Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[windjc]

Could be a few days of sideways at 14500 before the drop to 8k

If we drop, we will probably just miss touching the weekly 20. It'll disappoint bears who want to get as low as price as possible, but as long as we come close, it'll be good enough. So more like a drop to 9k if it happens this week. or 9500 if it happens next week.

[bones261]

A 890 coin wall at 13800 on Finex. Someone trying to protect their big short? Or is it Spoofy?

[JayJuanGee]

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

two things;

You actually think a phone is ever turned off?

And no, an online computer is no more secure than a phone...that is what the offline computer is for.

I used to hold a decent portion of my bitcoins in my blockchain.info wallet that was paired to my phone.  However, when BTC prices went from about $700 to $2,500 I began to become quite nervous about how much value that represented.  It took me a little while to change around my security and to move a considerable amount of that value to off-line solutions (mostly hardware wallets). 

The other thing that I noticed was that I had some value that was fairly insecure, and I was not really thinking about it too much because maybe it had represented less than $500 during the sub $700 BTC prices period - but then all of a sudden, those funds became real value and even caused me some worry to make sure that I secured them and then ultimately transfered a decent portion of those previous "crumbs" to largely off-line solutions.

I just want to say that this represents my frame of mind too... just a little while ago, I had money that wouldn't mind throwing around, and didn't care if I lost it all.. and I just invested without a care in the world (doing due research of course, but not stressing over it that much).

Now that I have an amount which I consider actually substantial, I worry all the time about "the next 90% crash" and stuff, and losing it all.

You seem to be bringing up another point that is different from my own, and accordingly, if you are fearful of a 90% BTC "crash," which would be BTC prices going down to about $2k, then you seem to be overly invested - because I think that each of us should make reasonable efforts to attempt prepare ourselves for a possible 90% crash - even if none of us will really like it, but if we believe in bitcoin, and we have held our bitcoin through 2017's price appreciations, we should have enough value reserves set in order that we are prepared for a 90% correction that would bring us down to about $2k, which is really only mid 2017 price levels.

I personally believe that the odds are currently against a 90% correction, at this time, because I think that BTC prices are likely to going to go up before they go down - however, since bitcoin prices have appreciated so much in the past year, and especially surprisingly in the past 4 months, those recent BTC price appreciations should have allowed any of us a much better preparations than what we had previously had - merely because the BTC price appreciations were so much beyond our expectations.

At least for me, it has been quite surprising how much money is represented by just having had taken out about 11% of the value of my holdings and having those in fiat  - by the time that we were at the $19,666 top I had about 11% of my BTC value in fiat, and then after our 43% price correction, I still seem to have about 9% ready in the event that there is further BTC price crashes from here on out.

Now, I understand if, on the other hand, you did not have very much invested into bitcoin, prior to this year's price appreciation, then you might feel more attached to hanging onto whatever amount of BTC it is that you have invested into bitcoin and in those circumstances you might not have felt that you had been able to cash out enough BTC on the way that the BTC price was going up in order to provide yourself with adequate and sufficient downside price insurance.

Yeah, I don't want such a downside prices to happen, because I am much richer with prices staying higher or going up, and I am inclined to believe that a 90% price correction is not going to happen, yet, but I think that it is absolutely prudent to attempt to prepare for as much as a 90% price correction - even if the odds seem to be a bit against such a magnitude of correction. 

Sure, you may be good enough to prepare for a 70% BTC price correction, but since we had so much BTC price appreciation in the past year and especially in the past 4 months, it may be beneficial to sketch out a plan that prepares you for a 90% correction, just in case.. and really you do not necessarily need to take too much of your BTC holdings (even 10% or less could be enough) in order to prepare for such a possible scenario.

[HairyMaclairy]

Look at the drop in the mem pool when Coinbase stopped sending transactions.

[Peter R]

Why is the price going down?  

Doesn't the entire world want BTC, the money of the future?

Money that you cannot spend, or transfer to a friend, or experiment with, or really do anything with except HODL and make memes about future lambos.  

Lightning Network is coming any day now and then fees will be low and merchant adoption will sky rocket!  

Except that LN doesn't even work in theory and even ignoring that it would still takes years to bootstrap an entirely new network because that's what LN is -- an independent network to bitcoin.

I've had no issues what-so-ever spending Bitcoin in the past several months. Granted, I'm not trying to buy single glasses of wine with block chain transactions either... because I'm not an idiot. I do buy coffee though! Let me explain the process, it's simple. Buy one Amazon gift card for $2000 and then buy enough coffee to last me five years (I don't actually buy it all at once, I like fresh coffee). Transaction fees for five year's worth of coffee... a few bucks. Wow, layers already exist which make spending Bitcoins as easy as spending fiat. Imagine that, I don't need censorship-proof transactions every time I buy coffee... What a revelation! (Also, you can use the gift card for stuff other than coffee and there are lots of other vendors for which you can buy gift cards in case coffee isn't your thing.)

