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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 656678 times)
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ranlo
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August 31, 2017, 04:58:31 PM
 #7041

I am 100% on board with the interest idea, and think it would go a long way towards promoting holding the coins. Could even implement one of those "must hold x days" rules to make it more effective.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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September 01, 2017, 12:32:42 PM
 #7042

Guys I have a spare resources on my hosting server. I would like to offer some of those resources to the DevCoin project if needed.
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September 05, 2017, 01:00:52 PM
 #7043

I think wiser hit the nail on the head with his point #4 above. From reading through this thread and trying to get an understanding of where some of the issues lie it's clear to me that for this coin to survive one of the main things that need to happen is to switch this coin to Proof of Stake with a fair interest rate, eliminating the need for anyone to buy back Devcoin. Create a new wallet and give people a grace period to transition over to the new wallet, after that burn the old coins. Get the community involved in resurrecting this coin in the same way Dimecoin and Embercoin has, encouraging people to trade the coin and create liquidity

Agree. This makes sense and covers most if not all the issues at hand.

"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert (banker)  saying it can’t be done." Peter Ustinov
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September 07, 2017, 12:58:30 AM
 #7044

Hi guys, I read a few recent pages of this thread but can't seem to find out which exchange devcoin is listed on. There must be at least one because CoinGecko has a price for it. Thanks for your help.

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September 07, 2017, 01:21:54 AM
 #7045

Hi guys, I read a few recent pages of this thread but can't seem to find out which exchange devcoin is listed on. There must be at least one because CoinGecko has a price for it. Thanks for your help.

Here you go! https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/devcoin/#markets

"The Internet unshackled information, Satoshi Nakamoto unshackled money. And money makes the world go round."
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September 11, 2017, 09:50:23 PM
 #7046

The Discussion is taking too long

TIME FOR A BACKUP PLAN

While I still believe that Devcoin still has enough community support for "resurrecting", it looks to me that people is waiting for real action rather than more endless discussion. Back to the basics:

"Talk is cheap... Code is gold!"

Let's code some stuff guys!

So, I'm planning to push some stuff to the official repo so you guys can play with it and to provide feedback hands-on.

If you guys want to push some code upstream, go ahead!

This is our playground from now on: http://github.com/coinzen/devcoin/

Let's move convert this discussion into Pull Requests!

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September 11, 2017, 10:08:31 PM
 #7047

Please make a Windows wallet so I can play with it. I cannot code that well (and GitHub is still a mystery to me) so I cannot be much of service in terms of coding.

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September 13, 2017, 07:33:47 AM
 #7048

The Discussion is taking too long

TIME FOR A BACKUP PLAN

While I still believe that Devcoin still has enough community support for "resurrecting", it looks to me that people is waiting for real action rather than more endless discussion. Back to the basics:

"Talk is cheap... Code is gold!"

Let's code some stuff guys!

So, I'm planning to push some stuff to the official repo so you guys can play with it and to provide feedback hands-on.

If you guys want to push some code upstream, go ahead!

This is our playground from now on: http://github.com/coinzen/devcoin/

Let's move convert this discussion into Pull Requests!
just dont play on the master branch.

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BTC/DVC/TRC/FRC: 1K1773RbXRZVRQSSXe9N6N2MUFERvrdu6y ANC/XPM AK1773RTmRKtvbKBCrUu95UQg5iegrqyeA NMC: NK1773Rzv8b4ugmCgX789PbjewA9fL9Dy1 LTC: LKi773RBuPepQH8E6Zb1ponoCvgbU7hHmd EMC: EK1773RxUes1HX1YAGMZ1xVYBBRUCqfDoF BQC: bK1773R1APJz4yTgRkmdKQhjhiMyQpJgfN
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September 13, 2017, 10:25:48 PM
 #7049

The Discussion is taking too long

TIME FOR A BACKUP PLAN

While I still believe that Devcoin still has enough community support for "resurrecting", it looks to me that people is waiting for real action rather than more endless discussion. Back to the basics:

"Talk is cheap... Code is gold!"

Let's code some stuff guys!

So, I'm planning to push some stuff to the official repo so you guys can play with it and to provide feedback hands-on.

If you guys want to push some code upstream, go ahead!

This is our playground from now on: http://github.com/coinzen/devcoin/

Let's move convert this discussion into Pull Requests!

That sounds like a good move. Can you periodically post updates here on how the coding is going, for those of us who don't code?

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September 21, 2017, 10:22:39 AM
 #7050

Are you lot aware of the panoply of domains this project has had sitting around for years waiting to be deployed?

