Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[ImI]

I had high hopes that Knc wouldn't not over promise and under deliver, but if they don't ship all September orders in September they really aren't much different than all the other ASIC hardware manufacturers, which is kind of sad.

hmmm...thats kinda bullshit to me. lets say say deliver at 5th october instead of 30th september. ok, everybody is dissapointed big time and we are flaming and shouting all day long. BUT to state that KNC would then be the same as lets say BFL or Avalon with their delays ranging from several months to over a year is just a little less than BIG bullshit.

I don't have a KncMiner pre-order, but may order from them in the future if they do what they say and say what they do. Simply stating that everything is fine and on time when they have to ship hundreds of orders to ship in two weeks and haven't even demonstrated a working chip is bullshit, but I'm sure you're looking at this situation through rose colored glasses.

All they need to do is be honest, give updates, under promise, and over deliver. Being silent now and acting like everything is fine if they know they will be late (and they have to know by now) is simply unacceptable IMHO...

it may or may not be acceptable and (as i said in this thread already) they may not be able to ship in september, yes, but to argue that this makes them the same as avalon or bfl is still bullshit. and you know its bullshit.

How do you figure?  If they already know they're going to be late and they don't say so, they are untrustworthy.  

Lets assume you are right and we call them "untrustworthy" cause they are late and wont deliver in september, OK? And that makes them the same as BFL which were late over a fuckn year? Are you nuts?

All that matters to me is their trustworthiness at this point.  Whether they're a day or a month or a year late is impossible for us to know right now.  But their trustworthiness is the biggest and best indicator.

if you want to post about trustworthiness feel free and go ahead. maybe you didnt notice that you quoted my reply to kendog from a discussion about knc being the same as "all the other asic companies" that screwed the community.

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[-Redacted-]

How do you figure?  If they already know they're going to be late and they don't say so, they are untrustworthy.  

Personally I'd rather them be overt crooks and just lie, than be silent pussies (afraid to lie overtly but not afraid to just bury crucial information that their customers need).

You know that its a BUSINESS right? As in they are doing this to make a profit. How would it help them if they came out now and said "were going to be a couple weeks late". Refunds would skyrocket, meanwhile in the next couple days after that statement, things are back on track. Its best to just say nothing and carry on. Just be PATIENT. come October 15th, if they haven't delivered a single unit, then feel free to bitch. in the meantime, put on your big boy pants and sit tight.

Wow, people are so jaded after the BFL and Avalon debacles, that they think it's OK for a completely unproven company to cheat their very first customers.

Let's not mince words.  If you say "Shipping in september" and you don't ship in September, you've cheated your customers.  This isn't a fucking toaster that they're shipping, it's a bitcoin miner whose value is decreasing exponentially.  Ship date means *everything* and to lie about that is to cheat your customers.

So let's see if they ship in September, and put off all this "liar and cheater" name calling until October some time   According to my calendar this is just September 15th, that leaves them more than two weeks, still, to ship my 8 Jupiter orders.  

[jmw74]

Looks quite busy to me.

It would take them 30 seconds to say "still on schedule".  

If you try calling them they will say exactly that.  Source: I actually called a few days back asking for some info. So far, in all occasions, they have ALWAYS picked up the phone.

We are all eager to see if they deliver like they said they would but right now it just sounds like you are spreading FUD.

That is nice, but not the same as posting publicly.  They can very easily lie to you on the phone, since no one can prove whether they ever said such a thing.  It's a lot harder to lie in public, since they'll be held accountable for whatever they say.

[demonmaestro]

So let's see if they ship in September.  According to my calendar that leaves them more than two weeks, still, to ship my 8 Jupiter orders.  

Some of ya got too much money.. rather that be BTC or your standard currency. Wanna share?  

[DimensionsOfHell]

How many times do they need to point out "everything is on schedule" before people are satisfied? Or better yet, just start bitching that "all they say is everything is on schedule! We want more info! They are frauds!" blah blah blah.

They've already mentioned several times they are on schedule, unless they state otherwise, that statement DOES NOT CHANGE.

Unless you have insider info that they are running behind, and are in fact going to be delayed, please STFU. There are too many pages full of sh*t already.

