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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012816 times)
pitkaran
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September 04, 2013, 11:41:14 AM
 #8381


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286588.0

Readability of OP should be improved now! Smiley
Thank you all again for sharing suggestions and my apologizes again for *firewworks*!!! Grin

Cheers!
-anykeywhy-

Cheesy

Looked at that thread, thanks for the laughs Smiley
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timmmers
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September 04, 2013, 12:44:29 PM
 #8382



If you are in the EU, not at all. Sweden is an EU company, and any EU registered company is considered an intra-community operator - you can buy and sell goods without any VAT between EU registered companies.

Because of my work I constantly deal with EU companies and I can guarantee you that there is no VAT in anything I buy/sell in the EU. In fact, my KNC miners have 0% VAT on the invoice.



That is simply not true. You always have to pay VAT in the EU. As to when, that strongly depends on certain factors. Consumers do it immediately, small businessses (in Germany) have to pay until the 10th of the next month and big companies do it at the end of the year.

no. the vat a business has to pay is the vat it GETs FROM customers. a business does not pay vat, it´s the customers. the business only collects it. when you buy soemthing as a business the invoice contains vat, but you deduct this vat from the vat you are collecting from your customers (= no vat). if you buy something from another country that is in the EU for your business, there will not be any vat.

+1. Mota, I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. Business inputs aren't Vat-able. A business can sell to another business within the EU without charging VAT as long as the recipient business quotes their EU VAT number, but it does have to be a cross border trade to be able to do this.
So, if you're mining as a business, do you pay VAT on the mined coins?

Edit: That would be the consequence.

You pay VAT on things you PURCHASE, not on things you create. Not all things you purchase attract VAT either, gold and currency for example don't among many other items.
VAT is a way for government to collect tax from the consumer by using businesses to do this. VAT is also 20% not 23% here. If you can claim the VAT back, you can more than likely claim the computer equipment as a capital business expense and get some of the cost back from the tax man too.
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September 04, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
 #8383

A lot of people look at the calcs and see naff figures and worry that maybe they'll end up with a rig that's late and not going to return their investment.

I bet those same people would feel much worse if they instead had a PRE order BFL 5GHz rig instead? Not delivered? Well this may surprise you , and make you wonder what your KnC rig might attract in , say, December? In hand?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ButterflyLabs-BitForce-5-GH-s-Jalapeno-Btc-Bitcoin-Miner-Mining-SC-ASIC-Preorder-/171117996618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d76d6a4a

People seem to be keen to pay more than RRP for the damned thing despite all we know. Maybe there's going to be some decent value in the KnC rigs for longer than we imagined?
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September 04, 2013, 01:04:03 PM
 #8384

A lot of people look at the calcs and see naff figures and worry that maybe they'll end up with a rig that's late and not going to return their investment.

I bet those same people would feel much worse if they instead had a PRE order BFL 5GHz rig instead? Not delivered? Well this may surprise you , and make you wonder what your KnC rig might attract in , say, December? In hand?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ButterflyLabs-BitForce-5-GH-s-Jalapeno-Btc-Bitcoin-Miner-Mining-SC-ASIC-Preorder-/171117996618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d76d6a4a

People seem to be keen to pay more than RRP for the damned thing despite all we know. Maybe there's going to be some decent value in the KnC rigs for longer than we imagined?

Quote
At the current rate this unit will generate $1,669 in one month!  Don't be left behind when Bitcoin mining goes to the next level

HAHAHA holy misleading.

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

> 5GH/s =

per Day   ฿0.03   $3.74
per Week   ฿0.20   $26.19
per Month   ฿0.88   $113.75

Hardly $1669 a month. And that's at current rates. By the time the guy gets the miner, could be months from now, it'll be worthless. LOL everyone who is bidding is just clueless at how bitcoin works. They're probably thinking 'ohshiii a money printing machine. I'm set for life. I can finally retire!'. lol.
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September 04, 2013, 01:16:37 PM
 #8385

A lot of people look at the calcs and see naff figures and worry that maybe they'll end up with a rig that's late and not going to return their investment.

I bet those same people would feel much worse if they instead had a PRE order BFL 5GHz rig instead? Not delivered? Well this may surprise you , and make you wonder what your KnC rig might attract in , say, December? In hand?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ButterflyLabs-BitForce-5-GH-s-Jalapeno-Btc-Bitcoin-Miner-Mining-SC-ASIC-Preorder-/171117996618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d76d6a4a

People seem to be keen to pay more than RRP for the damned thing despite all we know. Maybe there's going to be some decent value in the KnC rigs for longer than we imagined?

Quote
At the current rate this unit will generate $1,669 in one month!  Don't be left behind when Bitcoin mining goes to the next level

HAHAHA holy misleading.

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

> 5GH/s =

per Day   ฿0.03   $3.74
per Week   ฿0.20   $26.19
per Month   ฿0.88   $113.75

Hardly $1669 a month. And that's at current rates. By the time the guy gets the miner, could be months from now, it'll be worthless. LOL everyone who is bidding is just clueless at how bitcoin works. They're probably thinking 'ohshiii a money printing machine. I'm set for life. I can finally retire!'. lol.

Yeah, sad really. Goes to show you that what you're used to in the way of knowledge isn't what's going on elsewhere. The sad part is that although we know that is a con, it's not provable. Some poor bugger is going to think exactly what you said Sad
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September 04, 2013, 01:39:40 PM
 #8386

But on the bright side, it does mean that there is a residual market for a miner even after the well-informed have calculated that its economic life is over. Someone will want it - and that could make the difference making your money back or not.
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September 04, 2013, 01:44:55 PM
 #8387

People does not think!

