Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jojo69]

Has anybody here ever bought BSV?

Please, be honest guys. I could do with a good laugh.

mined some yeeeears ago...as it turns out

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[fillippone]

CME did more BTC Options volume on Day 1 than Bakkt did today.
RIP Bakkt
Hardly knew you

Tiny bit early to judge, nonetheless gutting for Rekkt Bakkt

Bakkt trades options eventually settling into real Bitcoins.
CME   trades options eventually settling into shitcoin US Dollars.

Difference is not trivial.

Usual self-promoting ad:
Everything you wanted to know about BTC options but were afraid to ask!

Yeah, but in practice, is it really true?  Are we making a distinction without a difference?

Does BAKKT really have the bitcoins that they proclaim to have?

This is a naive question, bringing me some interesting other question, I will later try to answer.

Go for the naive part: Bakkt has the Bitcoin? YES.
How do I know? Contract specification.

When you own a future, you are constantly (well, at COB) called to margin your positions. This means that when you open a position in a future you are required to post a certain amount of cash along your position. You cannot open a position if you haven’t a big enough amount of cash in a collateral cash balance at the exchange. This amount is set by the exchange to cover the daily variation of the underlying (BTC, in this case, but this mechanism is valid for any underlying). At the end of the trading day this cash  balance is adjusted to reflect the P&L of the future position: money is poured in if your future position has gone in the right direction, otherwise the exchange take from this account the daily loss (and transfer it to your counterpart). In case the residual cash balance is lower than the initial margin, you are called to refill your margins (the infamous “margin call”, or to close forced into closing the position). This means two things: firstly the exchange has no credit risk: every counterpart has a daily margining so their exposure is not too big, second the P&L is actually credited daily in the exchange, so frauds are very limited.
So, can BAKKT exit scam you? Very unlikely, as this is the opposite way this business works (also:  BAKKT and maybe CME would suffer a tremendous reputation as risk putting their own existence at risk in case of a default).

The hard part in all this reasoning: is this margining all done in BTC? As per my explanation it should. But I don’t remember anything like that in the product specification. I will check later, when real life settles a little bit.
I am going also to put this answer in my futures related thread, as it is a point I would have liked to cover, but I actually didn’t.

[Elwar]

The Bitcoin SV pump is based on CSW's saying that the bonded courier actually showed up with the tulip trust keys. In other words, he says he's now in possession of 1 million or so BTC (half of which is supposed to go to the Kleimans).

https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-craig-wrights-courier/

If only there were a way for him to prove that they keys arrived and that he truly is (along with Kleiman) Satoshi.

If only...

You mean prove, cryptographically that he is Satoshi Nakamoto by signing a message?

That’s asking for too much

To be fair...he may not know how to do that.

Can someone explain that to him so he can prove he's Satoshi?

[JayJuanGee]

Good to see the price coming back.

I've been playing around with the Omni Layer and am fairly impressed. It seems like it was all built up for Mastercoin, then changed to Omni later and a lot of work was put into their web wallet...then everyone moved on to something else.
But fortunately they left some decent code and I can use it.

The plan is to have Ocean Builders credits that are like gift cards toward purchasing a floating home. Then create a new coin for every home built so people can own portions of each home.

Omni also provides a decentralized exchange so people can trade via the wallet with no middle man. All running on the Bitcoin blockchain.

Though we have a guy who works for Ethereum who is coming to join us who will likely be pushing for it all to be on smart contracts. And since he knows a hell of a lot more about it than I do, he will make a very compelling case.

Fortunately all of the owners are big Bitcoin holders so using Bitcoin is an easy sell.

Thus begins the battle of the coins for the future of seasteading.

One way pretty sure way to lose your bitcoins.  Might have to add that to "how I lost my bitcoins" thread.

That's it? Everyone worried that a criminal is going to steal your private keys to get your ownership of your house? Then what? Come on a dinghy to your house and tell you that you have to leave because they stole the keys fair and square?

You lose $1 million in BTC or a $1 million house...doesn't make holding your keys any different.

Your pumping of a business model that is NOT going to work is another way to lose bitcoin.

Would be dumb to invest in that crap before some kind of meaningful business model including jurisdictional agreement, which seems more pie in the sky thinking than anything... but hey, all innovations require some going out on the edge, yet the topic is NOT so much about bitcoin than it is about an idea..... and pie in the sky innovation that might be more receptive with the ethereum crowds, too....

Yeah, I know that you have some people in bitcoin who really like the idea and even have concerns for you in terms of the risks that you had taken, but still does not mean that there is anything equivalent of the idea to bitcoin or the ideas of bitcoin, even though you are making such connections (besides your ethereum additions) and even your having had been a bitcoin advocate....

