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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007765 times)
Vycid
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July 04, 2013, 10:49:22 PM
 #3181

i have been wondering about this

how are they going to have access to 28nm chips when the rest of the companies can barely get ahold of 65nm?

i do not understand how they are going to get a hold of 28nm at the same rate as Apple IBM etc.
28nm is a common fab size, it costs more so other ASIC vendors opt for cheaper sizes.


then why are other companies developing with larger gate size?

new stuff is coming out on 100+nm designs
The larger sizes are cheaper. It not very hard to understand.

no i do understand, its just that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. all of the buyers will gravitate towards the faster, more energy efficient product. they will be dead before they can even sell the product. from now on, shouldn't they be focusing on improving a 28nm design?

No, because the mask sets at 28nm are far more expensive. So you start with chips that you have the money to develop, make some money, THEN use that money to pay for 28nm chips.

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July 04, 2013, 11:05:31 PM
 #3182

i have been wondering about this

how are they going to have access to 28nm chips when the rest of the companies can barely get ahold of 65nm?

i do not understand how they are going to get a hold of 28nm at the same rate as Apple IBM etc.
28nm is a common fab size, it costs more so other ASIC vendors opt for cheaper sizes.


then why are other companies developing with larger gate size?

new stuff is coming out on 100+nm designs
The larger sizes are cheaper. It not very hard to understand.

no i do understand, its just that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. all of the buyers will gravitate towards the faster, more energy efficient product. they will be dead before they can even sell the product. from now on, shouldn't they be focusing on improving a 28nm design?

No, because the mask sets at 28nm are far more expensive. So you start with chips that you have the money to develop, make some money, THEN use that money to pay for 28nm chips.
Let's put it this way... There are no other asic designers with the experience KNC has. Nobody comes close. Several completed asic projects. So, with that in mind, don't you think they have established relationships with manufacturers?  The knowledge to do a much simpler project than in the past?... Yes, simpler. They have one with over 140 clock domains....this has two.   Nuff said?


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July 04, 2013, 11:05:54 PM
 #3183

Sweet I can stick them around the house on different circuits.

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July 05, 2013, 05:43:26 AM
 #3184

Sweet I can stick them around the house on different circuits.

wherever you need some heat!!

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July 05, 2013, 05:50:33 AM
 #3185

i have been wondering about this

how are they going to have access to 28nm chips when the rest of the companies can barely get ahold of 65nm?

i do not understand how they are going to get a hold of 28nm at the same rate as Apple IBM etc.
28nm is a common fab size, it costs more so other ASIC vendors opt for cheaper sizes.


then why are other companies developing with larger gate size?

new stuff is coming out on 100+nm designs
The larger sizes are cheaper. It not very hard to understand.

no i do understand, its just that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. all of the buyers will gravitate towards the faster, more energy efficient product. they will be dead before they can even sell the product. from now on, shouldn't they be focusing on improving a 28nm design?

No, because the mask sets at 28nm are far more expensive. So you start with chips that you have the money to develop, make some money, THEN use that money to pay for 28nm chips.
Let's put it this way... There are no other asic designers with the experience KNC has. Nobody comes close. Several completed asic projects. So, with that in mind, don't you think they have established relationships with manufacturers?  The knowledge to do a much simpler project than in the past?... Yes, simpler. They have one with over 140 clock domains....this has two.   Nuff said?

That doesn't change the fact that the startup costs for cutting edge nodes like 28nm is much higher than for larger feature sizes (like 0.11um for Avalon).

I'm sure they can design the chips, but it's a different issue whether they've got the capital to pay a foundry for a mask set (which will run many millions).

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July 05, 2013, 05:59:51 AM
 #3186



no i do understand, its just that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. all of the buyers will gravitate towards the faster, more energy efficient product. they will be dead before they can even sell the product. from now on, shouldn't they be focusing on improving a 28nm design?
What makes you think the other ASIC vendors are going to sit still, Avalon have already stated they are working on a 2nd generation ASIC design, the foundry that BFL use can certainly do 28nm.