It's a damn shame that you can't intentionally refuse to see that putting every transaction under the sun on a ledger that all full verifying nodes (those that do not want to trust another party) must obtain and keep forever is a terrible, horrible idea. Have you ever tried to run any software which uses a database interacting with the Bitcoin block chain? Probably not, since we only need like what... 3 full nodes worldwide?

Acting like the recent decrease in Bitcoin's price has anything to do with scaling is disingenuous at best. Why is BCH worth less? Why isn't anyone using BCH (I sync a node to convert to BTC during BCH peaks, I see the amount of transactions, it's laughable)? Could someone at least run a bot to make it look like it's being used!  Finally... for the love of all things holy, BCH is supposed to go UP when Bitcoin goes down, not drop even faster... How will I ever convert the rest of this stuff if moves like every other garbage altcoin under the sun?

I'm probably wasting my time here... LN looks amazing, I don't know which articles you've been reading...

Did you keep your BCH, Holliday?

[jojo69]

why did coinbase stop sending transactions?

[Karartma1]

why did coinbase stop sending transactions?

Why don't coinbase guys know how to send txs in batches, that is the real question! (thx Hairy) They are making shit tons of money for the super heavy fees they are asking to people who are buying like if there's no tomorrow.
And yet people believe that if they have coins on that app they are real.
Mindblowing really

[windjc]

Why is the price going down?  

Doesn't the entire world want BTC, the money of the future?

Money that you cannot spend, or transfer to a friend, or experiment with, or really do anything with except HODL and make memes about future lambos.  

Lightning Network is coming any day now and then fees will be low and merchant adoption will sky rocket!  

Except that LN doesn't even work in theory and even ignoring that it would still takes years to bootstrap an entirely new network because that's what LN is -- an independent network to bitcoin.

I've had no issues what-so-ever spending Bitcoin in the past several months. Granted, I'm not trying to buy single glasses of wine with block chain transactions either... because I'm not an idiot. I do buy coffee though! Let me explain the process, it's simple. Buy one Amazon gift card for $2000 and then buy enough coffee to last me five years (I don't actually buy it all at once, I like fresh coffee). Transaction fees for five year's worth of coffee... a few bucks. Wow, layers already exist which make spending Bitcoins as easy as spending fiat. Imagine that, I don't need censorship-proof transactions every time I buy coffee... What a revelation! (Also, you can use the gift card for stuff other than coffee and there are lots of other vendors for which you can buy gift cards in case coffee isn't your thing.)

It's a damn shame that you can't intentionally refuse to see that putting every transaction under the sun on a ledger that all full verifying nodes (those that do not want to trust another party) must obtain and keep forever is a terrible, horrible idea. Have you ever tried to run any software which uses a database interacting with the Bitcoin block chain? Probably not, since we only need like what... 3 full nodes worldwide?

Acting like the recent decrease in Bitcoin's price has anything to do with scaling is disingenuous at best. Why is BCH worth less? Why isn't anyone using BCH (I sync a node to convert to BTC during BCH peaks, I see the amount of transactions, it's laughable)? Could someone at least run a bot to make it look like it's being used!  Finally... for the love of all things holy, BCH is supposed to go UP when Bitcoin goes down, not drop even faster... How will I ever convert the rest of this stuff if moves like every other garbage altcoin under the sun?

I'm probably wasting my time here... LN looks amazing, I don't know which articles you've been reading...

Did you keep your BCH, Holliday?

Are you SERIOUSLY asking why the price is going down? No. No way. You've been around far too many years to ask a real question like that.

So you are just trolling on here. But why? Why is a math guy, a scientist and coder on bitcointalk BITCOIN speculation main thread, trolling?

I mean if Core developers spent their time on r/btc I am sure you would have some choice words for them.

Shouldn't you be busy adding commits to bitcoinunlimited?

[HairyMaclairy]

At the current velocity, Janus will flippen Bitcoin within the next half hour.

[realr0ach]

So you are just trolling on here. But why? Why is a math guy, a scientist and coder on bitcointalk BITCOIN speculation main thread, trolling?

You guys are complete noobs if you think BCH is bitcoin's biggest problem.  Bankers own the majority of ETH IPO, and by their constant market manipulation, you can tell they're always trying to fool people into make believing it's a hedge trade against BTC.  The amount of manipulation that goes into trying to pump Eth is 10x more than that of BTC.  So, while all cryptocurrencies are complete trash compared to physical silver or gold, and the bankers + CIA and other dipshits own huge amounts of all of these coins, their preference is for Eth to win since they own the most of it.

And Vinay "white genocide" Gupta can go get himself 1488'd.

[flynn]

At the current velocity, Janus will flippen Bitcoin within the next half hour.

Warning : there are two faces to this coin.

[Neo_Coin]

So you are just trolling on here. But why? Why is a math guy, a scientist and coder on bitcointalk BITCOIN speculation main thread, trolling?

