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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006488 times)
timmmers
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September 03, 2013, 08:26:19 PM
 #8321

Whoa, someone just put 15 BTC on Yes >_>



Someone knows something. Think it might be Sam or Andreas? If I were them and I knew we'd be hitting our target, I'd place that bet. Heck ya. That's the whole purpose of an information market, to monetize sharing expectations. And only someone really confident or with insider info is gonna spend $1500... $1950 betting on this

(damn, bitcoin being worth more than $100 is really screwing with my estimated math these days Tongue)

Or someone's either a gambling addict or they've got a massive amount of BTC and 15BTC isn't a lot to them.  I would have put more in but right now I'm doing all my bitcoin "gambling" with labcoin stock Grin  Paying off a lot better then this bet will, so far.

I did put in a yes bet earlier when the odds were better.


well KNC has 44 days to get my miner to me. Let the countdown begin

Even if they had working prototype it would be hard to assembly+ship all preordered units in time - look at BFL

Heard of automated manufacturing lines (as opposed to BFL's manual labour crew)?

Actually, my guess would be they're doing manual assembly.  The thing is - unlike what BFL tried to do with insourcing that, there are actually companies out there you can hire to do your box building for you.  Foxconn is the well known example, but companies like that exist everywhere.  Here in the U.S as well as sweeden, I'm sure.

The cost and time to setup an automated line aren't insubstantial, and for a small run of a few hundred to a thousand units it might be cheaper to hire humans to do it, even at sweedish rates.  You can see their system will be quite simple to install.  You just take a metal frame, stick in 2-5 circuit boards (depending on the thing thing) Connect a few wires, and then screw in the heatsinks.  It shouldn't take more then 5 minutes. They don't even need to attach the PSU.

The cost is tiny. A new program ..nothing more. Seen it done dozens of times. That's the whole point of CNC machines. If you have the machine capable of doing the work, the program is all you need and a few jigs that can be made in a day. Everything that is manufactured is made this way now. Nothing can be dome by hand in volume due to cost and quality control...and don't try me on that subject if you want something to shit out of tomorrow Wink
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September 03, 2013, 09:17:16 PM
 #8322



Interesting how YES is slowly gaining more popularity as time passes, and it should be the other way around regarding closing resolution date and lack of solid proofs. Maybe the optimists are collectively cheering each other  Roll Eyes

No, people are buying because there's no reason to doubt KnC will deliver.  They furthermore anounced that all products in the current Oct order queue would be shipped by october 15th, two weeks earlier then the previous expected deadline. Why would they move up delivery date if they didn't think they could make it?

It's also possible that people with insider knowledge are betting.

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September 03, 2013, 09:17:28 PM
 #8323

The cost is tiny. A new program ..nothing more. Seen it done dozens of times. That's the whole point of CNC machines. If you have the machine capable of doing the work, the program is all you need and a few jigs that can be made in a day. Everything that is manufactured is made this way now. Nothing can be dome by hand in volume due to cost and quality control...and don't try me on that subject if you want something to shit out of tomorrow Wink

I am pretty sure that given the volume KNC won't be using automated unit assembly (PCB will be assembled by automated pick & place machines).   All bitcoin hardware is relatively low volume (for now).  Hundreds or even low thousands of units doesn't warrant automated assembly of major components.  BFL problem isn't hand assembly it is a) they over promised (lied), b) they didn't met power/cooling project and had to scrap everything and redesign, c) they have been utterly incompetent in maintaining supply chain.   BFL with automated assembly wouldn't be any further along in the backlog.  It simply would have cost more.