There is no reason to jump straight into the more expensive 28nm tech when you are a year ahead of your competition in orders/sales and you can sell everything you can ship plus more.
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July 05, 2013, 06:32:39 AM
 #3187

i have been wondering about this

how are they going to have access to 28nm chips when the rest of the companies can barely get ahold of 65nm?

i do not understand how they are going to get a hold of 28nm at the same rate as Apple IBM etc.
28nm is a common fab size, it costs more so other ASIC vendors opt for cheaper sizes.


then why are other companies developing with larger gate size?

new stuff is coming out on 100+nm designs
The larger sizes are cheaper. It not very hard to understand.

no i do understand, its just that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. all of the buyers will gravitate towards the faster, more energy efficient product. they will be dead before they can even sell the product. from now on, shouldn't they be focusing on improving a 28nm design?

If consumption w / ghs KNC devices is less also expands the lifetime of this. When a miner consumes more than mine.  Probably the owner turn off. There are owners who are supplied with solar installations, but they are not many.

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July 05, 2013, 09:54:27 AM
 #3188

i have been wondering about this

how are they going to have access to 28nm chips when the rest of the companies can barely get ahold of 65nm?

i do not understand how they are going to get a hold of 28nm at the same rate as Apple IBM etc.
28nm is a common fab size, it costs more so other ASIC vendors opt for cheaper sizes.


then why are other companies developing with larger gate size?

new stuff is coming out on 100+nm designs
The larger sizes are cheaper. It not very hard to understand.

no i do understand, its just that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. all of the buyers will gravitate towards the faster, more energy efficient product. they will be dead before they can even sell the product. from now on, shouldn't they be focusing on improving a 28nm design?

If consumption w / ghs KNC devices is less also expands the lifetime of this. When a miner consumes more than mine.  Probably the owner turn off. There are owners who are supplied with solar installations, but they are not many.


And even then if you had the outlay for solar, would you not prefer to maximise multiples of Gh/s?

Everyone views the scramble for ASIC development as how much they could realistically afford in terms of hashrate to remain competitive amongst eachother, when in my eyes it's far more important Bitcoin has the most power efficient, secure and non-centralised, widely distributed network as competitive claims in comparison to traditional payment processing. These all become arguments in legitimising it's survival. 28nm was always going to become the benchmark when a professional engineering firm eventually approached these dilemmas. 130nm, 110nm and 65nm, were only ever going to be stepping stones in existing tech capability.

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July 05, 2013, 02:14:46 PM
 #3189


And even then if you had the outlay for solar, would you not prefer to maximise multiples of Gh/s?

Everyone views the scramble for ASIC development as how much they could realistically afford in terms of hashrate to remain competitive amongst eachother, when in my eyes it's far more important Bitcoin has the most power efficient, secure and non-centralised, widely distributed network as competitive claims in comparison to traditional payment processing. These all become arguments in legitimising it's survival. 28nm was always going to become the benchmark when a professional engineering firm eventually approached these dilemmas. 130nm, 110nm and 65nm, were only ever going to be stepping stones in existing tech capability.
Most chip manufacturers have never got the modeled energy efficiency when they moved to 28nm.  It is doubtful that the energy savings moving from 55/65NM down to 28NM will be multiples like models suggest.  Very doubtful.   It was not for the publicly traded professional chip companies so it likely will not be for miners either.   I would think that a well designed 55/65NM will be hashing just as long as a 28NM and will not draw enough more power for it to matter.


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rizzman
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July 05, 2013, 03:52:45 PM
 #3190

Anyone order a mercury and get a day yet on their order checkup?

If you didn't order with a pre-order, you won't get an assigned shipping day. Regular orders don't get that treatment and will ship according to when the order was placed.

