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Question: When will bitcoin reach the top of this bull market (i.e. when will it moon)?
Topped at $13,880 in June - 12 (7.7%)
H2 2019 - 16 (10.3%)
H1 2020 - 29 (18.6%)
H2 2020 - 28 (17.9%)
H1 2021 - 12 (7.7%)
H2 2021 - 31 (19.9%)
H1 2022 - 6 (3.8%)
H2 2022 - 4 (2.6%)
H1 2023 - 0 (0%)
H2 2023 - 3 (1.9%)
2024 or Later - 15 (9.6%)
Total Voters: 156

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21291039 times)
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4rt3m
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June 16, 2018, 12:00:43 AM

It's time to buy!  Anybody know where i can find the lowest fee bitcoin atm in toronto?



https://coinatmradar.com

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June 16, 2018, 12:12:10 AM

(snipped for relevance)

I don't see exchanges, devs and users complaining how flawed Segwit it, nobody lost money ore saw critical errors.  I only see that bullshit in the Bcash camp.

Can you provide me technical arguments/proof why Segwit is 'flawed' ore show it at the Github?

Yes. Fungibility.
What's the issue with fungibility that's so specific to segwit?

Quote
Reliance on miners not to revert to 'anyonecanspend' - an incentive for which only increases over time.
That is, reliance on miners not to try a 51% attack. Does this imply the chain without segwit is invulnerable to 51% attacks?

Besides, any such attack would appear as a fork, which the non-mining nodes would be free to follow or disregard. No substantial change from the pre-segwit state of things, I would say.

Quote
A new ability for miners to fail to validate all portions of blocks.
You mean miners running pre-segwit software that have to skip SW transactions?

Quote
The list goes on.
How?
xhomerx10
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June 16, 2018, 12:14:43 AM

It's time to buy!  Anybody know where i can find the lowest fee bitcoin atm in toronto?



Geez. I always panic the other way. Nerves of steel, you people.
From my experience in the fat city most of your options are around Chinatown. There's a foreign currency exchange on the corner of Spadina and Dundas that buys and sells at what seems like a reasonable premium.

But ask Jimbo. He's the king of the atm ring.

Thanks for the info.  I wish I could find Jimbo's favourite ATM - it seemed to have reasonable fees based on the experiences he shared.
I'm looking for a machine that doesn't want my personal info and I think Jimbo's machine fits that bill if you do less than $3500.

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June 16, 2018, 12:17:13 AM

It's time to buy!  Anybody know where i can find the lowest fee bitcoin atm in toronto?



https://coinatmradar.com



 Thanks man!  I was on this site digging around for 40 minutes tonight while waiting for my daughter at her music lessons... it's hard to find the information I need w.r.t. keeping my personal info private but the rates are displayed nicely Wink  I guess I'm going to have to go and try some of them out.


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June 16, 2018, 12:17:36 AM

Ok, everybody hold your breath, make sure you're gripping something sturdy, and let's hope @BigRekts doesn't start Tweeting again.

Don't like what I'm seeing with this movement into the weekend right now.
My gut feeling (insert standard disclaimer) is that if the weekend was to be all bloody, we'd have seen stronger signs by yesterday. Of course - a swift, ominous move is always possible, but that's unrelated to the weekly cycle. The weekend trend start indicators have been moving back towards Thursdays since at least a few months.
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June 16, 2018, 12:23:49 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), BobLawblaw (1)

Does anyone own a shitcoin?  Tongue
http://doiownashitcoin.com/

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June 16, 2018, 12:46:26 AM

I'm not following the whole USDT drama, to me it's just like another alt/shitcoin, i.e. if anything, people would try to escape into BTC when it crashes. Of course it can take down some exchanges, but if you keep your BTC on exchanges thats the risk that you're taking

It may be unfashionable to think it, but I don't really believe there is one any more. Even if at one point it was money out of thin air, and there's no proof either way, they've likely earned it back now.

It's going to be a forever mystery I reckon that's rolled out every now and then for a quick scare.

Was it you who explained a possible mechanism by which the printers of tether could back it 100% with actual USD? The post ended with something along the lines of "they can't withstand an audit because the order of the transactions would be wrong; not the actual final amounts." Whoever it was, it was brilliant.