Sure, I remember before you even got into seasteading, you had made a pretty gutsy move to invest all the proceeds from your sale of your house into bitcoin, and you were ridiculed about that for a while until it likely paid off pretty good, but still your BTC dedication or even your willingness to take risks or even to battle the PTB does not make seasteading a good investment or even the pumpening of such very relevant to this thread besides that some folks might be interested in the topic of your adventures and even personally respectful of you.

[P_Shep]

The Bitcoin SV pump is based on CSW's saying that the bonded courier actually showed up with the tulip trust keys. In other words, he says he's now in possession of 1 million or so BTC (half of which is supposed to go to the Kleimans).

https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-craig-wrights-courier/

If only there were a way for him to prove that they keys arrived and that he truly is (along with Kleiman) Satoshi.

If only...

You mean prove, cryptographically that he is Satoshi Nakamoto by signing a message?

That’s asking for too much

To be fair...he may not know how to do that.

Can someone explain that to him so he can prove he's Satoshi?

So when he subsequently fails to move any coins or sign any messages, how are the (what are we calling SV believers these days? Morons? Is it morons?) morons going to explain it?

[Biodom]

The Bitcoin SV pump is based on CSW's saying that the bonded courier actually showed up with the tulip trust keys. In other words, he says he's now in possession of 1 million or so BTC (half of which is supposed to go to the Kleimans).

https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-craig-wrights-courier/

If only there were a way for him to prove that they keys arrived and that he truly is (along with Kleiman) Satoshi.

If only...

You mean prove, cryptographically that he is Satoshi Nakamoto by signing a message?

That’s asking for too much

To be fair...he may not know how to do that.

Can someone explain that to him so he can prove he's Satoshi?

So when he subsequently fails to move any coins or sign any messages, how are the (what are we calling SV believers these days? Morons? Is it morons?) morons going to explain it?

how do you call a con that succeeds in making the con-artist gobs of money....

"The Sting"

[JayJuanGee]

That's my bullish input for all you moon boys anyway.

Not going to win too many friends in these parts by referring to peeps here (and assumingly HODLers and accumulators) as moon boys.  But, hey, do what you feel that you must.

Sorry, that BTC prices are moving against your anticipations  ...... Not really.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Has anybody here ever bought BSV?

Please, be honest guys. I could do with a good laugh.

Back in the days (before BCH fork) I had some BCH in Binance. I did not even realize that I had some there. One day for some reason I logged in my Binance and realized I had some BCH there but discovered this BSV shit too. At that time Craig was very high in his nonsenses and I thought why the fuck I will have them. So I exchanged them for BTC. The rate was shit but I do not regret.

[dragonvslinux]

That's my bullish input for all you moon boys anyway.

Not going to win too many friends in these parts by referring to peeps here (and assumingly HODLers and accumulators) as moon boys.  But, hey, do what you feel that you must.

Sorry, that BTC prices are moving against your anticipations  ...... Not really.

It's ok I'm not looking for friends, just to learn from others   You're right, it did go against how I anticipated though, not going to deny that  
Lucky I didn't get rekt™ shorting really. Didn't realise moon boys was offensive though, I thought anyone who believes a $100K BTC is possible in the near future was a moon boy by default. We're all moon boys? Maybe men still get offended by being called boys I dunno, I forget to keep check of these things.
Maybe moon men would be more appropriate, but doesn't have the ring to it.

[Elwar]

Good to see the price coming back.

I've been playing around with the Omni Layer and am fairly impressed. It seems like it was all built up for Mastercoin, then changed to Omni later and a lot of work was put into their web wallet...then everyone moved on to something else.
But fortunately they left some decent code and I can use it.

The plan is to have Ocean Builders credits that are like gift cards toward purchasing a floating home. Then create a new coin for every home built so people can own portions of each home.

Omni also provides a decentralized exchange so people can trade via the wallet with no middle man. All running on the Bitcoin blockchain.

Though we have a guy who works for Ethereum who is coming to join us who will likely be pushing for it all to be on smart contracts. And since he knows a hell of a lot more about it than I do, he will make a very compelling case.

Fortunately all of the owners are big Bitcoin holders so using Bitcoin is an easy sell.

Thus begins the battle of the coins for the future of seasteading.

One way pretty sure way to lose your bitcoins.  Might have to add that to "how I lost my bitcoins" thread.

That's it? Everyone worried that a criminal is going to steal your private keys to get your ownership of your house? Then what? Come on a dinghy to your house and tell you that you have to leave because they stole the keys fair and square?

You lose $1 million in BTC or a $1 million house...doesn't make holding your keys any different.

Your pumping of a business model that is NOT going to work is another way to lose bitcoin.