I really think that instead of throwing around all kinds of F.U.D. about how the coin is broken and so on, you would do better to actually make proper use of the damn coin the way it actually is.

All this moaning and screwing around has served to keep delaying and delaying and delaying the deployment of all the cool stuff we have sitting in the wings.

For example all the problems with the Wiki make the idea of deplying the various special-focus Wikis we have long had domains ready for seem like hmm hmm maybe just not yet, let them get the general-purpose no-specific-focus Wiki working smoothly first before expanding into the whole panoply of specialised-topic Wikis.

We have a perfectly good coin that works just fine, we the original developers are still right here, still waiting for the folks who insisted they needed to take control of various of its domains, run its wiki and so on to actually demonstrate that they are in fact able to perform those tasks adequately.

By the way regarding the current Wiki, is there some reason why we cannot deploy Google Adsense ads on it? Preferably big graphic banners that pey per exposure rather than per click?

I am thinking of setting up all our domains with webservers, if only with placeholder pages explaining what kinds of things we had had in mind for each domain, and since one of our biggest problems is too many shares being allocated to folks who dump the coins instead of to folks who are tying the coins up into various projects designed to absorb and retain coins, maybe it would be a great idea to assign a share per such domain toward hosting and admin, or even a share toward hosting and an additional share toward administrative expenses?

Also maybe it would be a good idea to enumerate and describe some of the projects that aim to tie up coins, create "Corps" out of them, and assign each such "Corp" a share toward administrative costs?

I am also re-visiting the idea of insisting upon actual DeVCoins in payment for various things, especially recurring annual things, that are denominated in DeVCoins, instead of flexibly offering to accept "equivalent value" ( at current exchange rates such as those shown at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc ) in various other coins and assets, to force players to have to resort to some form of exchange to pay those recurring fees and thus be more likely to impact the actual exchange-rates.

I think there are something like two billion devcoins minted each year, with one thousand players an annual fee of two million DeVCoins per player would consume all of that. with only one hundred players it would take an annual fee of twenty million to do so.

You have to have an, or the, entire economy in mind; you need "money sinks" equal to the amount of money being minted if you are to keep MUDflation from running away with itself.


Maybe it is time to make the authorship shares of the Wiki be shares of the DeVCoins that the advertising on the Wiki manages to bring in? Have it buy DeVCoins with the advertising revenue as was originally intended but also give the authors shares only of that revenue?

Bring back to mind yet again that originally one share was intended to be what one person who as a matter of lifestyle puts in typically ten hours per week of coding work was to receive.

How many thousands of words should an author be able to post in a forty-hour month of writing on the Wiki?

Is it not a bit ridiculous to expect forty hours of writing to result in only one thousand words?

How many words SHOULD we really require of authors per forty hours (one share) of writing?

Meanwhile, I am continuing to build up the buy-side of the DVC/LTC orderbook...

-MarkM-

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September 25, 2017, 08:10:29 AM
 #7051

I have started to strengthen the DVC/LTC order-book, but of course to strengthen the buy-side (buying DVC, using LTC) involves taking "real wealth" and converting it in LTC with which to place "buy DVC" orders.

Since there are many other things I can do "real wealth", it naturally occurs to me to wonder what exactly I am buying by buying DVC.

Once upon a time buying DVC used to mean supporting the development of Free, Open-Source software.

Specifically, the Free Open Source Software I was interested in was certain cryptocoins and certain games and certain tools useful or potentially useful for integrating cryptocoins and crypto-assets with games.

Back in those days everything seemed fine, we had a number of deployable multi-player-game systems, an endless budget (shares of DVC) with which to commission any code changes the games might need in order to better integrate with one-another and with the backdrop of cryptocoins and crypto-assets linking them all together into one overarching multiverse economy, wow what could possibly go wrong?

One of the thiongs that went wrong, it seems is suddenly the development budget, that is to say, the shares of minted DVC, suddenly got diverted awat from software development into the development of prose (writing, written material); and furthermore not specifically prose designed to enhance the economy of the multiverse underdevelopment but seemingly mostly prose that did not even make any mention of the multiverse, so that all this massive collection of prose did not even seem to effectively promote the economy of the multiverse at all, instead it chopped the whole thing off from its root, which had been free open source software.

We were not even designing whole new systems from scratch, but sensibly and economically taking already-existing software systems requiring minimal modification to link them all together into one larger multiverse and in fact mostly being able to work together to build that multiverse without even absolutely having to change the code at all, provided human labour could be used to perform the linkage tasks that ideally would eventually be handled in code.