Related: I searched (tether, audit, audited, usdt) using the top search field in the regular thread view, and I only got results from 2016 or older. Any hints on how to search this behemoth of a thread?
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June 16, 2018, 12:50:41 AM

It's time to buy!  Anybody know where i can find the lowest fee bitcoin atm in toronto?



Geez. I always panic the other way. Nerves of steel, you people.
From my experience in the fat city most of your options are around Chinatown. There's a foreign currency exchange on the corner of Spadina and Dundas that buys and sells at what seems like a reasonable premium.

But ask Jimbo. He's the king of the atm ring.

Thanks for the info.  I wish I could find Jimbo's favourite ATM - it seemed to have reasonable fees based on the experiences he shared.
I'm looking for a machine that doesn't want my personal info and I think Jimbo's machine fits that bill if you do less than $3500.



The couple I've come across lately require you to stick your finger in a hole. The times they are a-changin'.
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June 16, 2018, 01:01:02 AM

It's time to buy!  Anybody know where i can find the lowest fee bitcoin atm in toronto?



Geez. I always panic the other way. Nerves of steel, you people.
From my experience in the fat city most of your options are around Chinatown. There's a foreign currency exchange on the corner of Spadina and Dundas that buys and sells at what seems like a reasonable premium.

But ask Jimbo. He's the king of the atm ring.

Thanks for the info.  I wish I could find Jimbo's favourite ATM - it seemed to have reasonable fees based on the experiences he shared.
I'm looking for a machine that doesn't want my personal info and I think Jimbo's machine fits that bill if you do less than $3500.



The couple I've come across lately require you to stick your finger in a hole. The times they are a-changin'.

 I'm not averse to sticking a finger or two into a hole but not if it is for the purpose of capturing identifying prints.
There's a Lamassu machine in Port Hope with fees of 1.2% - which is awesome.  I might have to take a road trip.  Can't tell if there are ID requirements or not which boggles my mind.  This info should be easily available for any machine!  Oh well, I'll have to check it out in person.


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June 16, 2018, 01:30:26 AM

It's a fingerprint hole. Surprise! Cry
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June 16, 2018, 02:55:40 AM
Last edit: June 16, 2018, 03:07:02 AM by jbreher

(snipped for relevance)

I don't see exchanges, devs and users complaining how flawed Segwit it, nobody lost money ore saw critical errors.  I only see that bullshit in the Bcash camp.

Can you provide me technical arguments/proof why Segwit is 'flawed' ore show it at the Github?

Yes. Fungibility.
What's the issue with fungibility that's so specific to segwit?

As I posted between there and here, Segwit creates three classes of Bitcoins. Each with distinctly different exposure to security vulnerabilities.  
1) Those that are completely free of any Segwit taint all the way back to their constituent coinbase transactions;
2) Those that are not currently output from a Segwit transaction, but have Segwit taint between here and their constituent coinbase transactions; and
3) Those that are the output of a Segwit transaction.

Quote
Quote
Reliance on miners not to revert to 'anyonecanspend' - an incentive for which only increases over time.
That is, reliance on miners not to try a 51% attack. Does this imply the chain without segwit is invulnerable to 51% attacks?

No. But without Segwit, all miners were able to do with a 51% attack is roll back transactions. They were unable to steal funds. If miners choose to revert to considering Segwit transactions as anyonecanspend transactions, then they can claim every one of the outputs of all those anyonecanspend transactions for themselves. As over time, transactions tainted by Segwit is a monotonically increasing count, the incentive to roll back to Satoshi rules is ever-increasing. And the funny thing is that this would arguably not be stealing. After all, Segwit is said to be compatible, right? All the miners would be doing to claim these funds is to revert to the previous rule set. That's compatible.

Quote
Besides, any such attack would appear as a fork, which the non-mining nodes would be free to follow or disregard. No substantial change from the pre-segwit state of things, I would say.

Quote
A new ability for miners to fail to validate all portions of blocks.
You mean miners running pre-segwit software that have to skip SW transactions?

No. Due to the way the block hash is calculated under Segwit, one can extend a chain atop a block that one does not fully validate. A miner refusing to validate this portion of the block will have a minor benefit in that it can get back to hashing so many milliseconds sooner than one that fully validates. A miner might choose to operate in this manner, believing it unlikely that some other miner might have cheated in this area. If this lax behavior becomes predominant, we could find ourselves with a chain that includes what are invalid blocks by current rules.

