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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011461 times)
augustocroppo
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July 30, 2013, 08:23:59 PM

Far from it I've insisted you pay by credit card and call your issuing bank and ensure they will cover your ass after the Paypal 45 day window shuts. Mine will. I rang Barclays and recorded the lady in the fraud department on loudspeaker to be super sure. If anything I was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments. Read the damn thread.

Oh really, so would you share that with all us? I will be glad to hear such conversation.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment

Quote
Our payment system will allow the following payment methods:

 PayPal

 Bitcoin via Bitpay

 Bank transfer

By the way, why KnC did not included "credit card" in their list of accepted payment method if 'was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments'?
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July 30, 2013, 08:27:43 PM

Far from it I've insisted you pay by credit card and call your issuing bank and ensure they will cover your ass after the Paypal 45 day window shuts. Mine will. I rang Barclays and recorded the lady in the fraud department on loudspeaker to be super sure. If anything I was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments. Read the damn thread.

Oh really, so would you share that with all us? I will be glad to hear such conversation.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment

Quote
Our payment system will allow the following payment methods:

 PayPal

 Bitcoin via Bitpay

 Bank transfer

By the way, why KnC did not included "credit card" in their list of accepted payment method if 'was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments'?


my guess is that they wanted to cut the time window down from 60 to 45 days using Paypal instead of CC.
kingcoin
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July 30, 2013, 08:39:02 PM

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago.

Good. Presumably you have working prototypes in your lab checking EMC compliance as well as working on SEMCO/CE approvals.
You know of a miner manufacturer that waited for CE approvals?
Show us.


It depends how it's being sold. Consumer appliances which plugs into the mains may require approval depending upon the country. There are also EMC requirements so the miner will not disturb the TV, WiFi, or whatever of your neighbor.

They're not cutting corners, or risking their business. This isn't being marketed as a consumer product, but  business to business, even so if it is to be sold in the European Union, they won't skip on a necessary requirement. Avalon were v.cheeky sending the items as research products:

https://www.gov.uk/ce-marking

That was the what the Raspberry Pi foundation tried initially, but it did not work out that way. Several thousand units were stuck waiting for approval. Also I think they had to be modified due to EMC issues with the ethernet interface if memory serves me right. Glad to hear that KnC are not cutting corners avoiding issues like this and possible lawsuits in case of fire or other hazards.
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July 30, 2013, 08:41:29 PM

No, 100% you're right, for that part I'll apologise to Augusto despite the attack on me. His past is none of my business.

I did not attack you. By no way my opinion is an attack. It is just an opinion about your profile in this forum. I do not know who you are outside this forum. Even if I was aware of who you are, by no means I would bring details of your personal life into the discussion. However after I gladly left my opinion, you just pop up with some random photos from my past background. That indicates you were very affected by my opinion. To substantiate my opinion I presented some evidence which indicates you could be working for KnC. Then you became more infuriated and brought more false statements about my personal life, when you should bring evidence to prove my opinion wrong.

Well, at least you recognize that my past background has nothing to do with the subject discussed in this topic. Do it better than that and perhaps I will reward you with another 0.10 BTC.

 Wink
erk
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July 30, 2013, 08:46:50 PM

Far from it I've insisted you pay by credit card and call your issuing bank and ensure they will cover your ass after the Paypal 45 day window shuts. Mine will. I rang Barclays and recorded the lady in the fraud department on loudspeaker to be super sure. If anything I was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments. Read the damn thread.

Oh really, so would you share that with all us? I will be glad to hear such conversation.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment

Quote
Our payment system will allow the following payment methods:

 PayPal

 Bitcoin via Bitpay

 Bank transfer

By the way, why KnC did not included "credit card" in their list of accepted payment method if 'was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments'?


my guess is that they wanted to cut the time window down from 60 to 45 days using Paypal instead of CC.
My guess is they didn't want the hassle and cost of opening a credit card online merchant facility when they had the relatively easy Paypal for which most shopping card software would have a plugin, but credit card would need something specifically written for their bank.

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July 30, 2013, 08:51:48 PM

Far from it I've insisted you pay by credit card and call your issuing bank and ensure they will cover your ass after the Paypal 45 day window shuts. Mine will. I rang Barclays and recorded the lady in the fraud department on loudspeaker to be super sure. If anything I was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments. Read the damn thread.