So as I look into adding more and more LTC to the buy-side of the DVC/LTC market, I find myself asking just how much of the minted DVC nowadays actually goes to software developers and to bounties for making the needed changes to existing software to better support the multiversial economy we are building, as compared to how much is being frittered away on unrelated writings, writings that are not part and parcel of documenting and marketing the multiverse that we are building?

Maybe it would be useful to allocate some bounties for the kinds of articles that we probably need for easing the introduction of people into our multiverse?

Maybe articles by new players describing by what route they chose to enter the multiverse, what choices they perceived to be available to them, which they actually chose and why, how theyt went about whatever they did go about and so on?

It was kind of assumed that since the game provided an endless wealth of things to write about, players would be the primary contributors to Devtome, basically creating an ever growing wealth of documentation about the game and how it has been played any how it could be played any whether this that or the other approach to play seemed better or worse than verious other approaches and so on and so forth, doubtless with somewhat propagandistic slants making one's own guild or nation or whatever sound like a better one to team up with than its competitors and so on to add spice to the narratives.

In addition to working on obtaining LTC with which to build up the DVC/LTC buy side order-book I have been working on migrating the parts of the multiverse's economy that has been residing in the Digitalis Open Transactions Server all these years to the HORIZON platform ( see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2197968.0 ).

This is all part of my lifestyle of "devotes typically 10 hours or more per week to the development of free open source software" that earns me one share of the minted DeVCoins. It seems kind of insane that anyone other than maybe Stephen King or the like should be earning an entire share of the minted DeVCoin just for pasting 1000 words to the Wiki, why the heck would anyone ever waste time creating software when they can instead write thousands of words about how much more coins they earn simply writing about why they cannot afford time to spend creating software compared to simply writing about doing so or, really, writing about any darn thing that crosses their mind?

-MarkM-

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September 25, 2017, 08:17:17 AM
 #7052

I have started to strengthen the DVC/LTC order-book, but of course to strengthen the buy-side (buying DVC, using LTC) involves taking "real wealth" and converting it in LTC with which to place "buy DVC" orders.

Since there are many other things I can do "real wealth", it naturally occurs to me to wonder what exactly I am buying by buying DVC.

Once upon a time buying DVC used to mean supporting the development of Free, Open-Source software.

Specifically, the Free Open Source Software I was interested in was certain cryptocoins and certain games and certain tools useful or potentially useful for integrating cryptocoins and crypto-assets with games.

Back in those days everything seemed fine, we had a number of deployable multi-player-game systems, an endless budget (shares of DVC) with which to commission any code changes the games might need in order to better integrate with one-another and with the backdrop of cryptocoins and crypto-assets linking them all together into one overarching multiverse economy, wow what could possibly go wrong?

One of the thiongs that went wrong, it seems is suddenly the development budget, that is to say, the shares of minted DVC, suddenly got diverted awat from software development into the development of prose (writing, written material); and furthermore not specifically prose designed to enhance the economy of the multiverse underdevelopment but seemingly mostly prose that did not even make any mention of the multiverse, so that all this massive collection of prose did not even seem to effectively promote the economy of the multiverse at all, instead it chopped the whole thing off from its root, which had been free open source software.

We were not even designing whole new systems from scratch, but sensibly and economically taking already-existing software systems requiring minimal modification to link them altogether into one larger multiverse and in fact mostly being able to work together to build that multiverse without even absoluitely having to change the code at all, provided human labour could be used to perform the linkage tasks that ideally would eventually be handled in code.

So as I look into adding more and more LTC to the buy-side of the DVC/LTC market, I find myself asking just how much of the minted DVC nowadays actually goes to software developers and to bounties for making the needed changes to existing software to better support the multiversial economy we are building, as compared to how much is being frittered away on unrelated writings, writings that are not part and parcel of documenting and marketing the multiverse that we are building?

Maybe it would be useful to allocate some bounties for the kinds of articles that we probably need for easing the introduction of people into our multiverse?

Maybe articles by new players describing by what route they chose to enter the multiverse, what choices they perceived to be available to them, which they actually chose and why, how theyt went about whatever they did go about and so on?

It was kind of assumed that since the game provided an endless wealth of things to write about, players would be the primary contributors to Devtome, basically creating an ever growing wealth of documentation about the game and how it has been played any how it could be played any whether this that or the other approach to play seemed better or worse than verious other approaches and so on and so forth, doubtless with somewhat propagandistic slants making one's own guild or nation or whatever sound like a better one to team up with than its competitors and so on to add spice to the narratives.

