapenos and 25GH/s little sooner). And this is same story for Avalen etc.

And i dont think that KNC will be next BFL. BFL is simple big disaster in ASIC business(customer service,more than one year delay, no ROI).

Huh? BFL will be profitable until 1,000,000,000 even with high electricity cost in NYC - 0.32kwh. My jalapeno already paid itself already ($163 shipped).
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July 23, 2013, 02:45:43 PM
 #4191

I have the opportunity to upgrade my Saturn for $3500 and really not sure what to do. It is already pumping 400G/H/s which isn't bad for my first miner. If money wasn't an issue I'd probably just go ahead and do it.

Has anyone else upgraded their units with their upgrade packages or just kept the same?

Other then buying a new Jupiter, upgrading a Saturn order seems like the most cost-effective way to increase your hashrate.  No one knows what the difficulty will look like in Sept/Oct through. There's going to be raw Avalon chips, Bitfury, etc plus possibly dark projects hitting the network by then. Anyway we have until august to decide.

Well you can go here for a reference. Basic idea is if the network increases on average of 20% in difficulty then that is a 12 day difficulty run.

Now that is assuming the network difficulty is at 64 million  as an increase of 20% would be by September.  However the Avalon tab is updated with present and future expected network difficulty. The average past increase of the network difficulty is 17.4%.

Consider that other miners are putting hardware online by September/October. By then 20% increase seems low we may see a 30% increase for a few rounds of 10 day runs perhaps normalizing in December.

Please remember that this is speculation on known facts. This exercise is an attempt to manage risk.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeuPljmUNHCdEpqX2RmMDFwemJyLURVUWFtZ3J3aGc#gid=3


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July 23, 2013, 02:58:18 PM
 #4192

The Bitcoin ASIC business is currently away too risky for bigger venture capitalists. And the other problem is that those guys probably would not be happy with some ASIC miners. I guess, in case they would invest, they want at least 51% of your company. Wink
$3.5mill is what KNCminer said they needed for the wafer run, that's petty cash for a venture capitalist, in a sellers market too, would have been even easier. The problem is that engineers and technical people have little idea how to raise funds for a new venture, so they resort to the pre-order path and put up with truckloads of impatient buyers as a result.

I applaud the non-VC path.  If you can do it without a VC, why would you go down that path?  Also, the notion of "venture capital" is a very American concept - yes, there are VC's in UK and other parts of the world, but it's nascent compared to the United States and maybe even limited to just the major metropolitan cities (Silicon Valley, New York, Los Angeles, etc).  I doubt the time to market timeframe is conducive to raising a venture round for KNC.  Then the trolls will start talking about how late to the game they are...


True, to make matters worse its not a walk in the park to get VC funding these days. Everyone is looking for a sure thing, and the minute any VC sees how volatile BTC can be, the deals off.
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July 23, 2013, 03:00:30 PM
 #4193

Is there any disadvantages to having them host the machines?
If you're part of a mining pool, does that have a worse return than mining by yourself?

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July 23, 2013, 03:02:18 PM
 #4194

A bit disappointed that they're asking for the hosting $$$ up front. I thought it would be on a month-to-month basis. Anyone else disappointed?

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robix
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July 23, 2013, 03:02:58 PM
 #4195

Is there any disadvantages to having them host the machines?
If you're part of a mining pool, does that have a worse return than mining by yourself?


You can't mine yourself unless you have > 10 TH/s.

Edit:

Certainly you can, but it makes no sense.

The disatvantage of hosting is that it costs money.

A pool takes a fee, e.g. 2%. You are participating from the success of the whole pool.
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July 23, 2013, 03:09:06 PM
 #4196

A bit disappointed that they're asking for the hosting $$$ up front. I thought it would be on a month-to-month basis. Anyone else disappointed?

I e-mailed them asking about a month-to-month option. I would even pay more per month >$350 if I would not have to put the money up front. Will let you know when I hear back.

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July 23, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
 #4197

A bit disappointed that they're asking for the hosting $$$ up front. I thought it would be on a month-to-month basis. Anyone else disappointed?

I e-mailed them asking about a month-to-month option. I would even pay more per month >$350 if I would not have to put the money up front. Will let you know when I hear back.

On a side-note, is this not a better solution for those who have already bought miners?
If you switch to their hosting option, it is cheaper (upfront) than buying a miner.  Then at the end of hosting they ship the miner to you to keep (or you can decide to continue to have them host).  Maybe I'm not understanding something right, but it sounds like a better deal?

robix
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July 23, 2013, 03:18:05 PM
 #4198

A bit disappointed that they're asking for the hosting $$$ up front. I thought it would be on a month-to-month basis. Anyone else disappointed?

I e-mailed them asking about a month-to-month option. I would even pay more per month >$350 if I would not have to put the money up front. Will let you know when I hear back.

On a side-note, is this not a better solution for those who have already bought miners?
If you switch to their hosting option, it is cheaper (upfront) than buying a miner.  Then at the end of hosting they ship the miner to you to keep (or you can decide to continue to have them host).  Maybe I'm not understanding something right, but it sounds like a better deal?


You misundertstood something. First you have to buy a miner, and than you can buy hosting additionally.
WastedLTC
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July 23, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
 #4199

A bit disappointed that they're asking for the hosting $$$ up front. I thought it would be on a month-to-month basis. Anyone else disappointed?

I e-mailed them asking about a month-to-month option. I would even pay more per month >$350 if I would not have to put the money up front. Will let you know when I hear back.

On a side-note, is this not a better solution for those who have already bought miners?
If you switch to their hosting option, it is cheaper (upfront) than buying a miner.  Then at the end of hosting they ship the miner to you to keep (or you can decide to continue to have them host).  Maybe I'm not understanding something right, but it sounds like a better deal?


The cost is for the hosting, you still need to purchase a miner too.  

My POV is more money up front is tough when no product is available.  Will it be better to have it mining day 1 vs sitting idle while shipping, then ship it after 6 months when the Diff is much higher.   For me, the difficulty will play the part.  If the diff doesn't go up 20-25% each time and it still is making good money per day-- it will be better to have them host then ship after 6 months.  (you also remove the risk of it getting caught up in customs)
dracore
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July 23, 2013, 03:20:48 PM
 #4200

You misundertstood something. First you have to buy a miner, and than you can buy hosting additionally.

Ah!  Thanks for clarifying that.  I knew it was too good to be true.   Grin
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