Oh really, so would you share that with all us? I will be glad to hear such conversation.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment

Quote
Our payment system will allow the following payment methods:

 PayPal

 Bitcoin via Bitpay

 Bank transfer

By the way, why KnC did not included "credit card" in their list of accepted payment method if 'was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments'?


my guess is that they wanted to cut the time window down from 60 to 45 days using Paypal instead of CC.

No they wanted the Paypal brand behind them, which has been a ballache since the abuse from BFLs 13 month delay and dodgy eBay fake pre-order listings BFL wouldn't honour. This is why there was the mess with pre-order resale. Each sale had to be okay'd by Sam with transfer of ownership, so there was no recourse with Paypal handling fraudulant sales via eBay. It's also why no sale of KnC products via eBay is legitimate as KnC will not transfer ownership unless you go through them. Also when you apply for a payment processor (say Yalamanchili) and an issuing bank (say IDT) to take cc payments direct you sign contracts in which certain business are excluded, or need x amount of time in existence, or minimum guaranteed monthly purchases. It's a long winded negotiation, with some business models being outright excluded (I imagine pre-orders, I certainly know money lending is). For sure unless you are selling in volume regularly you incur fees, and by volume I mean monthly over say an annual contract. It's why disruptive payment processing start-ups such as Stripe have been a blessing for small online businesses. So Paypal accepts credit cards and works as a cc payment processor regardless of whether you have a Paypal account or not.

Again this was covered before payment was made in the weeks that preceded the pre-orders, as I was demanding cc payment over Paypal, unsure of the protection outside of the 45 days. I had read that some cc issuing banks won't uphold protection when third party payments are used, i.e. Amazon, or Paypal, etc.

In any case I rang my bank. Clearly I won't be sharing a personal conversation with details about my bank account with randoms on a forum, that's for me to hold my bank to should anything go amiss, but that shouldn't stop you from calling yourself. I bank with Barclay's and for sure Barclay's customers are covered. Section 75 of the consumer credit act (UK), states you have up to 6 years to chase. I also read you have upto 180 days to complain subsequent to agreed delivery date, but the lady at Barclay's mentioned 6 years. In any case it's all in the thread prior to and during the time pre-orders opened. I posted all the section 75 stuff.

The protection however is for credit card payments only, and not debit card payment, it's what you pay the usurious interest rates for. Issuing banks all have their own rules underwritten regarding their credit card protection, so you must call and check. Mine was a Barclaycard Platinum, I don't know how that differs from any of their other cards. I record the conversations I have with banks as they and insurance companies will wriggle out of anything they can otherwise, it saves a lot of stress at a latter date. I advise anyone does that as standard practice when dealing with any customer services. Don't know if you're meant to tell them, I tried once and got hung up on, but for sure they always record you 'for training purposes' as the automated message always states. Wink

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erk
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July 30, 2013, 08:52:54 PM

Good to hear that they have taped out. Presumably they have working prototypes in the lab and are ckecking EMC compliance, getting CE approval, etc.

I don't think you need CE approval if customers have to provide their own PSU's.  Which I thought was why they went that route.

What does "tape out" mean?
Tape out is a BS term used by people that want to sound cool. In reality it's just the sending of the CAD files to the foundry to commence production, except there is a whole checking and consulting phase at the foundry that comes after they receive the CAD files which can take days or weeks, as these wafers are multi-million dollar projects, not some CAD file going to a PCB factory for a batch run.  KNCminer would not be interacting with the foundry, as they didn't design the chips.

Bitcoinorama
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July 30, 2013, 08:53:31 PM

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago.

Good. Presumably you have working prototypes in your lab checking EMC compliance as well as working on SEMCO/CE approvals.
You know of a miner manufacturer that waited for CE approvals?
Show us.


It depends how it's being sold. Consumer appliances which plugs into the mains may require approval depending upon the country. There are also EMC requirements so the miner will not disturb the TV, WiFi, or whatever of your neighbor.

