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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007816 times)
Biomech
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September 01, 2013, 02:12:52 AM
 #8021

Why even try to reason with a troll?  They're like Democrats - they don't let inconveinient things like facts interfere with their vision of reality...

On the other hand, as we all know Republicans are widely known for their rationality.

I consider it a good day when I manage to piss off a Democrat and a Republican in the same sentence. It usually involves logic Smiley
Your foto reminds me of Al Jourgensen  Cheesy

I really should know that name. But it's not coming to me Tongue Several people have told me I look like Tommy Shaw, and I'm good with that!  Cheesy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jourgensen

pfft. I knew I should have known the name. I love the song "Stigmata". See what happens when you post in your sleep?

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
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Biomech
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September 01, 2013, 02:27:40 AM
 #8022

...
That's not merely ROI, which is in fact ANY income generated, it's a profit ABOVE breakeven, even given the cost of electricity. That time frame of breakeven and positive ROI is an accountant's wet dream, not a pessimistic outlook. Three months to see a profit above breakeven on expensive equipment is stupendous. You aren't merely spreading FUD here, you are showing a complete lack of any sort of business sense. ...

First, a simple ROI formula: ROI = (Gains – Cost)/Cost.  That's the definition.  The term is otherwise defined by context.  When ROI is given in dollars instead of percentage or fraction, assume ROI = Gains - Cost.

Breakeven in three month is great for investments which do not depreciate over time, or depreciate slowly.
Mining gear depreciates quickly.  
Its profitability over time also drops at an exponential rate.  If its costs are not completely recouped within three months, it is unlikely that the costs will ever be recouped.

Example for the math-challenged:

If you slaughter a cow, and take the beef to the market, most of your profits will happen in the first few hours.  At the end of the day, the meat will be suitable only for dogs, and profits will be insignificant.  Do not expect any more profits the following day, the day after that, or the day after that day -- your meat is rotten, no moar monyz 4 U.

If you do not make ROI on your slaughtered cow in the first day, you don't make ROI in a month, two months, or even a year.  

Math.

And for the meat-challanged: If you slaughter a cow, the meat gains in worth over time, since beef gains worth if it is well hung. Some even say it is best if it is hung over a longer period.  Like with bitcoins Wink

Eww?
The best way to make beef tender?  Beat your meat.

Actually, part of the grading process is how long it was aged. Fresh slaughtered beef is much less tender and more bland tasting than aged beef. The longer it's aged, the higher the grade. I actually liked your analogy, though, just because I have worked with cattle (the bovine sort as opposed to the the two legged sort) and quickly came to realize that most of a cow's value is after it's dead Smiley That being said, it's unlikely that these devices will stop working that quickly. If they make breakeven, then the diff would have to continue to skyrocket for well over a year even by that ridiculous 66 percent per month increase before the electrical cost outstripped the income to a detrimental degree. And that also assumes that bitcoiin remains stable or declines in value. Over the term we have been able to observe, neither condition seems likely.

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Phoenix1969
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September 01, 2013, 06:03:33 AM
 #8023


It's been a long road, but it looks like we're almost there!


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klee
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September 01, 2013, 07:04:09 AM
 #8024

Check out how many coiledcoins and geistgeld a Jupiter would merged-mine per day.

Where you going to buy that many to hold instead of mining them?

You already missed out on merged mining lots of i0coin and groupcoin per day at low difficulty, where did you buy those instead of mining them?

-MarkM-

I can mine them with erupters!
arousedrhino
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September 01, 2013, 07:27:29 AM
 #8025

I don't buy miners in BTC, I buy them in USD. If I make more USD than I paid I have a positive return.

But you'll have more USD if you just buy the BTC and hold them. Why do you want less USD?

But you can buy the miner with a credit card so you get a cashback kickback and you are not directly buying btc through your bank sccount, lets face it those acccounts are watched.
timmmers
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September 01, 2013, 10:49:23 AM
 #8026

This thread is about KnC miners so why even mention buying BTC vs mining, particularly when trading BTC with leverage makes much more sense if that's the game you're into?

As was already mentioned sensibly, apples vs oranges. Personally I'll mine BTC for the future and trade the hell out them for profit separately with flat (which in the last few days has been pretty wonderful and much more sun than watching a miner sitting humming away Smiley ) .