-MarkM-


Gotta be honest. I have tried to get into the game a few times. It's just not user-friendly enough. It's confusing and somewhat convoluted. I think that's why it's not really catching on -- learning how to even get in the game and do anything is a job in and of itself. That said, I love the idea of a game backing DVC. But it has to be easy enough that passive players can dig in.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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September 25, 2017, 08:37:19 AM
 #7053

Gotta be honest. I have tried to get into the game a few times. It's just not user-friendly enough. It's confusing and somewhat convoluted. I think that's why it's not really catching on -- learning how to even get in the game and do anything is a job in and of itself. That said, I love the idea of a game backing DVC. But it has to be easy enough that passive players can dig in.

Maybe that is where writing could help. Someone could write about their explorations so far, the steps they took and where they led etc.

It does not help that the financial base under it all has kept being pulled out from under it, or even when not the finances the actual servers as when the three third-party servers that were serving as dvcstable01, dvcstable02 and dvcstable06 dot dvcnode.org all went offline due to the hosting company turning out, after all that time, to be massive scammers.

The Battle for Wesnoth modules that educate players about the game (being as how BfW is basically a computer-aided-instruction program with battle scenes interleaved to get the players personally involved in the histories they are reading by attempting to re-enact them) have always been online of course, but with the passage of time I would not be surprised if we have again reached a point where the mainline release of BfW is a newer version so that until we yet again update the modules to match the latest version folks would have to use an old, legacy version of BFW to play the modules.

Possibly the simplest way to initially get one's feet wet is the two-dimensional tile-based interface, "Crossfire RPG", which is maybe retro enough that pretty much anyone can probably manage to work with it although it does require graphics and probably would not work well on a cellphone or tiny tablet.

That is still the only free-as-in-beer way in, and so is vulnerable to account-spamming and character-spamming and, by account and character spamming, the creating out of nothing of in-game resources such as food, clothing, tools and even money and/or valuables. So it necessarily tries to keep the "wealth" on a small scale. Its currency therefore does not appear in the HORIZON system until the coin known as "Amberium", which has a lot of buying-power in the Crossfire RPG system but whose value out in the multiverse at large has still to be determined, presumably by market forces.

The main potential code-modification wanted for the Crossfire RPG code is to fix the support for permadeath.

When playing e.g. Dungeons and Dragons or the like live on the tabletop with players miniatures pencil and paper and so on in one's livingroom one typically is in permadeath mode, which gives a real RPG flavour that is lacking in typical videogames where instead of actually dying, possibly being able to be resurrected if such technology or magick is available, players simply re-appear at their last save point or in Crossfire RPG's case, at their designated "savebed". The code does have permadeath, and we use it, but there is a glitch that is very important economically in that guild memberships bank accounts and even one's corpse that is sitting where one died waiting potentially for resurrection are all tied to the character-name but the character-creation routines do not prevent the creation of a character whose name is the same as some other dead character, so if when you die an opponent managed to create themselves a character of that same name before you do they inherit your memberships, your bank accounts, and even your corpse with all its skills and experience and such. That is a potentially very serious problem that really needs to be fixed!

Arguably it simply adds zest to character-killing as if you kill someone's character there is a chance you will be faster at re-using the character-name than they are, but this is not an intended effect just a side-effect of the permadeath code not having been fully followed-through.

The mainline developers of Crossfire RPG do not actually favour permadeath so are actually maybe more likely to remove it than to tidy up its loose ends, so this is something where a bounty would maybe be very useful. If we can make DVC bounties actually worth something that is. Smiley

P.S. In a way it is not just one game supporting DeVCoin, it is every actually working free open source multi-player online game codebase we can find and even a lot of work over the years on trying to fix some that were not really working when we first came across them! Smiley

-MarkM-

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September 26, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
 #7054

This is all part of my lifestyle of "devotes typically 10 hours or more per week to the development of free open source software" that earns me one share of the minted DeVCoins. It seems kind of insane that anyone other than maybe Stephen King or the like should be earning an entire share of the minted DeVCoin just for pasting 1000 words to the Wiki, why the heck would anyone ever waste time creating software when they can instead write thousands of words about how much more coins they earn simply writing about why they cannot afford time to spend creating software compared to simply writing about doing so or, really, writing about any darn thing that crosses their mind?

-MarkM-

i never understood what "writers" have to do with DEVcoin, ie development. once that took off, i lost interest in devcoin just like other devs. a revert is needed.