KNC using off the shelf power supplies (although I wish it was mounted internally), and using the same components in all three units is smart and will make assembly easier.  It would be stupid for KNC to invest money (and more importantly) time setting up and testing some high speed automated assembly system given the relatively low volumes.  We are talking less than a dozen components for hundreds (or at most a thousand) high cost units.  Hand assembly is perfect.  For something like a printer which has a lot more components, is sold in millions of units annually, and has low margins (at best tens of dollars ea) the upfront cost of automated assembly makes sense.
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September 03, 2013, 09:21:42 PM
 #8324

The cost is tiny. A new program ..nothing more. Seen it done dozens of times. That's the whole point of CNC machines. If you have the machine capable of doing the work, the program is all you need and a few jigs that can be made in a day. Everything that is manufactured is made this way now. Nothing can be dome by hand in volume due to cost and quality control...and don't try me on that subject if you want something to shit out of tomorrow Wink

I am pretty sure that given the volume KNC won't be using automated unit assembly (PCB will be assembled by automated pick & place machines).   All bitcoin hardware is relatively low volume (for now).  hundreds or even thousands of units doesn't warrant automated assembly on components.  BFL problem isn't hand assembly it is a) they  over promised, b) they had to scrap existing design because it was over power and cooling specs, c) they have been utterly incompetent in maintaining supply chain.   BFL with automated assembly wouldn't be any further along in the backlog.

KNC made a couple of good decisions.  The first is that it uses a standard ATX power supply.  I wish it was internal but the fact that it is user supplied is smart.  Anything that can be supplied cheaper off the shelf should be.  BFL on the other hand used "custom" brick power supplies for their units and multiple times ran out.  The second thing is that KNC used a single design for all 3 products.  All three products have the same power board, same case, same case fans, and same controller.  Then each product uses the same ASIC boards and heatsinks the only difference is in the number of units.

It would be stupid for KNC to invest in some high speed automated assembly given the relatively low volumes.  We are talking less than a dozen components.  Hand assembly is perfect.

They may be using a CNC machine to mill the cases.  But that's not going to help install the circuit boards in that case.  You'd need a robot capable of grabbing the boards, placing them, screwing them down, then grabbing the heatsinks, screwing those in, and connecting the wires, and you'd need to program all of that in.

It's certainly doable. But my guess it would be less effort to hand the machine-made parts (cases and PCBs) off to humans to do the detail work of screwing everything together and connecting wires.

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September 03, 2013, 11:04:33 PM
 #8325

I am pretty sure that given the volume KNC won't be using automated unit assembly (PCB will be assembled by automated pick & place machines).   All bitcoin hardware is relatively low volume (for now).  Hundreds or even low thousands of units doesn't warrant automated assembly of major components.  BFL problem isn't hand assembly it is a) they over promised (lied), b) they didn't met power/cooling project and had to scrap everything and redesign, c) they have been utterly incompetent in maintaining supply chain.   BFL with automated assembly wouldn't be any further along in the backlog.  It simply would have cost more.

Having had boards done.. no, they better be using automated unit assembly. It's not expensive.
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September 03, 2013, 11:09:34 PM
 #8326

I am pretty sure that given the volume KNC won't be using automated unit assembly (PCB will be assembled by automated pick & place machines).   All bitcoin hardware is relatively low volume (for now).  Hundreds or even low thousands of units doesn't warrant automated assembly of major components.  BFL problem isn't hand assembly it is a) they over promised (lied), b) they didn't met power/cooling project and had to scrap everything and redesign, c) they have been utterly incompetent in maintaining supply chain.   BFL with automated assembly wouldn't be any further along in the backlog.  It simply would have cost more.

Having had boards done.. no, they better be using automated unit assembly. It's not expensive.

For a run of 1000 or less units?  That works out to ~20 a day.  Sure. 
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September 03, 2013, 11:21:38 PM
 #8327

Its a sure fire win for YES

28 NO <-> 46 YES

Get in on the action

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/

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September 04, 2013, 01:43:27 AM
 #8328


Hi guys, I posted a topic here about KNCminer Jupiters november delivery firts orders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286588.0

Cheers!
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September 04, 2013, 01:45:49 AM
 #8329


Hi guys, I posted a topic here about KNCminer Jupiters november delivery firts orders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286588.0

Cheers!
-anykeywhy- 

please please stop.
timmmers
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September 04, 2013, 01:48:54 AM
 #8330

I am pretty sure that given the volume KNC won't be using automated unit assembly (PCB will be assembled by automated pick & place machines).   All bitcoin hardware is relatively low volume (for now).  Hundreds or even low thousands of units doesn't warrant automated assembly of major components.  BFL problem isn't hand assembly it is a) they over promised (lied), b) they didn't met power/cooling project and had to scrap everything and redesign, c) they have been utterly incompetent in maintaining supply chain.   BFL with automated assembly wouldn't be any further along in the backlog.  It simply would have cost more.