Quote
Quote
The list goes on.
How?

Why don't we focus upon these issues first, before moving on?

Note that these are all recognized as attack vectors by pretty much all who have studied the matter. The only real debate is in the probability of these flaws actually ever being invoked.
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June 16, 2018, 03:03:04 AM

I was in Toronto at the beginning of the month. Had a great meal at Hy's downtown. Don't know why I didn't think to look any of y'all up.
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June 16, 2018, 03:35:01 AM
Last edit: June 16, 2018, 05:50:56 AM by realr0ach

Edit: I'm adding this quote from Eric Meltzer of INBlockchain because its a slow day here:

Quote
As a jew, I find the existence of basically unseizable money outside of state control massively comforting. To jews, the state is an unpredictable monster that flips out every century or so. Having the ability to leave without leaving everything behind is key.”

What a joke of a quote.  The Jews always attempt to form a state within a state of their host nation (5th column) and enslave the native inhabitants through usury.  This is why the Jews have been kicked out of every single country they've ever attempted to infilitrate.  

They're not like Italian, Irish, Asian, or any other type of immigrant.  Their goal is not to integrate, it's an evil cult whose imaginary, made up beliefs claim it's their divine right to rule over and enslave all other humans. Allowing Jews in is the same thing as allowing termites to walk into your house on purpose.  They must always be expelled from wherever they attempt to infest.  For the same reason you do not invite the Charles Manson cult into your house, you do not allow the evil Jewish cult in either.

The scumbag Jew in your quote is pulling the typical Jew lie claiming it's IMPOSSIBLE for Jews ever to be in the wrong and if anyone ever does or says anything against them, the Jew is always the victim and it's never possible the Jews is just receiving blowback for his heinous crimes.  There's no such thing as a Jewish "man".  They do not act like men whatsoever.  They all pull this wretched, extremely female-like 'woe is me, I'm a SJW victim' scam while always being the aggresor against everyone else.

Besides, even if you are a religious nutjob who follows everything from scripture, then if Jesus was legit, that makes Christians the real Jews, and these evil Ashkenazi cult members claiming to be Jews but not the anti-christ. That's why they're referred to as "the synagogue of satan" in religious texts.  It would make sense from a religious point of view since many Satanists and feminists claim Satan is actually a woman representing matriarchy and the Jew displays nothing but the worst of female traits (being weak, pathetic, lying, manipulative) with disdain for anything resembling patriarchy.
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June 16, 2018, 03:46:55 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

It's time to buy!  Anybody know where i can find the lowest fee bitcoin atm in toronto?



Geez. I always panic the other way. Nerves of steel, you people.
From my experience in the fat city most of your options are around Chinatown. There's a foreign currency exchange on the corner of Spadina and Dundas that buys and sells at what seems like a reasonable premium.

But ask Jimbo. He's the king of the atm ring.

Thanks for the info.  I wish I could find Jimbo's favourite ATM - it seemed to have reasonable fees based on the experiences he shared.
I'm looking for a machine that doesn't want my personal info and I think Jimbo's machine fits that bill if you do less than $3500.



I think I found it. Try this site. localcoinatm.com

I was there recently and got $6000 out of one machine an hour after I scanned the QR code. The site doesn't say which machines buy or sell, so you'll have to visit them to find out. Some only allow buys, while the bigger ones can do both.

I actually haven't been buying BTC since last year. I only sell. But you guys know I dabble in alts, so that's where I get most of my BTC from. Been surviving on crypto since about 3 years already.
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June 16, 2018, 04:04:16 AM
Last edit: June 16, 2018, 07:15:42 AM by bitserve
Merited by infofront (1)

(snipped for relevance)

I don't see exchanges, devs and users complaining how flawed Segwit it, nobody lost money ore saw critical errors.  I only see that bullshit in the Bcash camp.

Can you provide me technical arguments/proof why Segwit is 'flawed' ore show it at the Github?

Yes. Fungibility.
What's the issue with fungibility that's so specific to segwit?

As I posted between there and here, Segwit creates three classes of Bitcoins. Each with distinctly different exposure to security vulnerabilities.  
1) Those that are completely free of any Segwit taint all the way back to their constituent coinbase transactions;
2) Those that are not currently output from a Segwit transaction, but have Segwit taint between here and their constituent coinbase transactions; and
3) Those that are the output of a Segwit transaction.