FeedbackLoop
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September 01, 2013, 11:10:54 AM
 #8027


Risking flak, an analysis I've been doing is how badly the thing is going for me compared with buying BTC Jun the 3rd when I placed my order. Putting european average VAT, Jun 3 exchange rate from mtgox (for buy BTC VS buy miner scenario) and present difficulty from the 700+ TH/s:

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/d0a309b862

It would look worse with bitstamp or so exchange rate and this is with 100% uptime.

I really hope KNC will over deliver. Right now we are still exposed to continued difficulty increase risks. Risking further flak (sorry, this is real money for me and I really need to re-asses all possibilities) can anyone of the refunders please post how fast they got their refund?






crumbs
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September 01, 2013, 11:21:19 AM
 #8028

...
And for the meat-challanged: If you slaughter a cow, the meat gains in worth over time, since beef gains worth if it is well hung. Some even say it is best if it is hung over a longer period.  Like with bitcoins Wink

Eww?
The best way to make beef tender?  Beat your meat.

Actually, part of the grading process is how long it was aged. Fresh slaughtered beef is much less tender and more bland tasting than aged beef. The longer it's aged, the higher the grade. I actually liked your analogy, though, just because I have worked with cattle (the bovine sort as opposed to the the two legged sort) and quickly came to realize that most of a cow's value is after it's dead Smiley That being said, it's unlikely that these devices will stop working that quickly. If they make breakeven, then the diff would have to continue to skyrocket for well over a year even by that ridiculous 66 percent per month increase before the electrical cost outstripped the income to a detrimental degree. And that also assumes that bitcoiin remains stable or declines in value. Over the term we have been able to observe, neither condition seems likely.

No one is arguing that mining is a bad investment if miners break even.  It's the likelihood that miners *won't* break even that bugs us.  Sixty-six percent a month is *nothing* compared to the difficulty growth now -- the difficulty growth is ONE HUNDRED AND TEN percent (110%) for the last month, 208% for 60 days and 441% for 90 days.  Sixty-six percent would be *nice*.

Of course, i can't convince you with numbers, charts or logic.  As the saying goes, rational arguments never convinced anyone.
timmmers
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September 01, 2013, 11:36:14 AM
 #8029


Risking flak, an analysis I've been doing is how badly the thing is going for me compared with buying BTC Jun the 3rd when I placed my order. Putting european average VAT, Jun 3 exchange rate from mtgox (for buy BTC VS buy miner scenario) and present difficulty from the 700+ TH/s:

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/d0a309b862

It would look worse with bitstamp or so exchange rate and this is with 100% uptime.

I really hope KNC will over deliver. Right now we are still exposed to continued difficulty increase risks. Risking further flak (sorry, this is real money for me and I really need to re-asses all possibilities) can anyone of the refunders please post how fast they got their refund?








Adjust that to 450 from 400 and things change radically (and the way KnC are talking we could be seeing closer to 500). That's looking like it may be the real picture. I'd say although you may need the money you'd be wise to think hard about jumping ship when exchange rates and hash rate of the rigs could rise and the projected difficulty shown on that calculator are so pessimistic long term (see many wise posts about the unlikelyhood of it rising so much ).

We're always exposed to difficulty risks, it's a risky game to play. Even buying BTC could wipe you out. That's why the rewards can be so good.
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September 01, 2013, 12:07:00 PM
 #8030

Adjust that to 450 from 400 and things change radically (and the way KnC are talking we could be seeing closer to 500). That's looking like it may be the real picture. I'd say although you may need the money you'd be wise to think hard about jumping ship when exchange rates and hash rate of the rigs could rise and the projected difficulty shown on that calculator are so pessimistic long term (see many wise posts about the unlikelyhood of it rising so much ).

We're always exposed to difficulty risks, it's a risky game to play. Even buying BTC could wipe you out. That's why the rewards can be so good.

KNC wrote: "greater than 30% performance increase " that is more than 520 for a jupiter.

It's strange to me that this  announcement was almost completely ignored here!
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September 01, 2013, 12:16:38 PM
 #8031

Adjust that to 450 from 400 and things change radically (and the way KnC are talking we could be seeing closer to 500). That's looking like it may be the real picture. I'd say although you may need the money you'd be wise to think hard about jumping ship when exchange rates and hash rate of the rigs could rise and the projected difficulty shown on that calculator are so pessimistic long term (see many wise posts about the unlikelyhood of it rising so much ).