They're not cutting corners, or risking their business. This isn't being marketed as a consumer product, but  business to business, even so if it is to be sold in the European Union, they won't skip on a necessary requirement. Avalon were v.cheeky sending the items as research products:

https://www.gov.uk/ce-marking

That was the what the Raspberry Pi foundation tried initially, but it did not work out that way. Several thousand units were stuck waiting for approval. Also I think they had to be modified due to EMC issues with the ethernet interface if memory serves me right. Glad to hear that KnC are not cutting corners avoiding issues like this and possible lawsuits in case of fire or other hazards.

R-pi had issues importing components if memory serves, so they had the products assembled abroad, and then imported assembled units, presumably they meet as they are being used in schools now...

EDIT: I always thought the 'Chinese export' thing was a myth!:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/tag/ce-compliance

The 'development board' thing mentioned here, also explaining the problems R-Pi ran into is exactly what Avalon have been doing;

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/878

Apparently there is a max limit of 2,000 units to be classed as a dev boards...

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Bitcoinorama
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July 30, 2013, 09:00:01 PM

Good to hear that they have taped out. Presumably they have working prototypes in the lab and are ckecking EMC compliance, getting CE approval, etc.

I don't think you need CE approval if customers have to provide their own PSU's.  Which I thought was why they went that route.

What does "tape out" mean?
Tape out is a BS term used by people that want to sound cool. In reality it's just the sending of the CAD files to the foundry to commence production, except there is a whole checking and consulting phase at the foundry that comes after they receive the CAD files which can take days or weeks, as these wafers are multi-million dollar projects, not some CAD file going to a PCB factory. Something KNCminer would not be doing, as they didn't design the chips.



Erk, you have seen this, right?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg2832504#msg2832504

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Anenome5
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July 30, 2013, 09:26:37 PM

Hi Guys

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."

We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team



Thanks for the update Smiley

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July 30, 2013, 09:31:51 PM

Hi Guys

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."

We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

I think I just heard dozens of upgrade orders go through.  <G>

That was nice of them to post the info on the forum.  This thread isn't exactly short. 



This is great news. Hopefully some pictures will follow shortly. Am not sure what the advantage to upgrade now vs. the end of August (deadline) is though...
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July 30, 2013, 09:41:31 PM

Sorry to interrupt the fight but one thing I consider important is details on power supply required so that upon delivery we can all have one ready to go.
Time is going to be crucial especially in the first month with diff increases etc. , you don't want to lose time hashing waiting for an item like that do you?
Personally I'd like to be shopping for mine now and be sure it's the right one.
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July 30, 2013, 09:45:42 PM

No, 100% you're right, for that part I'll apologise to Augusto despite the attack on me. His past is none of my business.

I did not attack you. By no way my opinion is an attack. It is just an opinion about your profile in this forum. I do not know who you are outside this forum. Even if I was aware of who you are, by no means I would bring details of your personal life into the discussion. However after I gladly left my opinion, you just pop up with some random photos from my past background. That indicates you were very affected by my opinion. To substantiate my opinion I presented some evidence which indicates you could be working for KnC. Then you became more infuriated and brought more false statements about my personal life, when you should bring evidence to prove my opinion wrong.

Well, at least you recognize that my past background has nothing to do with the subject discussed in this topic. Do it better than that and perhaps I will reward you with another 0.10 BTC.

 Wink

I don't need the reward, and in this instance I don't deserve it. Please take the time to read through the thread and inform yourself instead of jumping to wild accusations and name calling. I appreciate it's a monster, with the earlier half definitely the more revealing. Believe it or not, my intentions are sincere.

Hopefully we can both learn something from this, I definitely crossed the line, your past is your past and is nobody's concern. I've removed the offending posts, and links. A few people have rubbed me up the wrong way recently, and you're right, your opinion did affect me. Sorry. Lesson learned. Peace. Wink

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erk
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July 30, 2013, 09:47:34 PM

Sorry to interrupt the fight but one thing I consider important is details on power supply required so that upon delivery we can all have one ready to go.
Time is going to be crucial especially in the first month with diff increases etc. , you don't want to lose time hashing waiting for an item like that do you?
Personally I'd like to be shopping for mine now and be sure it's the right one.

They would have had to build a unit to report the actual power consumption, so your question would be answered in September.

If you can't get an appropriate PSU from a local PC shop in less than an hour you must be in the 3rd. world somewhere.