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BTC/DVC/TRC/FRC: 1K1773RbXRZVRQSSXe9N6N2MUFERvrdu6y ANC/XPM AK1773RTmRKtvbKBCrUu95UQg5iegrqyeA NMC: NK1773Rzv8b4ugmCgX789PbjewA9fL9Dy1 LTC: LKi773RBuPepQH8E6Zb1ponoCvgbU7hHmd EMC: EK1773RxUes1HX1YAGMZ1xVYBBRUCqfDoF BQC: bK1773R1APJz4yTgRkmdKQhjhiMyQpJgfN
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September 27, 2017, 04:07:54 AM
 #7055

I agree that it is hard to how random writings are useful to open source development; music and graphics I can see using them in applications, as mood music for games or images both for use as units and terrain features and to set scenes; but random writings? I am not sure even how best to categorise them to make them useful to someone writing an application, though maybe if you could search for things like "descriptions of shifty-looking characters", "descriptions of furtive, fearful peasants", "anecdotes a person in a tavent might tell to lead in to a quest for the players" and such someone could find uses for such items of text. Though maybe by the time you have done describing what you are looking for you have pretty much already just written it?

Even for music and graphics there have historically been problems with artists seemingly not grasping the concept of open source, I think it would be great to use DeVCoin to try to create truly open source music for example, where we start with open source simulators for simulating instruments and noises, then add ever increasing libraries of open source instruments for those open source instrument-playing programs, and open source mixing instructions for mixing their outputs, so that when we finally include actual recordings of music we can include their source code as in these are the inputs and code that was used to create this recording.

Similarly for graphics, often artists use several layers of stuff in high resolution, or even 3-D models, then snippet out individual images resulting from those components, and do not release the components just specifical shots of specific configurations of them from specific angles at specific resolutions, whose source would obviously be all those components and the recipe for combining them and lining up the shot...

Though we could surely use sets of counters type images one could use wit existing or yet to be built open source games. Heck look at the Galactic Ruleset for Freeciv for example, how it has to re-use images of older-tech units because of an apparent lack of libraries of unit counters useful for Freeciv...

-MarkM-

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weisoq
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September 27, 2017, 10:26:09 AM
 #7056

i never understood what "writers" have to do with DEVcoin, ie development. once that took off, i lost interest in devcoin just like other devs. a revert is needed.
I thought devtome was a stepping stone and/or to be one element of many.
The problem is 'writers' became more numerous than devs, yet most is garbage in terms of broad utility (I'm not a dev, have written so maybe garbage includes me).

Earn Devcoins by Writing | Devcoin Video
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October 05, 2017, 06:13:36 PM
 #7057

Hi everyone, I came to this thread after googling about similar projects to the one we are working on.
As I understood from the previous posts I read, there is a very active community for this coin but unfortunately after 4 years from the introduction still few results.
I would like to propose to join our efforts and our ideas to create a new project together.
We bring listing to an exchange from day 1 and new features.
If you are interested please drop me a PM.
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October 06, 2017, 09:20:48 PM
 #7058

If the team that wants to takeover this coin are good in their areas then it should not be a problem.

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October 08, 2017, 03:45:56 AM
 #7059

i never understood what "writers" have to do with DEVcoin, ie development. once that took off, i lost interest in devcoin just like other devs. a revert is needed.
I thought devtome was a stepping stone and/or to be one element of many.
The problem is 'writers' became more numerous than devs, yet most is garbage in terms of broad utility (I'm not a dev, have written so maybe garbage includes me).

Devcoin started by funding software developers, then devtome was made. Most of those software developers ignored devcoin, as far as I know only develCuy and Emfox came to devcoin from software funding. Most administrators came from writers, because there were far more interested writers.

Devtome was supposed to make money from advertising, which would of payed for other projects, but the advertising revenues turned out to be insignificant. I expected advertisers to pay for many ads on devtome because there was so much content, but I was wrong.

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October 08, 2017, 04:03:48 AM
 #7060

In a message, Mark told me we should get back to supporting free open source software. I agree that we should fund more software, I suggest that devcoin fund the active projects on the bitcoin accepting open source project list:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Donation-accepting_organizations_and_projects#Open_source

A while back we sent messages to open source software projects, offering them funding, and they ignored us. However, since devcoin addresses are the same format as bitcoin addresses, we can fund them without any help or even acknowledgement from them. This would be done by adding them to the devcoin share list. This would reduce the number of devcoins being sent to everyone else. Since many of the projects wouldn't even know that they were being funded, there would be fewer devcoins sold, so the value being sold would be similar divided by fewer coins, so the price per devcoin might be slightly higher than what it otherwise would of been.

Are there any objections to funding those projects?

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