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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012016 times)
Bitcoinorama
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September 07, 2013, 06:01:02 PM
 #8721

I'm pissed, because can't believe, that KNC will fulfill their promise..we will see in 2 weeks™ who was right.

Hold up, you're pissed because you have problem believing that a real engineering firm is capable of engineering as promised, despite the fact they have under promised everything and haven't relied on sales hype, hired a marketing team, or demanded funds like every other competitor wanting to take your money. To the complete contrary they are so confident in their own ability they offer refunds to anyone nervous (or whose wives have found out). They must be doing something right, seeing as Scandanavia's largest bank; SEB now partners with them. SEB is not limited to Sweden, it's found throughout Norway, Finland, Denmark and Germany largely at an institutional level.

A company that lies and burns customers has no future, a company that delivers above expectation gains a shit load of attention. What do think ORSoC want, money or recognition? Recognition brings a lot more money, with SEB taking notice, I wouldn't be surprised is you'll see even more interesting partnerships. That's what ORSoC want, the ability to pick and choose interesting projects over standard consultations.

My background is engineering, that's what real engineers do. Predominantly socially inept and piss poor at public relations, they don't promise anything unproven, and rely on scientific data and statistical significance. These guys have major industry links from over ten years of ASIC design - real experience as a design firm standing on their own two feet and winning contracts competitively - not claims, or lost amongst hundreds of other guys working on bit parts of the same large projects as part of a massive firm - and more importantly hardware design. None of the competitors have created high spec hardware before, themselves, none, despite a few new entrants with some IC experience. That's a huge difference.

More so you are assuming negativity based on no fact other than your experience of non-engineers promising sales hype.

What's worrying is the associated negativity here is based on assumptions by others with even less experience choosing not to read how KnC have chosen to approach this. May I suggest a book for some of you to read over the next two weeks instead of fear mongering? It's one of the course texts for my masters when I studied, it's by no means long-winded, although does fetch a pretty penny on Amazon as it is the staple text for many renowned engineering schools;

Total Design: Integrated Methods for Succesful Product Engineering by Stuart Pugh.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Total-Design-Integrated-Successful-Engineering/dp/0201416395

Read how real engineers approach product design and you'll appreciate what I was looking for when I visited KnC, and ORSoC. It will also put you off (save you) from some other current bad decisions, whilst explaining why and where there have been so many failures to date by the parties involved so far in Bitcoin mining.

That's not to say what they are attempting isn't an industry first, this will be a record for ASiC design if they pull this off by the end pf Sept, but there is no surprise that all the competing 28nm lot are now attempting to copy KnC, just too late, or lying by marketing best case simulated scenarios, something no real engineers would do, especially hardware designers, which none of the rest have on board, hence the profiteering on chip sales (the largely inexpensive and unsophisticated aspect of hardware design - by inexpensive I mean per chip, the initial NRE costs, but the rest are overpromising unachievable realistic hashrates and aside KnC they are all offloading hardware design on some other poor sod for a very good reason, they have no expertise there). It's going to be great fun watching people figuring out how to cool those power hungry chips. Fact is you vcan make chips in the TH if you like, in theory. Powering and cooling them is another matter. Which is why the rest are knocking them out in volume and washing their hands of that problem, and warranties.

Some of you guys really need to read up on how to best approach your decision processes. It's easy to call someone a fanboy, or a shill, or a scammer, but now it's all starting to fit into place, I've remained relatively silent in this thread, because really and truly there is not much more for me to say, other than I'll respect those with the integrity to apologise when the time comes, over those that don't, and I've never pushed or told anyone to purchase anything, just read up, visit, undertake your own research, and understand what KnC and ORSoC are trying to achieve. I've just shared my research and haven't been paid a penny so far. On the company side I'Ve advised them with respect to under promising, over-delivery, some marketing and future product revisions and pushed for secure payment methods. All of that is in this thread for all to see, and through email comms. They have listened and people are happy, especially me. I'll forgive if they are a week late, but they have ensured margins upon margins exist not to be the clusterfuck you're are familiar with. I haven't invested my money in such non-engineering related firms, and I have yet to make one bad call on this forum despite being quite outspoken. For that Xialla you term me a fanboy. Those that listened to me have not been scammed, and won't be. My risk tolerance level is set to sensible common sense, and educating myself throughout the decision process. I'm honest, not stupid, and it's amusing to see the reasons behind people who doubt me. We'll see in a few months who navigated this ship through stormy waters and survived intact. Be wary of anyone that claims to be an engineer, then over promises based on simulation as opposed to fact, removes refund options, avoids any accountability, warranty, secure payments, and changes their terms and conditions after sale has taken place. True scientists will never disguise facts with dishonesty. Peace.

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September 07, 2013, 06:13:06 PM
 #8722

O'rama..."It's going to be great fun watching people figuring out how to cool those power hungry chips."