We're always exposed to difficulty risks, it's a risky game to play. Even buying BTC could wipe you out. That's why the rewards can be so good.

KNC wrote: "greater than 30% performance increase " that is more than 520 for a jupiter.

It's strange to me that this  announcement was almost completely ignored here!

320*1.3 =~ 433 not 520

Roi in 2020 Wink
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September 01, 2013, 12:17:55 PM
 #8032

Adjust that to 450 from 400 and things change radically (and the way KnC are talking we could be seeing closer to 500). That's looking like it may be the real picture. I'd say although you may need the money you'd be wise to think hard about jumping ship when exchange rates and hash rate of the rigs could rise and the projected difficulty shown on that calculator are so pessimistic long term (see many wise posts about the unlikelyhood of it rising so much ).

We're always exposed to difficulty risks, it's a risky game to play. Even buying BTC could wipe you out. That's why the rewards can be so good.

KNC wrote: "greater than 30% performance increase " that is more than 520 for a jupiter.

It's strange to me that this  announcement was almost completely ignored here!

Probably because you cannot depend on these figures as an real fact. If costumers have products in hand and would post these findings then yes it would be a hot topic, but for now 400 Ghs is what we know you have in hand when deliverd to you.

1ANbJxTmuWoA7bm4yuUMA4MvPh2qhazMHu
In need of a BTC Miner ?
https://www.kncminer.com/?resellerid=607
nightengale
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September 01, 2013, 12:21:39 PM
 #8033

320*1.3 =~ 433 not 520

Roi in 2020 Wink

Where on earth did these numbers come from? Looks like you need to read a little more before posting...
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September 01, 2013, 12:25:53 PM
 #8034

Adjust that to 450 from 400 and things change radically (and the way KnC are talking we could be seeing closer to 500). That's looking like it may be the real picture. I'd say although you may need the money you'd be wise to think hard about jumping ship when exchange rates and hash rate of the rigs could rise and the projected difficulty shown on that calculator are so pessimistic long term (see many wise posts about the unlikelyhood of it rising so much ).

We're always exposed to difficulty risks, it's a risky game to play. Even buying BTC could wipe you out. That's why the rewards can be so good.

KNC wrote: "greater than 30% performance increase " that is more than 520 for a jupiter.

It's strange to me that this  announcement was almost completely ignored here!

320*1.3 =~ 433 not 520

Roi in 2020 Wink

Why 320?
fragout
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September 01, 2013, 12:37:24 PM
 #8035

777 th/s network now. 270th/s rise in one week Sad wtf is all this coming from??? At least the price of btc is rising

                               
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Bitcoinorama
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September 01, 2013, 12:41:06 PM
 #8036

777 th/s network now. 270th/s rise in one week Sad wtf is all this coming from??? At least the price of btc is rising

Bitfury, or blackmarket Bitsyncom.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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September 01, 2013, 12:46:31 PM
 #8037

Come On knc protect the network with stop delivered miner at December and leave the other companies to f... The network
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September 01, 2013, 12:49:25 PM
 #8038

Adjust that to 450 from 400 and things change radically (and the way KnC are talking we could be seeing closer to 500). That's looking like it may be the real picture. I'd say although you may need the money you'd be wise to think hard about jumping ship when exchange rates and hash rate of the rigs could rise and the projected difficulty shown on that calculator are so pessimistic long term (see many wise posts about the unlikelyhood of it rising so much ).

We're always exposed to difficulty risks, it's a risky game to play. Even buying BTC could wipe you out. That's why the rewards can be so good.

KNC wrote: "greater than 30% performance increase " that is more than 520 for a jupiter.

It's strange to me that this  announcement was almost completely ignored here!

320*1.3 =~ 433 not 520

Roi in 2020 Wink

Why 320?


Becouse the base declared performance was 320, when they introduced jupiters...
Then they said that it will be more, 400
Now they say that it could  be more than 320->400 (25%), 30%
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September 01, 2013, 12:50:51 PM
 #8039

520 is
400*0.30+400=520
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September 01, 2013, 12:51:17 PM
 #8040

Go knc go go go
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