Quote
Quote
Reliance on miners not to revert to 'anyonecanspend' - an incentive for which only increases over time.
That is, reliance on miners not to try a 51% attack. Does this imply the chain without segwit is invulnerable to 51% attacks?

No. But without Segwit, all miners were able to do with a 51% attack is roll back transactions. They were unable to steal funds. If miners choose to revert to considering Segwit transactions as anyonecanspend transactions, then they can claim every one of the outputs of all those anyonecanspend transactions for themselves. As over time, transactions tainted by Segwit is a monotonically increasing count, the incentive to roll back to Satoshi rules is ever-increasing. And the funny thing is that this would arguably not be stealing. After all, Segwit is said to be compatible, right? All the miners would be doing to claim these funds is to revert to the previous rule set. That's compatible.



The risk you are mentioning here is somewhat "real" but it is decreasing as more funds get moved to segwit addresses. It was a real concern in the beginning as it would have been a (remote) possibility that miners would do as you say. In fact, even if I believed Segwit was a favourable upgrade I was very cautious to NOT move my funds to Segwit addresses until many months later.

Currently, with so much funds already moved into Segwit addresses IF miners decided to stole any Segwit address this is what would happen:

- A fork between the consensus chain and the stolen one.
- A drop in price to almost zero on the stolen one.
- A considerable drop in price on the consensus chain too.

... And basically a major drop in ALL cryptocurrency market as confidence and trust on the main cryptocurrency and its foundations would be severely harmed.

Or maybe it would just be that noone would give any value to the forked (stolen funds) chain and the crisis would not be as deep... but, in any case, whomever carried out that sort of attack (necessarily a main player in crypto mining) would end in a useless (no value) chain and be economically harmed in every way on its core business.

Also take into account that exchanges can be hit by a 51% attack in the sense of double spending BUT they are not vulnerable to this type of attack. Why? Because their wallet software would NOT acknowledge the "anyonecanspend" spoofed tx's no matter how many hashrate decides to support the rogue chain. (If I am wrong in this point please enlighten me).

So, still a 51% "double spending" attack -while hugely improbable in Bitcoin for many reasons- is a (orders of magnitude) bigger "vulnerability" than a segwit "anyonecanspend" attack right now.
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June 16, 2018, 04:29:12 AM

[snippage ensues]

Related: I searched (tether, audit, audited, usdt) using the top search field in the regular thread view, and I only got results from 2016 or older. Any hints on how to search this behemoth of a thread?

d_eddie, I would use The Goggle, with refined terms. Something like this could help.

Warning! Don't click on links you cannot verify! Mouse over it, and read what it says. 'refined terms' in this case, means using the    site:  parameter. Add the URL, add the desired items.  

Judicious use of +, -, AND, OR, and quotes can trim millions of hits down to a pertinent few.
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June 16, 2018, 07:39:09 AM

(snipped for relevance)

I don't see exchanges, devs and users complaining how flawed Segwit it, nobody lost money ore saw critical errors.  I only see that bullshit in the Bcash camp.

Can you provide me technical arguments/proof why Segwit is 'flawed' ore show it at the Github?

Yes. Fungibility.
What's the issue with fungibility that's so specific to segwit?

As I posted between there and here, Segwit creates three classes of Bitcoins. Each with distinctly different exposure to security vulnerabilities.  
1) Those that are completely free of any Segwit taint all the way back to their constituent coinbase transactions;
2) Those that are not currently output from a Segwit transaction, but have Segwit taint between here and their constituent coinbase transactions; and
3) Those that are the output of a Segwit transaction.

Quote
Quote
Reliance on miners not to revert to 'anyonecanspend' - an incentive for which only increases over time.
That is, reliance on miners not to try a 51% attack. Does this imply the chain without segwit is invulnerable to 51% attacks?

No. But without Segwit, all miners were able to do with a 51% attack is roll back transactions. They were unable to steal funds. If miners choose to revert to considering Segwit transactions as anyonecanspend transactions, then they can claim every one of the outputs of all those anyonecanspend transactions for themselves. As over time, transactions tainted by Segwit is a monotonically increasing count, the incentive to roll back to Satoshi rules is ever-increasing. And the funny thing is that this would arguably not be stealing. After all, Segwit is said to be compatible, right? All the miners would be doing to claim these funds is to revert to the previous rule set. That's compatible.