WHY should anyone sell a device which are generating $1600+ per month for about $ 400 Huh

make sense, doesn´t it? Smiley
timmmers
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September 04, 2013, 01:48:00 PM
 #8388

People does not think!

WHY should anyone sell a device which are generating $1600+ per month for about $ 400 Huh

make sense, doesn´t it? Smiley


Simple answer. Greed. They put on their greed goggles and see only a huge profit. All sense is lost.
Same type of person who sends money to claim their Nigerian gold mine. lol
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September 04, 2013, 01:50:00 PM
 #8389

People does not think!

WHY should anyone sell a device which are generating $1600+ per month for about $ 400 Huh

make sense, doesn´t it? Smiley


Simple answer. Greed. They put on their greed goggles and see only a huge profit. All sense is lost.
Same type of person who sends money to claim their Nigerian gold mine. lol

or to KNC. . .. lol. I kid. I kid Roll Eyes
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September 04, 2013, 01:56:57 PM
 #8390

VAT should be included in the price on anything(that has VAT added, witch is pretty much everything in Sweden) that you buy from a company based in Sweden.
The VAT that is added is 25% on these type of things in Sweden, so the price without VAT is 80% of what you paid, for example on the    6 995 usd miner it's price is in reallity 5596 USD and has 1399 USD added in VAT(Moms). If your in another EU country thats all you have to pay. Theoretically if your in another country with lower VAT you may be able to get the Swedish VAT you paid for the miner refunded if you collect the miner in person in Sweden and manage to convince the costums it's a tourist mergendise you bought, but that is a bit far fetched i guess, anyway you will then get a refund on the Swedish VAT (1399 USD) and instead pay (your lower) VAT in your own country if you succed with that....

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September 04, 2013, 01:58:36 PM
 #8391

 Then one would telnet in, like with Putty, or SSH in and again like with Putty.

Did they specify that they will give users shell access at all? All I've seen is that they will give users web access to configure cgminer running on the embedded system. Are they using the OrSOC OpenRISC development board for this? Unfortunately all the links with more details at the OrSOC website http://www.orsoc.se/?p=127 are broken and return 404 - File or directory not found.

Can't answer the question.  This was just a stab at explaining how it might be done to someone apparently with even less information than I.



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September 04, 2013, 01:59:05 PM
 #8392

well if they use a Raspberry Pi. then its open game.

Not what I said.



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jlsminingcorp
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September 04, 2013, 02:47:24 PM
 #8393

You pay VAT on things you PURCHASE, not on things you create. Not all things you purchase attract VAT either, gold and currency for example don't among many other items.
VAT is a way for government to collect tax from the consumer by using businesses to do this. VAT is also 20% not 23% here. If you can claim the VAT back, you can more than likely claim the computer equipment as a capital business expense and get some of the cost back from the tax man too.

Hi Timmers, sounds like you might be in the UK (sorry if I've made a gross assumption here). I've been wondering this for a while and you (or others) may have an accountancy background and may be able to advise. My understanding is that if you're a VAT registered business in the UK then you can buy items for the business without VAT (or claim it back in your quarterly VAT return), but you are then obliged to collect VAT at 20% for any goods or services that you provide to your customers (unless they are also a VAT registered businesses) and fill in a quarterly VAT return for HMRC where all of this is calculated.

I presume that if you are buying mining hardware for your business and your business does not use this to provide a VATable service to a customer then you presumably don't need to pay any VAT (which I think is what you're saying above). You would just need to pay tax on the income that the miner generates for the business. The only danger with this setup might be that if the business is not charging anybody VAT (so not providing any other goods or services) then HMRC might revoke the business' VAT-registered status. If you were to buy a miner without VAT and then sell it to a customer then it's clear that you would need to charge the customer VAT on the price of the miner. Here's the difficult one - if your business buys a miner and then sells shares in that miner (or shares in what it produces depending on your outlook) to customers then do you need to collect VAT on top of the price of the shares that you sell? If the miner technically remains the property of the business, but shares are sold that return a proportion of the miner's output (perhaps with some hosting fee applied by the business) then what part of that transaction is VAT applicable to (is the hosting fee the service)? Any thoughts anybody?

(By the way, when I say "you" above I'm talking about a hypothetical business by the way, not you or anybody else personally)

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September 04, 2013, 03:19:06 PM
 #8394

A couple of weeks ago I asked KnC about their status with Cgminer. They replied pretty fast and here's what they said:

Quote
Sam will be contacting Kano and will be posting in the forum soon.

Our devices will be shipped with CGMiner preinstalled, this has been further configured to work with our miners. You have access to the Linux platform via SSH to install any other mining software you wish.

Regards,
Liam

Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
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September 04, 2013, 03:31:16 PM
 #8395

Radical, ssh access!, woohooooo
not just a miner really.  So-Dimm - Linux with Web GUI & ssh access
Ethernet AND USB with updatable & expandable innards
Certainly the most advanced miners ever offered
nice
Makes other brands look like toys IMHO.


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September 04, 2013, 03:34:37 PM
 #8396

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?

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September 04, 2013, 03:40:12 PM
 #8397

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?

KNC Jupiter for 5000 is mid November Delivery, not October, but will be closer to 500 gh/s if you've been paying attention, Cointerra has pretty much admitted they will be late as well, but yes, if you calc the diff doubling every month like it has of late, you will see plenty of justification.


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ImI
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September 04, 2013, 03:44:00 PM
 #8398

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?


u know. two months is a lot these days.
btc_uzr
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let's have some fun


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September 04, 2013, 03:45:02 PM
 #8399

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?


I'd like to point out the increasing difficulty as main factor in regards to the difference in value/price.

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
baloo_kiev
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September 04, 2013, 04:03:37 PM
 #8400

It's September, so I guess you guys already have a working prototype Grin

PGP: 6EC48BA7
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