Incorrect, if you paid within the first 7 days, regardless if you had a pre-order or not you will get a shipping day attached to your order. I have confirmed this will KnC.

Email:

Hi Emilie,
   Sorry to bug you, I was hoping for a little clarification on the queue position. I know you guys posted the following and it seems self explanatory:

"For example Day 1/Day 2/Day 3. This will indicate how far from the start of shipping your order will dispatched. This update will not apply to new orders and will only apply to the orders which were based on pre-order registration. All other orders will be dispatched in the order of payment."

My question is, does the term pre-order include those orders that were not in the 1-500 pre-order queue but paid within the first 7 days?

If not, could you please let me know where I stand in the order queue with the following orders

#
#
#

Any answer you can give would be appreciated.

Best,
David

Response:

HI,
 
Yes it includes all order paid in the first 7 days.
I believe your orders should be updated now.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole 
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

Hope this is helpful.
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July 05, 2013, 04:31:46 PM
 #3191

i have been wondering about this

how are they going to have access to 28nm chips when the rest of the companies can barely get ahold of 65nm?

i do not understand how they are going to get a hold of 28nm at the same rate as Apple IBM etc.
28nm is a common fab size, it costs more so other ASIC vendors opt for cheaper sizes.


then why are other companies developing with larger gate size?

new stuff is coming out on 100+nm designs
The larger sizes are cheaper. It not very hard to understand.

no i do understand, its just that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. all of the buyers will gravitate towards the faster, more energy efficient product. they will be dead before they can even sell the product. from now on, shouldn't they be focusing on improving a 28nm design?

No, because the mask sets at 28nm are far more expensive. So you start with chips that you have the money to develop, make some money, THEN use that money to pay for 28nm chips.
Let's put it this way... There are no other asic designers with the experience KNC has. Nobody comes close. Several completed asic projects. So, with that in mind, don't you think they have established relationships with manufacturers?  The knowledge to do a much simpler project than in the past?... Yes, simpler. They have one with over 140 clock domains....this has two.   Nuff said?

That doesn't change the fact that the startup costs for cutting edge nodes like 28nm is much higher than for larger feature sizes (like 0.11um for Avalon).

I'm sure they can design the chips, but it's a different issue whether they've got the capital to pay a foundry for a mask set (which will run many millions).
Vycid...   3000+ orders... even a single saturn is 4k....  3000 * 4000 is 12 million... and you ask where?
Better go back & sharpen your pencil, eh?...lol


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keyzersoze
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July 05, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
 #3192

Anyone order a mercury and get a day yet on their order checkup?

If you didn't order with a pre-order, you won't get an assigned shipping day. Regular orders don't get that treatment and will ship according to when the order was placed.

Incorrect, if you paid within the first 7 days, regardless if you had a pre-order or not you will get a shipping day attached to your order. I have confirmed this will KnC.

Email:

Hi Emilie,
   Sorry to bug you, I was hoping for a little clarification on the queue position. I know you guys posted the following and it seems self explanatory:

"For example Day 1/Day 2/Day 3. This will indicate how far from the start of shipping your order will dispatched. This update will not apply to new orders and will only apply to the orders which were based on pre-order registration. All other orders will be dispatched in the order of payment."

My question is, does the term pre-order include those orders that were not in the 1-500 pre-order queue but paid within the first 7 days?

If not, could you please let me know where I stand in the order queue with the following orders

#
#
#

Any answer you can give would be appreciated.

Best,
David

Response:

HI,
 
Yes it includes all order paid in the first 7 days.
I believe your orders should be updated now.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

Hope this is helpful.



Yeah, thats what i asked/claimed on page 142, and people jumped on me as if i had told them that santa wasnt real.
I think AFox even threw the word "iliterate" around, when i pointed to the different wording on the different updates.

Tsk tsk tsk.
 