Would be dumb to invest in that crap before some kind of meaningful business model including jurisdictional agreement, which seems more pie in the sky thinking than anything... but hey, all innovations require some going out on the edge, yet the topic is NOT so much about bitcoin than it is about an idea..... and pie in the sky innovation that might be more receptive with the ethereum crowds, too....

Yeah, I know that you have some people in bitcoin who really like the idea and even have concerns for you in terms of the risks that you had taken, but still does not mean that there is anything equivalent of the idea to bitcoin or the ideas of bitcoin, even though you are making such connections (besides your ethereum additions) and even your having had been a bitcoin advocate....

Sure, I remember before you even got into seasteading, you had made a pretty gutsy move to invest all the proceeds from your sale of your house into bitcoin, and you were ridiculed about that for a while until it likely paid off pretty good, but still your BTC dedication or even your willingness to take risks or even to battle the PTB does not make seasteading a good investment or even the pumpening of such very relevant to this thread besides that some folks might be interested in the topic of your adventures and even personally respectful of you.

Our floating homes will not be high risk. As high risk as buying a houseboat.

Paying with bitcoin is not high risk. It is actually easier than trying to pay with dollars.

Holding partial ownership on the blockchain...ok, slightly new but not much difference from owning a timeshare. Probably cheaper.

It will still require a third party to hold the title as middleman to the Panamanian government. Each home can be sold in different ways, using the Bitcoin blockchain will be one of many options. You can pay with gold for one if you want.

I post in here about the different tech around Bitcoin such as Omni (RGB, Rootstock) because there is always talk about it but I have found very few people actually use most of these things so I would rather give a real world perspective on the tech that people read news articles about but don't really know if it is viable. Such things certainly affect the Bitcoin price. If some Bitcoin related tech is hyped, it would be good to know if it is as good as reported.

[JayJuanGee]

CME did more BTC Options volume on Day 1 than Bakkt did today.
RIP Bakkt
Hardly knew you

Tiny bit early to judge, nonetheless gutting for Rekkt Bakkt

Bakkt trades options eventually settling into real Bitcoins.
CME   trades options eventually settling into shitcoin US Dollars.

Difference is not trivial.

Usual self-promoting ad:
Everything you wanted to know about BTC options but were afraid to ask!

Yeah, but in practice, is it really true?  Are we making a distinction without a difference?

Does BAKKT really have the bitcoins that they proclaim to have?

This is a naive question, bringing me some interesting other question, I will later try to answer.

Go for the naive part: Bakkt has the Bitcoin? YES.
How do I know? Contract specification.

When you own a future, you are constantly (well, at COB) called to margin your positions. This means that when you open a position in a future you are required to post a certain amount of cash along your position. You cannot open a position if you haven’t a big enough amount of cash in a collateral cash balance at the exchange. This amount is set by the exchange to cover the daily variation of the underlying (BTC, in this case, but this mechanism is valid for any underlying). At the end of the trading day this cash  balance is adjusted to reflect the P&L of the future position: money is poured in if your future position has gone in the right direction, otherwise the exchange take from this account the daily loss (and transfer it to your counterpart). In case the residual cash balance is lower than the initial margin, you are called to refill your margins (the infamous “margin call”, or to close forced into closing the position). This means two things: firstly the exchange has no credit risk: every counterpart has a daily margining so their exposure is not too big, second the P&L is actually credited daily in the exchange, so frauds are very limited.
So, can BAKKT exit scam you? Very unlikely, as this is the opposite way this business works (also:  BAKKT and maybe CME would suffer a tremendous reputation as risk putting their own existence at risk in case of a default).

The hard part in all this reasoning: is this margining all done in BTC? As per my explaination it should. But I don’t remember anything like that in the product specification. I wil check later, when real life settles a litttle bit.
I am going also to put this answer in my future related thread, as it is a point I would have liked to cover, but I actually didn’t.

Thanks for the explanation.

I doubt that my question is as naive as you had proclaimed it to be, but hey time will tell if there is screwing around with what are supposed to be BTC reserves in such a way that they cannot be settled after BIG runs that might go on for extended periods of time, and the BIGGEST of tests would be periods in which bitcoin prices keep going up beyond expectations... including something like a period in June 2017 to December 2017 when, largely, the BTC top ended up being about 3x to 5x higher than the most bullish of expectations, and there could even be fuel in which we end up experiencing even more bullish runs when these kinds of BIG money are more in place and they want to screw over shorters in such a way that goes way the hell beyond expectations..

real world tests that might involve 10s of thousands of bitcoins over several months that are continuing to run against expectations and necessity to actually pay up rather than what it says on paper about what is supposed to happen.