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July 30, 2013, 09:59:40 PM

Hi Guys

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."

We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

Woot!!!

Debating about upgrading my October Mercury to a Saturn or Jupiter even. Thoughts?
I'm hesitant only because I went from 4 jallys to a Single with BFL and I'm currently kicking my ass in because of it. Overall, it was a waste of money to upgrade. I may even lose~ money at this rate because they're taking so long.
Not upgrading with KNC because of what BFL did is a bit like not trusting your new girlfriend because the last one cheated on you.

You've got to mentally segregate the two relationships. Don't act once bitten with your new girl who hasn't yet given you any reason to distrust her.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
augustocroppo
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July 30, 2013, 10:02:44 PM

Sorry to interrupt the fight but one thing I consider important is details on power supply required so that upon delivery we can all have one ready to go.
Time is going to be crucial especially in the first month with diff increases etc. , you don't want to lose time hashing waiting for an item like that do you?
Personally I'd like to be shopping for mine now and be sure it's the right one.

Hey, not a problem! There is a "large Technical announcement coming next week":

Hi Guys

Sorry for butting in in your discussion but don't buy any power supplies yet.

We will have a large Technical announcement coming next week. Where we will give even more accurate Power figures and GH/s.

It will be a significant announcement which I hope will make all of our customers happy. and no before you ask I wont reveal any details before that newsletter goes out Smiley

again please don't buy a 1200W power supply you simply will not need one that powerful or expensive.

Sam
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July 30, 2013, 10:15:57 PM

Far from it I've insisted you pay by credit card and call your issuing bank and ensure they will cover your ass after the Paypal 45 day window shuts. Mine will. I rang Barclays and recorded the lady in the fraud department on loudspeaker to be super sure. If anything I was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments. Read the damn thread.

Oh really, so would you share that with all us? I will be glad to hear such conversation.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment

Quote
Our payment system will allow the following payment methods:

 PayPal

 Bitcoin via Bitpay

 Bank transfer

By the way, why KnC did not included "credit card" in their list of accepted payment method if 'was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments'?

You really are daft, aren't you. Paypal is their CC processor. I'm sure there are people here who paid with CC and can verify it works.

And I've read this entire thread and seen nothing to indicate Bitcoinorama is shilling. Your attack is nonsensical and without evidence.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
Anenome5
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July 30, 2013, 10:19:56 PM

Sorry to interrupt the fight but one thing I consider important is details on power supply required so that upon delivery we can all have one ready to go.
Time is going to be crucial especially in the first month with diff increases etc. , you don't want to lose time hashing waiting for an item like that do you?
Personally I'd like to be shopping for mine now and be sure it's the right one.
They've said only not to rush out and buy a 1000 watt PSU "you won't need anything that big."

I think 1kw was their worst-case-scenario + room for error figure. I think they're shooting for ~750.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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July 30, 2013, 10:21:00 PM

Sorry to interrupt the fight but one thing I consider important is details on power supply required so that upon delivery we can all have one ready to go.
Time is going to be crucial especially in the first month with diff increases etc. , you don't want to lose time hashing waiting for an item like that do you?
Personally I'd like to be shopping for mine now and be sure it's the right one.

Hey, not a problem! There is a "large Technical announcement coming next week":

Hi Guys

Sorry for butting in in your discussion but don't buy any power supplies yet.

We will have a large Technical announcement coming next week. Where we will give even more accurate Power figures and GH/s.

It will be a significant announcement which I hope will make all of our customers happy. and no before you ask I wont reveal any details before that newsletter goes out Smiley

again please don't buy a 1200W power supply you simply will not need one that powerful or expensive.

Sam

Thanks. I missed that in the fight Smiley
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July 30, 2013, 10:22:58 PM

Ok, I have to admit I'm starting to become genuinely curious with KNC.

I've been quietly skeptical, mostly due to a lack of solid information coming out about the project, and am hugely suspicious of any 28nm ASIC right now due to costs involved, but I have to admit that seeing the Paypal payment option as enticing, mainly for their consumer protection mechanisms.

Shipping end of September huh ? Guess I'll place my order near end of August and cross my fingers.

Good luck gentlemen. Pulling for you folks. Will be quite the technical achievement should this project come to fruition.
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