+1


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huadylmate
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September 07, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
 #8723

- Reduced their prices for future batches, thus people waiting for delivery at the old price must feel ripped off to know they have that much profit margin to play with.



Maybe you can do refund and order with the new price if you dont hurry  Tongue
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September 07, 2013, 06:51:47 PM
 #8724

Are you kittenings me? Legit questions and resonable worries are idiotic whining in this thread? Looks to me like KnC fanboys are getting nervous Smiley
It's legit to worry when they start breaking promises. Not when they continue to be exactly in the scope of where they and we expect them to be given known info.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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September 07, 2013, 06:58:50 PM
 #8725

And why [...] would you expect to see either a working prototype or a revealed chip. None of us who've actually read every communication from KNC to the public and every page of this thread expect that.

Because (IMO) it would be absolutely RETARDED to fab a chip, make thousands of them and populate a bunch of PCBs without actually testing a prototype at some point. Further, posting such a thing COMPLETELY validates what KnC is trying to do.

I understand your optimism, but let's not be too naive, shall we?  
When time is of the essence, you plan your chip buy for time, not for testing.

If they wanted to get engineering samples / small run done then make changes, it would add probably two months to the delivery time-frame.

Instead, they proofed their code on the Mars miner FPGA. That's all you need to do to proof an ASIC. This isn't a goddamn Pentium chip where a thousand things could go wrong.

A bitcoin hashing chip is redundant in the extreme.

You figure your yield is 80% or w/e it is, and then 80% of your chip will work fine. You build in re-rerouting and circuit redundancy, and make public 80% of your chip's theoretical hashing speed.

Then you need only test the chip once, or maybe not at all, after it's on the board. Since the chips are segregated by board, if you get a few that really are bad, you set them aside (for your own use, thus they're expecting probably a 5% reject pile, which they can hash with themselves later but aren't saleable).

They're testing the actual PCBs. They're testing an FPGA chip on their actual PCBs. They do not and will not have chips until they come back from the assembler, probably two weeks before shipping. Which is probably one week from now.

And anyone stupid enough to wait to see chips under this plan that we've all known about since the beginning, will not earn a dime with these machines.

People saying "where are the chips" are actually implying a scam accusation, and that's the most insulting part. We know who these people are, know everything about them. We know they're part of Orsoc, an incredibly reputable company. We know they build an FPGA miner in a mere 6 weeks, from scratch. How many people can pull that off? That's outright engineering chops.

Don't come here asking to see chips when showing chips was never part of the plan.

Unlike with other mining companies.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
Bitcoinorama
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September 07, 2013, 07:00:43 PM
 #8726

- Reduced their prices for future batches, thus people waiting for delivery at the old price must feel ripped off to know they have that much profit margin to play with.



Why? when, BTC stability dependant, they will earn greatly more than they will save on November pricing.

The fact they halted sales protects customers way more than any other protection gimmick used to disguise lack of refunds, warranty and changes in terms by other less respectable entities.

You're not locked in, or held hostage with KnC, you're free to act on whatever decision you like. KnC is clearly a real company standing by it's claims and protecting it's customers funds.

They aren't responsible for your decisions though, man up, you are.

Furthermore they gave over a months warning stating exactly that they intended to offer a reduced price for November to remain competitive. Quite frankly I see the second batch shipping before their next competitor ships their first.

If I was a less scrupulous competitor, I'd want to lock in customer funds, remove the option of a refund, state outrageous claims based on simulations over fact to encourage those that won't research to invest, perhaps I'd add some additional marketing hype surrounding false protection of your funds, offloading as much responsibility and delay on some other party, but I would never, ever offer you real third party payment protection from a major financial institution; be it Visa, MasterCard, PayPal or a large respected investment bank unconnected to the financial collapse. If I was really devoid of integrity I'd lie about unfeasible shipping dates, reword them as 'anticipated' after sales took place, change my terms and give a flakey excuse as I remove warranty...oh wait.

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September 07, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
 #8727

Xialla   ...  At first I was upset about your recent comments, but now I realize you are simply mentally or emotionally challenged...

Come on now... in the end it's just a difference of opinions that's all.  Let's just use the "ignore" button and keep things civil.  Smiley
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September 07, 2013, 07:04:07 PM
 #8728

We all have orders here, but some of us are acting like men and not a bunch of little pussies.

You make an important decision to invest your money, you lay that money down and you take a chance.
Real men don't spend the next 5 months acting like little bitches, crying and whining and second guessing themselves.

Stand up for your decision and wait patiently and quietly like the rest of the big boys.

If you want to be a pussy like Kuroth, ask for a refund and you will get it immediately...there is literally zero risk.


TL;DR? Man up and stop whining, your father probably should have slapped you more for acting like a whining little bitch when you were a child.
Exactly, thank you. If you're getting nerves at this stage in the game you were never a strong hand to begin with. We made a calculated risk months ago and it still looks like a smart move today.