Please, stop crying foul until they've done something to deserve it.



And comparing KnC to BFL... no one deserves that sh*tty comparison. BFL is THE worst company I've dealt with. I have an order for a 4.5GH/s Jalapeno from March. I have still yet to receive an estimated date as to when I might receive it, let alone actually receive it. Refund? I don't think they know what that word means. Customer service? They take weeks for simple replies which are not helpful.

Unless KnC misses their delivery date till way past the end of this year, they will still be far superior to BFL.


_{Someone needs to start a class-action lawsuit against BFL.}

[jmw74]

How do you figure?  If they already know they're going to be late and they don't say so, they are untrustworthy.  

Personally I'd rather them be overt crooks and just lie, than be silent pussies (afraid to lie overtly but not afraid to just bury crucial information that their customers need).

You know that its a BUSINESS right? As in they are doing this to make a profit. How would it help them if they came out now and said "were going to be a couple weeks late". Refunds would skyrocket, meanwhile in the next couple days after that statement, things are back on track. Its best to just say nothing and carry on. Just be PATIENT. come October 15th, if they haven't delivered a single unit, then feel free to bitch. in the meantime, put on your big boy pants and sit tight.

Wow, people are so jaded after the BFL and Avalon debacles, that they think it's OK for a completely unproven company to cheat their very first customers.

Let's not mince words.  If you say "Shipping in september" and you don't ship in September, you've cheated your customers.  This isn't a fucking toaster that they're shipping, it's a bitcoin miner whose value is decreasing exponentially.  Ship date means *everything* and to lie about that is to cheat your customers.

So let's see if they ship in September, and put off all this "liar and cheater" name calling until October some time   According to my calendar this is just September 15th, that leaves them more than two weeks, still, to ship my 8 Jupiter orders.  

Hang on now, let me say for the record that I am not accusing KNC of lying OR cheating, at all.

I'm just saying the silence looks bad, and that it is in their best interest to post "still on schedule", whether it's the truth or not.

[-Redacted-]

So let's see if they ship in September.  According to my calendar that leaves them more than two weeks, still, to ship my 8 Jupiter orders.  

Some of ya got too much money.. rather that be BTC or your standard currency. Wanna share?  

Sure, I have a couple of BFL miniRig orders - Feb 2013 - that I'll sell you cheap...

[-Redacted-]

How do you figure?  If they already know they're going to be late and they don't say so, they are untrustworthy.  

Personally I'd rather them be overt crooks and just lie, than be silent pussies (afraid to lie overtly but not afraid to just bury crucial information that their customers need).

You know that its a BUSINESS right? As in they are doing this to make a profit. How would it help them if they came out now and said "were going to be a couple weeks late". Refunds would skyrocket, meanwhile in the next couple days after that statement, things are back on track. Its best to just say nothing and carry on. Just be PATIENT. come October 15th, if they haven't delivered a single unit, then feel free to bitch. in the meantime, put on your big boy pants and sit tight.

Wow, people are so jaded after the BFL and Avalon debacles, that they think it's OK for a completely unproven company to cheat their very first customers.

Let's not mince words.  If you say "Shipping in september" and you don't ship in September, you've cheated your customers.  This isn't a fucking toaster that they're shipping, it's a bitcoin miner whose value is decreasing exponentially.  Ship date means *everything* and to lie about that is to cheat your customers.

So let's see if they ship in September, and put off all this "liar and cheater" name calling until October some time   According to my calendar this is just September 15th, that leaves them more than two weeks, still, to ship my 8 Jupiter orders.  

Hang on now, let me say for the record that I am not accusing KNC of lying OR cheating, at all.

I'm just saying the silence looks bad, and that it is in their best interest to post "still on schedule", whether it's the truth or not.

So how much communication do you need?  It's Sunday - which is not a work day - and they just posted pictures of building out their data center on Friday.  You can't deal with not hearing something for 48 hours?

it seems very odd to me that people with the least amount of skin in the game - or none at all - are the people hollering the loudest.

[ASIC-K]

How do you figure?  If they already know they're going to be late and they don't say so, they are untrustworthy.  