You guys are complete noobs if you think BCH is bitcoin's biggest problem.  Bankers own the majority of ETH IPO, and by their constant market manipulation, you can tell they're always trying to fool people into make believing it's a hedge trade against BTC.  The amount of manipulation that goes into trying to pump Eth is 10x more than that of BTC.  So, while all cryptocurrencies are complete trash compared to physical silver or gold, and the bankers + CIA and other dipshits own huge amounts of all of these coins, their preference is for Eth to win since they own the most of it.

And Vinay "white genocide" Gupta can go get himself 1488'd.

[flynn]

Look at the drop in the mem pool when Coinbase stopped sending transactions.

Yeah

They should patch that thing on the production nodes written-at-a-tube style for a good laugh.

[Last of the V8s]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVVDsIYJBQ_C7Bh_aI3ZMxQ
Magical Crypto Friends

[Arriemoller]

Guys, i´m afraid i´m jinxing it. Sorry.

I admit, i don´t want bitcoin to go over 20000, because every time bitcoin rises remarkably, media (TV) awakes, and i see more and more countries wanting to ban exchanges and all that. We are a threat to their FIAT-system.
What do we do then ?

The other thing is: i´m not afraid to pay taxes, but how could i possibly explain the thousands of transactions, i made ? For example, i´m constantly lending (funding) some at Finex, thats thousands of transactions. Its not the money, that worries me, it´s the process to cash out.

It really is a nightmare, coming to your door soon !

And don´t tell me we´re here for the ideology, we´re here for the dosh, which still, at least for now, reigns the world.

If you are in Europe, you don't have to worry, you only pay tax when you exit to fiat. If you are in north America you can cash out in the Canadian ATM's.
I'm in it for both the ideology and the cash. If crypto for some reason crashes totally, I'll still mine my Bgold and bide my time. That would actually give the community time to develop a more mature environment with working P to P exchanges, good scaling capability, and everything else we need to be untouchable by governments.

[Zicore47]

Guys, i´m afraid i´m jinxing it. Sorry.

I admit, i don´t want bitcoin to go over 20000, because every time bitcoin rises remarkably, media (TV) awakes, and i see more and more countries wanting to ban exchanges and all that. We are a threat to their FIAT-system.
What do we do then ?

The other thing is: i´m not afraid to pay taxes, but how could i possibly explain the thousands of transactions, i made ? For example, i´m constantly lending (funding) some at Finex, thats thousands of transactions. Its not the money, that worries me, it´s the process to cash out.

It really is a nightmare, coming to your door soon !

And don´t tell me we´re here for the ideology, we´re here for the dosh, which still, at least for now, reigns the world.

If you are in Europe, you don't have to worry, you only pay tax when you exit to fiat. If you are in north America you can cash out in the Canadian ATM's.
I'm in it for both the ideology and the cash. If crypto for some reason crashes totally, I'll still mine my Bgold and bide my time. That would actually give the community time to develop a more mature environment with working P to P exchanges, good scaling capability, and everything else we need to be untouchable by governments.

In Germany you have to pay taxes as soon as you sell your coins and also have profits > 600€, it doesn't matter if you get fiat, another coin or bananas for it.
So it's not only exit to fiat.

[dieselmeister]

In Germany you have to pay taxes as soon as you sell your coins and also have profits > 600€, it doesn't matter if you get fiat, another coin or bananas for it.
So it's not only exit to fiat.

Damned ... your where first +1 ... in germany you pay tax for all things that looks like money or has any value. we as the tax masters of the world. 80% of the books about taxes are about the german tax system.

But one exception, if you hold your cryptos more than a year, you can sold it without pay any taxes. But if you sell this earlier, you have to pay with your own income tax rate. When you earn more than 66.000 Euro a year (in a job or from other things), you have to pay 48% on every cent you earn from selling cryptos.

[BitcoinBunny]

In Germany you have to pay taxes as soon as you sell your coins and also have profits > 600€, it doesn't matter if you get fiat, another coin or bananas for it.
So it's not only exit to fiat.

Damned ... your where first +1 ... in germany you pay tax for all things that looks like money or has any value. we as the tax masters of the world. 80% of the books about taxes are about the german tax system.

But one exception, if you hold your cryptos more than a year, you can sold it without pay any taxes. But if you sell this earlier, you have to pay with your own income tax rate. When you earn more than 66.000 Euro a year (in a job or from other things), you have to pay 48% on every cent you earn from selling cryptos.

48%   

F that shit.

What stops one to "temporarily" emigrate to the UK and only pay 20% capital gains tax when selling?

[dieselmeister]

48%   

F that shit.

What stops one to "temporarily" emigrate to the UK and only pay 20% capital gains tax when selling?

This is quite difficult, because i have a job here where i earn most of my monthly incoming. so it doesn't make sense to migrate to the uk. And i am a HODLER, so i do not pay any taxes on bitcoins
And the tax department can also decided, that your tax dept is here in Germany, ether your are in the uk or some where else. This mean, i get the tax i payed in the uk back and have to pay here more taxes. yeah ... our tax law is very complicated, and the tax departments have a quite lot of power here.

[Phil_S]

Finally above 14000. Let's never dive under that, never ever!