Having had boards done.. no, they better be using automated unit assembly. It's not expensive.

For a run of 1000 or less units?  That works out to ~20 a day.  Sure. 

Where do those numbers come from? It's a lot more than that. Also they are modular units that should probably be suitable for the next gen if they planned well which seems likely. The cases are nothing to manufacture, probably a design that already exists slightly modified to suit...they are probably already done. I think we'll be surprised how quickly they fly out once they get rocking. Smiley
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September 04, 2013, 01:54:18 AM
 #8331

haha he took it seriously

Although it's funny.  In responding to the sarcastic answer, he answered his own question.  Obviously he was able to do the research himself, he just lacked sufficient motivation at the time.

BTW: Has everyone setup their mining addresses and/or worker IDs on the KnC website?  Unlike Avalon, they are going to pre-configure and do the burn in test on customer addresses/pool accounts.   Those hashes coming in will be the major signal that they're ready to start shipping.

I have not yet. 

Can someone explain how ASIC miner devices' software are generally set up?  So let's say I have bitcoin-qt running on my laptop.  I have the miner power supply connected and hook the miner up to my laptop via USB (or maybe my router via ethernet?)  Then what?


The miner is suppose to have its own operating system I believe so it would be like a Raspberry Pi as far as initial connections but maybe easier with a web interface and the RPi has a web interface as well.  With a Raspberry Pi one would fire it up then look at one's router DHCP table and see what address is assigned.  Then one would telnet in, like with Putty, or SSH in and again like with Putty.  Then it depends on what mining software it will be running I suppose.  Like Minepeon, one fires up the Raspberry Pi then tenets or ssh's in.  Cgminer will already be running.  One would then give the command sudo screen -r and the cgminer interface is displayed showing how it woke up and what devices have been found and are hashing and stats about that process.  Since there won't be hotplugging more devices in, they may use bfgminer instead of cgminer or, like zTex, use some other mining software.



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YipYip
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September 04, 2013, 02:26:24 AM
 #8332

Honestly i think these guys are the goods .....

Definenately looking like they are "THE ONE"

aka matrix
aka as the respected company who will be the APPLE of the CRYPTO world
aka BFL killer
aka AVALON killer

Will they meet the deadline as per bit bet ...hmmm ~ only 3 more weeks ... I think they may JUST miss it by a week

So it should be a win for me Yay !! ....a sweet sweet 4.4 btc .....and a win for the miners who ordered just a very slight delay Cheesy

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September 04, 2013, 02:57:59 AM
 #8333

Cant wait for kncminer gen 2. How many of you are ready to plug in Uranus?
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September 04, 2013, 03:19:36 AM
 #8334

Cant wait for kncminer gen 2. How many of you are ready to plug in Uranus?

We got our self a smartass here!  Cheesy Angry

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September 04, 2013, 03:21:43 AM
 #8335

Cant wait for kncminer gen 2. How many of you are ready to plug in Uranus?

demonmaestro
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September 04, 2013, 03:37:57 AM
 #8336

i dont get it.
Is that fiber or copper cable? looks copper but i cannot tell.

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September 04, 2013, 03:53:05 AM
 #8337

Looks like copper to me, transatlantic cable almost.

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September 04, 2013, 05:25:22 AM
 #8338

 Then one would telnet in, like with Putty, or SSH in and again like with Putty.

Did they specify that they will give users shell access at all? All I've seen is that they will give users web access to configure cgminer running on the embedded system. Are they using the OrSOC OpenRISC development board for this? Unfortunately all the links with more details at the OrSOC website http://www.orsoc.se/?p=127 are broken and return 404 - File or directory not found.
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September 04, 2013, 07:06:18 AM
 #8339

well if they use a Raspberry Pi. then its open game.

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September 04, 2013, 07:08:04 AM
 #8340

well if they use a Raspberry Pi. then its open game.

it's not an R-pi, it's their own design.  I'm sure they'll give people root access if they want it, but they're designed to be very plug'n'play.

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