Personally I'd rather them be overt crooks and just lie, than be silent pussies (afraid to lie overtly but not afraid to just bury crucial information that their customers need).

You know that its a BUSINESS right? As in they are doing this to make a profit. How would it help them if they came out now and said "were going to be a couple weeks late". Refunds would skyrocket, meanwhile in the next couple days after that statement, things are back on track. Its best to just say nothing and carry on. Just be PATIENT. come October 15th, if they haven't delivered a single unit, then feel free to bitch. in the meantime, put on your big boy pants and sit tight.

Wow, people are so jaded after the BFL and Avalon debacles, that they think it's OK for a completely unproven company to cheat their very first customers.

Let's not mince words.  If you say "Shipping in september" and you don't ship in September, you've cheated your customers.  This isn't a fucking toaster that they're shipping, it's a bitcoin miner whose value is decreasing exponentially.  Ship date means *everything* and to lie about that is to cheat your customers.

So let's see if they ship in September, and put off all this "liar and cheater" name calling until October some time   According to my calendar this is just September 15th, that leaves them more than two weeks, still, to ship my 8 Jupiter orders.  

Hang on now, let me say for the record that I am not accusing KNC of lying OR cheating, at all.

I'm just saying the silence looks bad, and that it is in their best interest to post "still on schedule", whether it's the truth or not.

So how much communication do you need?  It's Sunday - which is not a work day - and they just posted pictures of building out their data center on Friday.  You can't deal with not hearing something for 48 hours?

+1000000

[jmw74]

How many times do they need to point out "everything is on schedule" before people are satisfied? Or better yet, just start bitching that "all they say is everything is on schedule! We want more info! They are frauds!" blah blah blah.

That's a fair point, but as the deadline approaches, they would *have* to have news of some kind.

For example, the chips are finished, the boards are being assembled, the boards are en route to us, etc.  We are rapidly approaching the time where, if none of those things have happened, they are simply cheating us by not saying so.  And if they *have* happened, it is in their best interest to say so, right?  So why wouldn't they?

They still have ~2 weeks, so conceivably they could go from unfinished chips to shipping in that time.  So they aren't in over their heads, yet.  But how small a window do you think they can fit all that in?  Certainly not much smaller than that.  Each day of silence looks worse and worse.

[demonmaestro]

Sure, I have a couple of BFL miniRig orders - Feb 2013 - that I'll sell you cheap...

..... like?

[ASIC-K]

How many times do they need to point out "everything is on schedule" before people are satisfied? Or better yet, just start bitching that "all they say is everything is on schedule! We want more info! They are frauds!" blah blah blah.

That's a fair point, but as the deadline approaches, they would *have* to have news of some kind.

For example, the chips are finished, the boards are being assembled, the boards are en route to us, etc.  We are rapidly approaching the time where, if none of those things have happened, they are simply cheating us by not saying so.  And if they *have* happened, it is in their best interest to say so, right?  So why wouldn't they?

They still have ~2 weeks, so conceivably they could go from unfinished chips to shipping in that time.  So they aren't in over their heads, yet.  But how small a window do you think they can fit all that in?  Certainly not much smaller than that.  Each day of silence looks worse and worse.

Ahem, ill just leave this here.

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-30

[jmw74]

How do you figure?  If they already know they're going to be late and they don't say so, they are untrustworthy.  

Personally I'd rather them be overt crooks and just lie, than be silent pussies (afraid to lie overtly but not afraid to just bury crucial information that their customers need).

You know that its a BUSINESS right? As in they are doing this to make a profit. How would it help them if they came out now and said "were going to be a couple weeks late". Refunds would skyrocket, meanwhile in the next couple days after that statement, things are back on track. Its best to just say nothing and carry on. Just be PATIENT. come October 15th, if they haven't delivered a single unit, then feel free to bitch. in the meantime, put on your big boy pants and sit tight.

Wow, people are so jaded after the BFL and Avalon debacles, that they think it's OK for a completely unproven company to cheat their very first customers.

Let's not mince words.  If you say "Shipping in september" and you don't ship in September, you've cheated your customers.  This isn't a fucking toaster that they're shipping, it's a bitcoin miner whose value is decreasing exponentially.  Ship date means *everything* and to lie about that is to cheat your customers.