[golden-dragon]

1. Finding a local bottom. Should be at 1300-3000 range.

2. As it dropped fast - as it should bounce fast to retest lost $6000 level and log trend at around 10000-20000. 2019-2020 AD.

3. Then it should fall back to ~6000 support. This should happen up to 2020 AD.

4. Go to new highs. Beyond 2020 year.

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/JSP3KDmy-New-long-term-prediction-as-I-see-it-now/

[Globb0]

The Bitcoin SV pump is based on CSW's saying that the bonded courier actually showed up with the tulip trust keys. In other words, he says he's now in possession of 1 million or so BTC (half of which is supposed to go to the Kleimans).

https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-craig-wrights-courier/

If only there were a way for him to prove that they keys arrived and that he truly is (along with Kleiman) Satoshi.

If only...

So is he saying it will be like back to the future? So some guy who says "we were betting at the office if someone would be at this crossroads in 2020"

[makrospex]

Has anybody here ever bought BSV?

Please, be honest guys. I could do with a good laugh.

OK, here is my good laugh:  

No, srsly:

I sold my BCH asap, six days after the fork, IIRC.
So i would not even have had "free" BSV.

As a part of a small trade, to help someone (...) out with some satoshis, really peanuts to most of you - and as a sign of good will - i bought BSV up to 20% of my past BTC "trading stash", which was in the tenths regions, and sold them with a little gain, around 10-15% percent up, about two weeks later when the market wasn't as "trading-friendly" any more. I cut the total gain in half and sent one half off to the receivers wallet, one half was left at the exchange. Fun fact: I received about the same amount by theymos for my art piece later. If some of you believe in Karma...

That's it. I wouldn't buy BSV for hodling, never ever.

EDIT: another classic: My first BTC transaction, as a test, was hijacked by a trojan and - of course - lost.
0,01 at $3k price levels, but still... I was glad that it happened so early, learned a lot by that and it wasn't a really big loss (in fiat equivalent, back then).

[makrospex]

Username beginning with D ?

I may disclose some private information about myself here more than occasionally, but never about anybody else.
Sorry

EDIT: I see some support at $8.7k
LIKE 

[jojo69]

What is this?  Like, three fucking hours without an AYH?

what the fuck?

[makrospex]

What is this?  Like, three fucking hours without an AYH?

what the fuck?

Some BTC going into alts?
Wait for the return  

EDIT: Is "alts" even appropiate any more in WO?
Alternatives? "s(c)ats", "shitoshis", "craps", "wankers" ... ?

[jojo69]

I'm just glad that LTC seems to have finally turned the corner

daddy's got bags

[Cryptotourist]

Daddy better get new bags soon.

[Hueristic]

CME did more BTC Options volume on Day 1 than Bakkt did today.
RIP Bakkt
Hardly knew you

Tiny bit early to judge, nonetheless gutting for Rekkt Bakkt

Bakkt trades options eventually settling into real Bitcoins.
CME   trades options eventually settling into shitcoin US Dollars.

Difference is not trivial.

Usual self-promoting ad:
Everything you wanted to know about BTC options but were afraid to ask!

Yeah, but in practice, is it really true?  Are we making a distinction without a difference?

Does BAKKT really have the bitcoins that they proclaim to have?

This is a naive question, bringing me some interesting other question, I will later try to answer.

Go for the naive part: Bakkt has the Bitcoin? YES.
How do I know? Contract specification.

When you own a future, you are constantly (well, at COB) called to margin your positions. This means that when you open a position in a future you are required to post a certain amount of cash along your position. You cannot open a position if you haven’t a big enough amount of cash in a collateral cash balance at the exchange. This amount is set by the exchange to cover the daily variation of the underlying (BTC, in this case, but this mechanism is valid for any underlying). At the end of the trading day this cash  balance is adjusted to reflect the P&L of the future position: money is poured in if your future position has gone in the right direction, otherwise the exchange take from this account the daily loss (and transfer it to your counterpart). In case the residual cash balance is lower than the initial margin, you are called to refill your margins (the infamous “margin call”, or to close forced into closing the position). This means two things: firstly the exchange has no credit risk: every counterpart has a daily margining so their exposure is not too big, second the P&L is actually credited daily in the exchange, so frauds are very limited.
So, can BAKKT exit scam you? Very unlikely, as this is the opposite way this business works (also:  BAKKT and maybe CME would suffer a tremendous reputation as risk putting their own existence at risk in case of a default).

The hard part in all this reasoning: is this margining all done in BTC? As per my explanation it should. But I don’t remember anything like that in the product specification. I will check later, when real life settles a little bit.
I am going also to put this answer in my future related thread, as it is a point I would have liked to cover, but I actually didn’t.

Well then what are the addresses?