Some of the people here are pathetically controlled by their own emotions and fears and acting irrational.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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September 07, 2013, 07:05:40 PM
 #8729

I myself, like others too, have had the experience of asking legitimate questions and immediately being condescended to and now name called by the regulars in this thread (i.e. pussies, bitches) hence the fan club moniker. Civility is a two way street. I hope KnC delivers on time and as promised as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to blindly let them hold thousands of dollars of my money and not ask a probing question here or there.
No, you're going to invest thousands of dollars and not do your own research. Instead you're going to ask questions answered dozens of pages ago to us who have done our due diligence, and you wonder why you're being condescended to, asking us to do your research for you?

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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September 07, 2013, 07:14:06 PM
 #8730

I'm pissed, because can't believe, that KNC will fulfill their promise..we will see in 2 weeks™ who was right.
You have no evidence, at all, that they will be late. Yet you're pissed about your own fears.

You are a complete wuss, unable to control your emotions, and acting irrationally.

Guess it takes nerves of steel to roll with the big boys in bleeding-edge bitcoin mining. Have some of you actually lost sleep over this? The hell is wrong with you.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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September 07, 2013, 07:27:46 PM
 #8731

I'm pissed, because can't believe, that KNC will fulfill their promise..we will see in 2 weeks™ who was right.
You have no evidence, at all, that they will be late. Yet you're pissed about your own fears.

You are a complete wuss, unable to control your emotions, and acting irrationally.

Guess it takes nerves of steel to roll with the big boys in bleeding-edge bitcoin mining. Have some of you actually lost sleep over this? The hell is wrong with you.

^-- ZING! On point.

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September 07, 2013, 07:31:29 PM
 #8732

I'm pissed, because can't believe, that KNC will fulfill their promise..we will see in 2 weeks™ who was right.
You have no evidence, at all, that they will be late. Yet you're pissed about your own fears.

You are a complete wuss, unable to control your emotions, and acting irrationally.

Guess it takes nerves of steel to roll with the big boys in bleeding-edge bitcoin mining. Have some of you actually lost sleep over this? The hell is wrong with you.

You lose sleep when you get other people involved in something you aren't fully confident in yourself as they have said they have.
Losing your own money is one thing, breaking even over time is fine too...but if you promised a large profit to a group of friends and they put money into mining to find it's not such a golden egg anymore...that's not going to be much fun is it? A lot of group buys are going to suffer in the coming glut of ASICs and what happens when they all come online...short term at least.

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September 07, 2013, 07:32:52 PM
 #8733

Living through the next month is going to be a learning experience for a few people on here. Still, they'll come out stronger if they hold their nerve and learn something valuable about themselves if they don't.
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September 07, 2013, 07:34:45 PM
 #8734

it's the same 8 trolls over and over with the same trolling and the same feeding to them

have you checked out soniq's groupbuys??  he sold shares to around 26 Jupiters so that must mean plenty of people on board with KNC yet this thread is the den of trolls



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September 07, 2013, 07:36:02 PM
 #8735

How much time (in general) is needed to pack the chips? From wafer to finsihed IC?
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September 07, 2013, 07:44:08 PM
 #8736

How much time (in general) is needed to pack the chips? From wafer to finsihed IC?

Week or two I reckon. Depends who, and how many are ahead of you in the queue, and when you made the order for packaging based on what the fab promised you with respect to their estimated wafer completion time.

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September 07, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
 #8737

I myself, like others too, have had the experience of asking legitimate questions and immediately being condescended to and now name called by the regulars in this thread (i.e. pussies, bitches) hence the fan club moniker. Civility is a two way street. I hope KnC delivers on time and as promised as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to blindly let them hold thousands of dollars of my money and not ask a probing question here or there.
No, you're going to invest thousands of dollars and not do your own research. Instead you're going to ask questions answered dozens of pages ago to us who have done our due diligence, and you wonder why you're being condescended to, asking us to do your research for you?
I've been reading this thread since it opened -- but thank-you for illustrating my point.  Grin
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September 07, 2013, 08:45:56 PM
 #8738

Well, anyone who is afraid and wants to let go of his september/august order is very welcome to pm me. I will gladly take them off your hands. I hope that quells the thirst for paranoid shit out there. Wink

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September 07, 2013, 08:48:01 PM
 #8739

I understand the Mercury in a box that can hold 3 more modules was simplicity.  Will upgrade modules be possible?  Something on the order of a snap-in box to add an additional module or will the initial module installation be it?



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September 07, 2013, 08:53:19 PM
 #8740

I understand the Mercury in a box that can hold 3 more modules was simplicity.  Will upgrade modules be possible?  Something on the order of a snap-in box to add an additional module or will the initial module installation be it?


Again, for the illiterate and lazy: read the posts and the knc news. there was an upgrade kit. now there is not.

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