So let's see if they ship in September, and put off all this "liar and cheater" name calling until October some time   According to my calendar this is just September 15th, that leaves them more than two weeks, still, to ship my 8 Jupiter orders.  

Hang on now, let me say for the record that I am not accusing KNC of lying OR cheating, at all.

I'm just saying the silence looks bad, and that it is in their best interest to post "still on schedule", whether it's the truth or not.

So how much communication do you need?  It's Sunday - which is not a work day - and they just posted pictures of building out their data center on Friday.  You can't deal with not hearing something for 48 hours?

it seems very odd to me that people with the least amount of skin in the game - or none at all - are the people hollering the loudest.

I preordered a Jupiter, that enough skin for you?  And I don't care about the datacenter, since I didn't buy hosting.  I'm sure the people who did are reassured that they won't get screwed by having no hosting, but they can still just as easily get screwed by having no hardware to put in it.

[jmevz]

Silently, patiently waiting. Difficulty just jumped, not much I can do about that. I'm not expecting any news from KNC until at least September 30th, no point worrying, whinging about it.

Relax people, they're on it! *faith*

[jmw74]

How many times do they need to point out "everything is on schedule" before people are satisfied? Or better yet, just start bitching that "all they say is everything is on schedule! We want more info! They are frauds!" blah blah blah.

That's a fair point, but as the deadline approaches, they would *have* to have news of some kind.

For example, the chips are finished, the boards are being assembled, the boards are en route to us, etc.  We are rapidly approaching the time where, if none of those things have happened, they are simply cheating us by not saying so.  And if they *have* happened, it is in their best interest to say so, right?  So why wouldn't they?

They still have ~2 weeks, so conceivably they could go from unfinished chips to shipping in that time.  So they aren't in over their heads, yet.  But how small a window do you think they can fit all that in?  Certainly not much smaller than that.  Each day of silence looks worse and worse.

Ahem, ill just leave this here.

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-30

Yeah yeah, I saw it. Those were just examples.  My point was that whatever steps are left, they don't have much time to complete them.

[ASIC-K]

im just saying this isnt sony, making a new product for the thousandth time. This is a brand new company working on a difficult product for the first time. you knew what you were getting into, so just chill! Just be patient, otherwise yeah just go for the refund if you are worried about your money.

[jmw74]

Silently, patiently waiting. Difficulty just jumped, not much I can do about that. I'm not expecting any news from KNC until at least September 30th, no point worrying, whinging about it.

Relax people, they're on it! *faith*

Really?  Sept 30th?  So either you expect them to be late, or you expect the next update to be the tracking numbers?  

Personally I'm fine with them starting to ship late as long as they don't finish late  I ordered last month

[xstr8guy]

Looks quite busy to me.

It would take them 30 seconds to say "still on schedule". 

or is it you that is the "pussy" who cant wait calm and patiently and freaks out since you dont get a daily "everything is ok" hug from KNC.

I'm not freaking out, the "refund button" is just as effective today as the last time we got an update.

All I'm saying is that KNC should post an update.  By staying silent some people are going to hit that button.  Either KNC is honest or they're not.  If they are, they should post "still on schedule".  If they're not, they should post "still on schedule".

That logic is... well... no words... really?!

So does their being silent make them somewhere between honest and dishonest?  I'm just trying to figure this out.

My brain hurts.  

[jmw74]

im just saying this isnt sony, making a new product for the thousandth time. This is a brand new company working on a difficult product for the first time. you knew what you were getting into, so just chill! Just be patient, otherwise yeah just go for the refund if you are worried about your money.

A company whose motto, repeated ad nauseam, is "underpromise and overdeliver".   

I swear, people are just ridiculously jaded.  Is it so much to ask, to just DO WHAT YOU SAY YOU WILL DO?

If you are a new company working on a difficult product, DON'T MAKE PROMISES YOU CAN'T KEEP.  And KNC has repeatedly assured us that they wouldn't do that.  Granted that's just a meta-promise, but still.

[ASIC-K]

i dont believe the PROMISED anything.