The risk you are mentioning here is somewhat "real" but it is decreasing as more funds get moved to segwit addresses. It was a real concern in the beginning as it would have been a (remote) possibility that miners would do as you say. In fact, even if I believed Segwit was a favourable upgrade I was very cautious to NOT move my funds to Segwit addresses until many months later.

Currently, with so much funds already moved into Segwit addresses IF miners decided to stole any Segwit address this is what would happen:

- A fork between the consensus chain and the stolen one.
- A drop in price to almost zero on the stolen one.
- A considerable drop in price on the consensus chain too.

... And basically a major drop in ALL cryptocurrency market as confidence and trust on the main cryptocurrency and its foundations would be severely harmed.

Or maybe it would just be that noone would give any value to the forked (stolen funds) chain and the crisis would not be as deep... but, in any case, whomever carried out that sort of attack (necessarily a main player in crypto mining) would end in a useless (no value) chain and be economically harmed in every way on its core business.

Also take into account that exchanges can be hit by a 51% attack in the sense of double spending BUT they are not vulnerable to this type of attack. Why? Because their wallet software would NOT acknowledge the "anyonecanspend" spoofed tx's no matter how many hashrate decides to support the rogue chain. (If I am wrong in this point please enlighten me).

So, still a 51% "double spending" attack -while hugely improbable in Bitcoin for many reasons- is a (orders of magnitude) bigger "vulnerability" than a segwit "anyonecanspend" attack right now.


Thanks both, interesting. Now I remember why I waited before using SegWit like addresses.
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June 16, 2018, 08:22:51 AM
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(snipped for relevance)

I don't see exchanges, devs and users complaining how flawed Segwit it, nobody lost money ore saw critical errors.  I only see that bullshit in the Bcash camp.

Can you provide me technical arguments/proof why Segwit is 'flawed' ore show it at the Github?

Yes. Fungibility.
What's the issue with fungibility that's so specific to segwit?

As I posted between there and here, Segwit creates three classes of Bitcoins. Each with distinctly different exposure to security vulnerabilities. 
1) Those that are completely free of any Segwit taint all the way back to their constituent coinbase transactions;
2) Those that are not currently output from a Segwit transaction, but have Segwit taint between here and their constituent coinbase transactions; and
3) Those that are the output of a Segwit transaction.


Get the fuck out of here with your BIG BLOCKER distraction talking points - now trying to pervert the concept of fungibility.

Just because a coin is being used in a specific way that does not make such coin more or less fungible than if such coin is used in another way.

The concept of fungibility goes to a kind of blacklisting of coins that cause some coins to be less spendible than others, and there is no fucking blacklisting going on through segwit or through lightning network...

So once again.. get the fuck out of here with your nonsensical misleading assertions.





Why don't we focus upon these issues first, before moving on? Note that these are all recognized as attack vectors by all who have studied the matter. The only controversy is in the probability of these flaws actually ever being invoked.

The primary attack vectors on bitcoin have been bcashers and big blocker nutjobs.  Segwit was adopted through consensus mechanisms, and lightning network is voluntarily being worked upon in a quasi-test phase, and surely utilizing the features of segwit in order to be more powerful... There seems to be a lot of consensus behind building upon lightning network that will likely be voluntary for a considerable amount of time, that will likely become bigger and BIGGER as adoption increases and as it continues testing and working out any possible bugs.  Sure some BIG BLOCKER nutjobs are going to continue to exaggerate negative speculation, like you seem to be doing, and to spread disinformation about supposed catastrophes of lightning network in order to pump their stupid-ass and largely non-substantiated negative talking points.
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June 16, 2018, 08:31:09 AM

Quote
What is intrigueing me for some time already is the name of the ceo of finexed and Tether : "Van De Velde". That is so Flemish as can be, so I wonder... .


I actually tought he was Dutch.

Price seems to have stopped climbing...stabilizing? Huh
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BTFD, on to 15K a coin !!!!


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June 16, 2018, 09:34:46 AM

WHO would be ready for weeks and weeks of green dildo's ?? ?? Huh
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