But with regards to the mercury, it wasnt available for order/purchase during that 7 day period. They just added it to the product lineup a few days ago.

nightengale
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July 05, 2013, 04:52:13 PM
 #3193

Hopefully all orders will eventually get ship day info.
OmegaNemesis28
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July 05, 2013, 05:16:03 PM
 #3194

Anyone order a mercury and get a day yet on their order checkup?

If you didn't order with a pre-order, you won't get an assigned shipping day. Regular orders don't get that treatment and will ship according to when the order was placed.

Incorrect, if you paid within the first 7 days, regardless if you had a pre-order or not you will get a shipping day attached to your order. I have confirmed this will KnC.

Email:

Hi Emilie,
   Sorry to bug you, I was hoping for a little clarification on the queue position. I know you guys posted the following and it seems self explanatory:

"For example Day 1/Day 2/Day 3. This will indicate how far from the start of shipping your order will dispatched. This update will not apply to new orders and will only apply to the orders which were based on pre-order registration. All other orders will be dispatched in the order of payment."

My question is, does the term pre-order include those orders that were not in the 1-500 pre-order queue but paid within the first 7 days?

If not, could you please let me know where I stand in the order queue with the following orders

#
#
#

Any answer you can give would be appreciated.

Best,
David

Response:

HI,
 
Yes it includes all order paid in the first 7 days.
I believe your orders should be updated now.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole 
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20

Hope this is helpful.

Oh darn! I was right after all.
I was hoping I was wrong and he was right. My order still doesn't have one.
Does that include mercuries?

I'm not one for donations but if you must go ahead and I will keep you in mind. =)
http://payb.tc/omeganemesis28
nightengale
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July 05, 2013, 05:46:12 PM
 #3195

Hopefully all orders will eventually get ship day info.

Sure, you'll be notified when it ships. Barring that.... don't expect it.

It's truly amazing how many people will spend thousands of dollars without reading everything first.

<shaking head>
OmegaNemesis28
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July 05, 2013, 05:51:39 PM
 #3196

omg, lol.  Mercuries were offered on day what??.....  28?... What do you think?

Quote
My question is, does the term pre-order include those orders that were not in the 1-500 pre-order queue but paid within the first 7 days?

First 7 days [of ordering]. Not first 7 days ever.
There are people who have orders with a shipping day attached that weren't in the first 500-700 or w/e if you keep reading.

Quote
Do you really expect them to be able to tell what day an order will ship, when it's a month down the line in production?

Its not a specific date lol Its an estimated day of.

I'm not one for donations but if you must go ahead and I will keep you in mind. =)
http://payb.tc/omeganemesis28
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July 05, 2013, 06:00:31 PM
 #3197

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink...
You could, but it would look funny and would probably be against a law Cheesy

Who wants to be a billionaire? Me!
You could help Wink 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp
OmegaNemesis28
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July 05, 2013, 06:45:12 PM
 #3198

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink...

Quote
i,
 
With Mercury, it will be later this summer when we add the days to the orders.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20


Everyone will be getting days added to orders, long before they ship.
I am now the second person to tell you.
Contact them yourselves if you need to. It took them like 2 hours to respond, not even.

I'm not one for donations but if you must go ahead and I will keep you in mind. =)
http://payb.tc/omeganemesis28
nightengale
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July 05, 2013, 07:13:13 PM
 #3199

Everyone will be getting days added to orders, long before they ship.
I am now the second person to tell you.
Contact them yourselves if you need to. It took them like 2 hours to respond, not even.

Thanks for looking into this.
Phoenix1969
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July 05, 2013, 07:28:28 PM
 #3200

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink...

Quote
i,
 
With Mercury, it will be later this summer when we add the days to the orders.
 
Thanks
Emilia
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Emilia Cole 
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20


Everyone will be getting days added to orders, long before they ship.
I am now the second person to tell you.
Contact them yourselves if you need to. It took them like 2 hours to respond, not even.
ok, thx, my bad.


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